Wyoming G&F, how de we get a voice as NR's?

[Kodiak06]

We didn’t kill a youth cow in fall of ‘22, but we still had a great hunt and the folks in WY treated us well.

In Iowa, wealthy NR, NR influencers, NR celebrities, and other NR types have been trying to exploit trophy whitetail hunting opportunities for at least 20 years. I don’t want these folks influencing herd management here, and conversely I don’t feel entitled to influence management out West. If you feel that strongly about hunting consistently in WY you can always suck it up and move out there.

EDIT: I forgot to mention how blessed I feel to have guaranteed otc tags as an Iowa resident. I think it’s a shame that residents in some states out west don’t have the same opportunity. Giving a NR a tag when a R doesn’t draw one just doesn’t seem right.

I see your frustration but, if there's "public" land to hunt in Ks it's only right to hand out some NR tags. Not sure about Ks but in Idaho NR dump almost as much money into the F&G pot as residents

 

[TaperPin]

I am curious if anyone else is confused about the new regs (and costs) as they relate to the goals of the WYG&F.
As I understand it the state of Wyoming has created a 3 zone program for NR general tags (only NR) for the purposes of managing elk numbers to better align with biologists goals of individual herds. I've listened to many of the task force meetings and it doesn't seem that the final results, 3 zones, are as effective as the previously discussed 12 or so zones built around herds that consider migration and wintering areas. I would think having more general zones, like mule deer would have a better impact on true management of the herds?
One other issue that the TF looked at /discussed was that residents loudly complain about crowded hunting areas because of NR hunters and not being able to get LE tags because of NR hunters. I haven't seen any proposed solutions to this growing problem.
We as NR hunters pay 26 to 40 times more for a tag, when we win the lottery than do residents who have over the counter options and multiple tags options a year ?
It's very frustrating that all we can do it seems is watch as the state takes it out on the NR.
How long before all states have similar policies ?
Any constructive comments ?

I can appreciate how frustrating it must be, but being born and raised in Wyoming, it’s safe to say the average voting resident doesn’t care about NR hunters, even dislikes them. Residents see NR’s as a necessary evil - your $$ are important, so your presence is tolerated. Not saying it’s right or wrong, that’s just the way it is.

The groups in Wyoming that do like NR hunters are the outfitter’s association, which is quite strong politically, and the economic development/tourism groups. Wyoming also has a long history of supporting tourism at the state level, so there is that voice on your side. Unlike most states, Wyoming has a very good system in place to track NR public reaction and the impact to visitation do to issues such as this as they come out. If NR hunters were picketing the capital, burning bras, and gluing their hands to the pavement so it made national news and fewer people in general were requesting tourism guides, you might get more sympathy from the state. However, If a governor or senators feel the heat from resident hunters, and everyone hunts, there is no incentive to do anything other than protect residents as much as possible.

 

[tdhanses]

Wy has always sold more than 7250 Elk licenses. Last I saw was almost 13,000. The 7250 was full price, in the initial draw.

Thanks, but still that is a tiny number of tags.

 

[GrumpyHiker]

Has anyone tried throwing a tantrum and fussing about how WY towns wouldn’t survive without their $200 in gas and snacks once a year? I bet that will open some eyes and ears.

 

[MattB]

IMO being a non-resident and having a voice in state politics are mutually exclusive concepts.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I see your frustration but, if there's "public" land to hunt in Ks it's only right to hand out some NR tags. Not sure about Ks but in Idaho NR dump almost as much money into the F&G pot as residents

That may be, but you have a choice in what states you apply for tags. IMO, all things aren't equal when it comes to big game hunting, and R should always be priority and have a reasonable advantage over NR for general tags. For the more expensive LE tags, I could see NR getting additional priority if willing to spend double or triple.

 

[Kodiak06]

That may be, but you have a choice in what states you apply for tags. IMO, all things aren't equal when it comes to big game hunting, and R should always be priority and have a reasonable advantage over NR for general tags. For the more expensive LE tags, I could see NR getting additional priority if willing to spend double or triple.

Everyone has a choice to what states they apply BUT, if there's public property there (national forest and such) they have the same rights to hunt as anyone else. Whether or not it's limited tags is up to the state

 

[Jethro]

Has anyone tried throwing a tantrum and fussing about how WY towns wouldn’t survive without their $200 in gas and snacks once a year? I bet that will open some eyes and ears.

E/O week

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Everyone has a choice to what states they apply BUT, if there's public property there (national forest and such) they have the same rights to hunt as anyone else. Whether or not it's limited tags is up to the state

Not exactly sure what your point is on this one.

• The states own and manage the wildlife including big game
• The states determine herd management
• Residents pay the same federal taxes NR do and also local option sales taxes, property taxes, state road taxes, etc...
• Residents are also the FULL TIME stewards of these lands 365 days per year, while NR hunters and tourists stop by for few days or couple weeks and then leave

Based on all of these points, IMO, for some NR to think they are entitled to the same opportunities as residents is a very Gen Z/Millenial point of view. Hunting and tag allocation are not subject to DEI initiatives.

 

[jmez]

This isn't difficult. Want the same benefits as a WY resident, move to Wyoming. Can't do that because of family, job, scared, etc etc etc. Well then you don't get the benefits of a WY resident. You don't get to "have your cake, and eat it too."

Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2023 using Tapatalk

 

[jpmulk]

I gotta say. I don’t think people who don’t live in the state should get a voice on how game is managed. NR hunting is a gift.

Kinda like how people who don’t hunt or live in the west should not get a voice on restricting wolf and bear hunting.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

This isn't difficult. Want the same benefits as a WY resident, move to Wyoming. Can't do that because of family, job, scared, etc etc etc. Well then you don't get the benefits of a WY resident. You don't get to "have your cake, and eat it too."

Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2023 using Tapatalk

^^^ This right here

 

[Kodiak06]

Not exactly sure what your point is on this one.

• The states own and manage the wildlife including big game
• The states determine herd management
• Residents pay the same federal taxes NR do and also local option sales taxes, state road taxes, etc...
• Residents are also the FULL TIME stewards of these lands 365 days per year, while NR hunters and tourists stop by for few days or couple weeks and then leave

Based on all of these points, IMO, for some NR to think they are entitled to the same opportunities as residents is a very Gen Z/Millenial point of view. Hunting and tag allocation are not subject to DEI initiatives.

My point is you cannot prevent non-res from hunting as long as there's public land lol. Are non-residents allowed the same number of tags as residents in Kansas? I doubt it... That would mean non-res do not have the same entitlement. It would be plain stupid if each state tried to boot non-res hunters, especially from a financial standpoint. Most people that complain hunt public property which is pretty funny.
Couple of your points simplified
* the State does own the animals, not the residents.
*the state determines the herds not the residents
* WE ALL pay Federal taxes. Those state and local taxes do not go to F&G and are irrelevant
*99% of residents do absolutely nothing as far as stewardship towards the lands.

If you were in Missouri it would be a different discussion, there's pretty much no public land there but, non-res can still hunt... Gen x BTW I think complaining as often most residents do is more in line with the soft thinking of the generations you mentioned.

 

[Kodiak06]

I gotta say. I don’t think people who don’t live in the state should get a voice on how game is managed. NR hunting is a gift.

Kinda like how people who don’t hunt or live in the west should not get a voice on restricting wolf and bear hunting.

Exactly, but they must use common sense and know that there will be non-res tags and NRs should know that tags being limited is just part of the game. The number of tags being questioned is much like other states...

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

* WE ALL pay Federal taxes. Those state and local taxes do not go to F&G and are irrelevant
*99% of residents do absolutely nothing as far as stewardship towards the lands.

If you were in Missouri it would be a different discussion, there's pretty much no public land there but, non-res can still

Disagree with you wholeheartedly on these two points and pretty sure you just offended a large number of folks with this post.

• Who do you think pays for the state roads and infrastructure that gets NR to those federal lands?
• Who do you think patronizes and keeps the lights on 365 days a year in the businesses that NR use for a few days/weeks every year?

I'm not in KS or MO. I live in IA where there is even less public land.

 

[Marbles]

I suspect many complaints of residents are miss placed.

When I lived in Ketchikan, POW residents always complained that it was Ketchikan hunters coming over on the ferry that caused problems and did the illegal stuff.

A trooper said 98% (take my memory from a conversation years ago with a grain of salt) of all hunting crimes he investigated on POW were committed by POW residents.

In 2023 84% of Wyoming elk tags were for residents. I doubt 16% causes all the problems. Fixing perception, especially when people are emotionally invested in that perception to avoid the hard edges of reality, is a pipe dream in todays America (and likely has been for all of mankind for all of history).

 

[ScreamingPotato]

I love Wyoming, almost moved there but couldn't leave the coast... just love the coast a little more I guess. NR's are just whores for money, as it should be really. If you don't like what any Western state does to manage their wildlife we NR's have the option to just go somewhere else to hunt. I think it's silly to think we'd have a voice in the management, yeah we're hunters so we're concerned about wildlife but it's not really our place, just like some guy from Florida or Colorado doesn't have a say in Texas wildlife.

 

[Kodiak06]

Disagree with you wholeheartedly on these two points and pretty sure you just offended a large number of folks with this post.

• Who do you think pays for the state roads and infrastructure that gets NR to those federal lands?
• Who do you think patronizes and keeps the lights on 365 days a year in the businesses that NR use for a few days/weeks every year?

I'm not in KS or MO. I live in IA where there is even less public land.

you can try to spin it anyway ya want but those hwy funds, taxes and other junk have absolutely nothing to do with hunting or monies to F&G. Ya said the magic word though "PUBLIC". If people do not like the way state tags are ran and public land hunters they need to buy property and quit wanking. Pretty easy solution. Iowa has over 680k acres of public land according to the computer. I know where to pheasant hunt there, got a few buddys there... If someone was offended by me stating a fact about their taxes they pretty lame. No different than me paying taxes here, it has absolutely nothing to do with hunting or non-res hunters.

 

[MallardSX2]

Donate money to the BHA. They are there to support you! LMFAO.

It's truly a shame that he isn't here to defend himself in his usual snarky, arrogant, and condescending manner.

Some of you may or may not get the following cartoon.

 

[svivian]

Donate money to the BHA. They are there to support you! LMFAO.

Its truly a shame that he isn't here to defend himself in his usual snarky manner.

Some of you may or may not get the following cartoon.

View attachment 642621

we may not agree on certain things but I give props where props are due.... well done sir well done