Would you buy this scope?

[Braaap]

Are you reminding the teacher that she forgot to collect homework today??

No. They’re not going to raise prices because I asked about it, don’t worry. From a business was standpoint if you could sell the same number of scopes for $1300 as you could for $999 why wouldn’t you? I’m asking from the viewpoint of keeping the business in business and having money to R&D new products. It seems like they’re trying to simply shake up the industry, but that’s just my guess.

 

[ckt3]

No. They’re not going to raise prices because I asked about it, don’t worry. From a business was standpoint if you could sell the same number of scopes for $1300 as you could for $999 why wouldn’t you? I’m asking from the viewpoint of keeping the business in business and having money to R&D new products. It seems like they’re trying to simply shake up the industry, but that’s just my guess.

I kid I kid. It’s a fair question.

 

[HighUintas]

I'd like to think that the scope(s) and price will become so popular that it will shift the design and pricing at other companies. I think that's wishful thinking though

 

[Q_Sertorius]

No. They’re not going to raise prices because I asked about it, don’t worry. From a business was standpoint if you could sell the same number of scopes for $1300 as you could for $999 why wouldn’t you? I’m asking from the viewpoint of keeping the business in business and having money to R&D new products. It seems like they’re trying to simply shake up the industry, but that’s just my guess.

With no shade directed at anyone, they are sticking with the $999 price because that’s what they said they would do and they realize that they have to be competitive against their closest perceived competitors prices. In the initial podcasts, they talked about the psychological importance of the “magic number.” That is still as valid now as it was then.

As a newer company, they have to compete against established brands. If you are the average non-RokSlider in the market, are you going to bother researching the ZeroTech S2H 3-18x if it costs the same thing as the equivalent Maven, Trijicon, NF, etc.?

I don’t think they fully appreciated the production costs or markups in the industry when they committed to that price.

It’s also a valid business model to take smaller margins and sell more units. That’s the basis of numerous fortunes.

Also anyone can do the math and understand that it’s hard to justify charging three times more than an SWFA 3-9x or twice as much as a SWFA 3-15x or $300 more than a Maven RS 1.2 was before this year. If this scope stays at $999, what’s the justification to buy a Maven RS 1.2 for $1400?

It totally would not shock me if prices went up on January 1, 2027. I think that might be a mistake, but as long as they honor the hyped up price for RokSliders or for the initial release, I will be happy.

 

[Banana_Horn]

I'd like to think that the scope(s) and price will become so popular that it will shift the design and pricing at other companies. I think that's wishful thinking though

I wish that would be true, but I also doubt it. I could see Maven RS1.2s going on 20% off for a while if this scope comes out and stays in stock. If it is unobtainable (like SWFA 6x) for long periods of time, I doubt it will make an impact on other scope makers

 

[RockAndSage]

It seems like they’re trying to simply shake up the industry

It’s also a valid business model to take smaller margins and sell more units. That’s the basis of numerous fortunes.

It's a great way to capture market, as long as it's sustainable - while generating word-of-mouth/internet brand awareness, to generate more demand, and more scopes in the field and in conversations. Leverage that over time with modest price increases for the R&D of new models, capture more market share, slowly increase margins for the next round, repeat cycle. Very well-established strategy.

Biggest danger in this context would be perpetually out-of-stock status, without the down-time being used to generate excitement. Limited-run drops of unique runs are one way companies leverage situations that require very long lead-times for runs of items they know they can't always keep in stock because of production constraints.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

@Formidilosus @Ryan Avery why not price the new S2H scope closer to competitors like Maven or NF? Don’t get me wrong, I will happily buy one for $999 but if your product is as good or better then why not price it accordingly?

 

[BLJ]

“Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man”

 

[Formidilosus]

View attachment 1012189

Haha.

 

[Okie_Poke]

I wish that would be true, but I also doubt it.

I’m eternally hopeful but share your skepticism.

Someone posted Cliff Gray’s recent podcast earlier in which he mentions the drop test and claims some industry insiders have indicated to him that they are aware of the side-impact problem and how to fix it but can’t acknowledge it because it would kill the value of their current inventory. He speculates that within a few years the industry will quietly self correct, except for a couple of brands with large market share who refuse to believe there is a problem. I want to believe him, but I think the only way that has any chance of coming to pass is if S2H sells a metric shit ton of these scopes.

Ryan also mentioned in one of the nx6 threads that Nightforce told him they are aware of the reticle criticism on here (directed a lot at the 2-12’s 20 mil tree) and are “listening.” Again, I’ll actually believe it when it happens, but maybe. Hope springs eternal.

 

[Choupique]

can’t acknowledge it because it would kill the value of their current inventory.

Thats such a bitchmade approach. Trijicon did it and didnt go out of business.

 

[alexnelon]

Thats such a bitchmade approach. Trijicon did it and didnt go out of business.

Agreed. To be fair though, I'd be shocked speechless if Trijicon sells 3% as many rifle scopes as Vortex or Leupold to start with.

 

[Okie_Poke]

Agreed. To be fair though, I'd be shocked speechless if Trijicon sells 3% as many rifle scopes as Vortex or Leupold to start with.

Yeah, I kinda assumed those two were the couple of big brands Cliff referred to who don’t believe there’s a problem and won’t adjust. I have no idea any brand’s share of any scope market though.

 

[Dobermann]

That looks correct to me. Fancier than what I drew. . I’ll leave this here for all the MOA fans though.

I never realized how intuitive MOA was before now!

And so easy to memorize.

Folks: we've been doing it wrong the whole time.

 

[Tahoe1305]

That looks correct to me. Fancier than what I drew. . I’ll leave this here for all the MOA fans though.

I’ll take one of these with the green illum values printed please

 

[atmat]

I never realized how intuitive MOA was before now!

And so easy to memorize.

Folks: we've been doing it wrong the whole time.

View attachment 1012242

I get the joke. But you could just as much design a scope with clean MOA measurements, convert them to awkward mil measurements, and say, “Look how confusing mil is.”

I only use mil btw.

 

[mtnwrunner]

I never realized how intuitive MOA was before now!

And so easy to memorize.

Folks: we've been doing it wrong the whole time.

View attachment 1012242

You have way too much time on your hands.

 

[BLJ]

I get the joke. But you could just as much design a scope with clean MOA measurements, convert them to awkward mil measurements, and say, “Look how confusing mil is.”

I only use mil btw.

You’re going to get yourself in trouble saying things like that……………

 

[Dualsight]

I will ask about that.





Appreciate the suggestion, but that’s a hard no. Just the center dot, and that it goes very dim was a requirement from us.


In light low enough that someone needs illumination, they should not be shooting far enough to need windage.
On top of that, illuminating more of the reticle blows out your vision and lose what is behind it.





Again, appreciate the suggestion, but that was discussed and decided against. Anything that adds complexity is not good for reliability or durability. It also adds cost, to an already very expensive scope- that is going to be sold way under what it should.

Thank you and appreciate your responses; succinct and definitive. Your work in this area is much appreciated. There are ads, YouTube videos, and other media popping up more frequently with direct and indirect references to the groundwork you have and are now laying.

 

[ckt3]

I never realized how intuitive MOA was before now!

And so easy to memorize.

Folks: we've been doing it wrong the whole time.

View attachment 1012242

This is an artifact of converting from MIL design to MOA. The inverse would equally prove your point the opposite way.