Wolves in Colorado

[BuzzH]

Heres a few facts that aren’t from OK’s link on the Humane society and thise vested in convincing us wolves were such a good idea of theirs.
Chart is from the YNP website, showing wolves rise and elk population tanking.



Did buzz really say wolves have been managed all along?

Heres a partial list from the USFW webpage listing actions on wolves. It seems almost all of these are reactions by USFW to lawsuits keeping them from “managing wolves”: ( thesite isnt taking an even partial list of these lawsuits- too long full list is on the FWP site)

NOTE; THERE ARE A FEW LAWSUITS IN HERE BY THE HUMANE SOCIETY

Link to FWP actions and suits against them HERE
At the FWP website

Note dates Feb 12, 2013 was one of the many lawsuits by the Humane society

Worth niting- THIS ^IS ONLY FEDERAL of course there are many others trying to tie up the individual states.


Oh but wolves have been managed all along eh?

This doesnt even consider wolves on indian res land. If you believe that the Indians are keeping good track of these wolves then I have some swampland in Florida to sell you

Which is essentially the load of horse Puckey that these guys are paddling right now

Beendare,

You need to pay attention, since you werentdare from the start like many of us that were involved with the wolf issue prior to reintroduction to present.

If you cared to slow down and READ, COMPREHEND, then comment you would be much better off. Yes, wolves have been actively managed since REINTRODUCTION. Google "ESA 10(j) rule". In MT/WY/ID, the reintroduction not only gave managers more tools in their toolbox for managing the reintroduced wolves, but also those that were already inhabiting Montana in the NW part of the State, that migrated into Montana on their own.

I held a kill permit in my hand, for wolves in the Gravely Range in SW Montana that a local Rancher was issued in the spring of 1999.

So, yes I did say that wolves have been actively managed since reintroduction, because they have been via the 10(j) rule up until they were delisted in MT, ID, and WY. Now each of those states are actively managing their wolves.

Again, just the facts of what happened, one of the luxuries of having been involved rather than being forced to guess.

 

[rob86jeep]

So if a 1/2 dozen wolves wander into Colorado the next few years that is bad for hunters and if they introduce 4 to 6 packs that reproduce quickly and no management will be allowed ( due to lawsuits) that will benefit hunters in Colorado.

Makes perfect sense to me

Wolves will migrate into Colorado on their own. They already have been single wolves come down in the last couple of years (proof with the recent picture that got everybody all spun up again). So, given that there WILL be wolves in Colorado, would you rather have the state introduce them WITH a plan in place or let them migrate down on their own (which would take longer) but make it much harder for the state to do anything about it?

How about instead of everybody that doesn't think wolves are a good idea actually push for a liable option, like having a good conservation plan mutually agreed upon and in place during introduction instead of just saying "SSS" and having no state representative take any of them seriously?

 

[Okhotnik]

Wolves will migrate into Colorado on their own. They already have been single wolves come down in the last couple of years (proof with the recent picture that got everybody all spun up again). So, given that there WILL be wolves in Colorado, would you rather have the state introduce them WITH a plan in place or let them migrate down on their own (which would take longer) but make it much harder for the state to do anything about it?

How about instead of everybody that doesn't think wolves are a good idea actually push for a liable option, like having a good conservation plan mutually agreed upon and in place during introduction instead of just saying "SSS" and having no state representative take any of them seriously?

How are your wolf management plans working in Wisconsin Michigan Minnesota Oregon and Washington

Please feel free add your management plan

Who said anything about SSS? Pretty disingenuous statement bro

 

[rob86jeep]

How are your wolf management plans working in Wisconsin Michigan Minnesota Oregon and Washington

Please feel free add your management plan

Who said anything about SSS? Pretty disingenuous statement bro

I have no wolf management plans. I am by no means an expert or even hobbyist when it comes to wildlife introduction/conservation plans. I'm also not even the least bit familiar with those states. People do still hunt in those states though so it can't be too bad. I have friends that hunt every year in 3 out of the four you mentioned and although I've never asked them about wolves, never once had any of them said anything bad about them nor have they said anything about how hunting is declining in their state. That doesn't mean it isn't a problem or not happening, but it can't be as big of a deal as the internet forums make it out to be.

As for SSS, I hear it constantly on hunting groups/forums. Not sure if I hear it on rockslide at all but I do in other places. My point being, no-one (state/federal) is going to take anybody serious that is all doom and gloom.

I don't have much of a dog in this fight, i'm just tired of hearing that all the elk will be gone in x amount of years. I believe someone from Idaho chimed in earlier and mentioned how they get more elk tags now (years after wolves showed up) then they did before. That doesn't sound like a major problem to me...

 

[ahlgringo]

I have no wolf management plans. I am by no means an expert or even hobbyist when it comes to wildlife introduction/conservation plans. I'm also not even the least bit familiar with those states. People do still hunt in those states though so it can't be too bad. I have friends that hunt every year in 3 out of the four you mentioned and although I've never asked them about wolves, never once had any of them said anything bad about them nor have they said anything about how hunting is declining in their state. That doesn't mean it isn't a problem or not happening, but it can't be as big of a deal as the internet forums make it out to be.

As for SSS, I hear it constantly on hunting groups/forums. Not sure if I hear it on rockslide at all but I do in other places. My point being, no-one (state/federal) is going to take anybody serious that is all doom and gloom.

I don't have much of a dog in this fight, i'm just tired of hearing that all the elk will be gone in x amount of years. I believe someone from Idaho chimed in earlier and mentioned how they get more elk tags now (years after wolves showed up) then they did before. That doesn't sound like a major problem to me...

If you dont have a dog in this fight and you are by self proclamation not educated on management plans or familiar with states that are struggling with this issue- I only wonder why you are posting at all?


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[mtmuley]

Shoot, shovel, shut up.

Here's an SSS. Empty mind too maybe. mtmuley

 

[brsnow]

If you dont have a dog in this fight and you are by self proclamation not educated on management plans or familiar with states that are struggling with this issue- I only wonder why you are posting at all?


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My guess would be sometimes be removed from the intensity and emotion of being a dog in the fight provides clarity.

 

[slick]

Oregons’s plan:

https://www.dfw.state.or.us/Wolves/docs/2019_Oregon_Wolf_Plan.pdf

Washington’s plan:

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/00001/wdfw00001.pdf

 

[Okhotnik]

Oregons’s plan:

https://www.dfw.state.or.us/Wolves/docs/2019_Oregon_Wolf_Plan.pdf

Washington’s plan:

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/00001/wdfw00001.pdf

Washington elk and deer tags have been reduced as much as 80 per cent in areas with wolves and moose tags issued are way down too

The wolf plan seems to be working

Oregon elk and deer tags are down too

I’m sure the pro wolf anti hunting groups would never file a lawsuit to shut down all management goals

Have any hunting seasons been shut down in Oregon? What are the current political trends in Oregon and Washington?? I think they are more concerned with supporting antifa beating innocent people up on their streets than supportering sportsmen

 

[Beendare]

Koot, you're comments seem to be fairly common. So not picking on you as I have followed your posts on this site and judge that you are a reasonable guy.

Soooo, what did elk do 200 years ago when there were wolves and grizzlies, etc. completely unmanaged?

Letting nature achieve some sort of natural balance on its own-or due to predator/prey relationships is a fairy tale in areas with high human populations. We have infringed on their habitat too much. This is why it is so important for the F&W depts to actively manage these species with a high degree of control. We have the tools- HUNTERS. They provides $$$ to perpetuate good management AND the animals provide a quality organic protein source. A WIN, WIN.

I don't think anyone is disputing the difference in ungulate behavior with or without wolves, that's just common sense that things are different.

Unfortunately, the wildlife balance is out of whack and always will be, and has to be effectively and actively management on ALL fronts, wolves, elk, etc.

Sure ungulate behavior changed with an apex predator. Many unforeseen consequences. Wildlife out of balance? Seems like the F&G depts would want to use predictable methods for control, eh? Hunters can do that...and we have many historic stats on the effectiveness and % of animals taken out of the herd per hunt. For example, the success rate in many of Co's hunt units haven't changed much for years.
Wolves are a wild card...unpredictable...creating much more drag on EVERYTHING; species, the economy, etc.

It wouldn't make sense that the wolves would kill all their prey species off and then effectively die off themselves. If anyone has a North American example of that predator/prey relationship example in an unconstrained system, please post! Sure they'll lower numbers, but predator/prey cycles are natural.

Who is saying wolves kill every animal? The boom/bustcycle with predator prey species is well documented across the board. In the lower 48 with compressed habitat Is this what we want...or an evenly managed ecosystem?

I think its a mistake using vast areas- say- in Alaska as a model for the highly populated Colorado. Big mistake. Not even close to the same dynamic. Even the Vast ecosystem in the Yellowstone area is much lower human population density than many areas in Colorado. Have you driven through CO lately- Housing tract after housing tract stacked in there- its crazy how much Co has changed in the last 20 years. Murphys law is going to rear its ugly head don't you think?

Pro Wolfies claim they can predict what effect these apex predators will have......
Well, We have 10 years of history now showing they were wrong on many counts. That has cost us all a lot of $$...and diminished valuable resources.


The pro wolf crowd appeals to your sense of naturalist in all of us. Its a lie. They have much more predictable management tools; Hunters. If you are aligning with these folks...ask yourself this; why aren't they using the hunters to accomplish management objectives in place of wolves?



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[Topo_trekker]

I agree with a lot of what is said above, yes they may be hard to manage but not impossible. Since every state is somewhat different predicting what will happen is difficult as well. Saying that CO is housing tract after housing tract is laughable. The wolves are coming and they know this. CO has had a plan to manage for the last 15 years.

The Wolf Management Working Group consists of 4 live stock producers, 4 wild life advocates, 2 wildlife biologists, 2 sportsman, and 2 local govt officials. They seemed to all agree on a plan than is reasonable for all.

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/WildlifeSpecies/SpeciesOfConcern/Wolf/recomendations.pdf

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[Researcher]

Big money raising disparity

Colorado Proposition 114, Gray Wolf Reintroduction Initiative (2020)

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics

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