Hot New Woods Defense Pistol

[treillw]

Have a Glock 20, fnx 45 tactical, and 500 Smith and Wesson. I'd like to get a new semi auto woods defense gun for various good reasons, which aren't pertinent to the conversation.

Since the last time I shopped for a similar gun, the market seems to have expanded pretty drastically - there are many more options available than there used to be. I want something red dot and weapon light compatible. Thinking 10mm, but I would stray to a similar cartridge.

I'm a bit of a gun snob and would like something very nice. I'm wondering if there are any options out there that I may not be aware of (not in the typical gun store lineup). My current favorite options from the typical choices are the sig xten and the fn 510, but I'm not totally in love. Wish Walther made a 10mm PDP or a Staccato.

Any recommendations? Thanks!

 

[Luke S]

I get liking nice guns. But I carry a pistol for bears most of the spring, summer and fall in Alaska. After a while I care more about comfort than how nice it is. I had a nice S&W .44 for a while. Its long gone. Just not something I could spend all day, every day carrying.

There is a real strain of thought here that a 9mm is just as good as a 10mm. Basically the argument is you are just punching holes and a 9mm with the right bullet punches as far as a 10mm.

Here is my experience. I hit a caribou cow in the spine once. When I came up she was alive but more or less paralyzed. So I thought, "Lets dry out my cool new 10mm." I drilled her perfectly through the skull. She died, but there was a nice neat little 10mm hole through both sides. Nothing impressive. Later I took a similar shot to finish off another caribou with my .358 Winchester and soft points. That blew the top of the skull off and pelted me with brains (gross). After that I watched some tests of 9mm ammo (Buffalo Bore etc.) They weren't all scientific but I was convinced a 9mm could punch through a bear skull just as well as a 10mm and neither was going to kill a bear quickly with a body shot. So I sold my Glock 29 and I plan on running a 9mm this year.

So my ideal bear pistol would have a decent site radius, a grip big enough for all my fingers (not sub compact) and 9mm. I also think lighter weight and a slimmer profile are nice. Not so much for concealment but just so the gun rides better on my belt or chest harness.

So if I was buying a bear pistol tomorrow it would probably be a Glock 48 or a Sig 365 or something similar, assuming I could shoot it as well as say a Glock 19. To me the whole point of a pistol is you never, ever take it off. I have actaully slept with my pistol most many nights, partly in case a bear raided camp and partly because I didn't want to lay it aside where a kid might mess with it. I see a lot of guys with a big .454 or whatever. They are so bulky they don't have them on half the time. Think about it this way. A pistol you only carry 50% of the time means that the chance it saves your life is 50% less, regardless of how powerful it is.

 

[eddielasvegas]

To add to @Luke S reply, I watched THIS podcast video a couple days ago and thought it interesting and informative regarding pistol bear protection.


Eddie

 

[Thegman]

I agree about the 9mm. Over the years I've carried 44s to 10mms to 45 Supers and now 9mm. Penetration is similar, 9mm is lighter, faster to shoot and easier to shoot than the others. Reading the many actual accounts of handguns used in bear defense show the 9mm seems to be adequate for the job (the others as well, but with the issues mentioned).

 

[RockAndSage]

Keep in mind that Shoemaker also said he wouldn't recommend 9mm as a bear handgun - despite his success with 9mm Buffalo Bore ammo, and the test he had his wife and daughter go through in just hitting the targets. I think the biggest takeaway is that finding a balance between what you can shoot accurately under extreme duress, what will have enough penetration, and what you're most likely to carry is key. 9mm clearly can work on brown bear, but it is the best choice for you?

Regarding 10mms you asked about, FN has their 510 that is a good option. If you want a little snobbery, Sig's P220 10mm Legion is a pretty nice handgun. The 510 is doublestack, however, while the the Sig is a single stack.

 

[TxLite]

If you are wanting snobby but reliable 10mm, Triarc makes 2011 style pistols similar to Staccato for a similar price point. It will accept a light and red dot.

 

[IDVortex]

I mean.... a FN is a very nice gun especially paired with a red-dot. Plus, it's Gucci, so that's the only thing that matters.

 

[treillw]

I get liking nice guns. But I carry a pistol for bears most of the spring, summer and fall in Alaska. After a while I care more about comfort than how nice it is. I had a nice S&W .44 for a while. Its long gone. Just not something I could spend all day, every day carrying.

There is a real strain of thought here that a 9mm is just as good as a 10mm. Basically the argument is you are just punching holes and a 9mm with the right bullet punches as far as a 10mm.

Here is my experience. I hit a caribou cow in the spine once. When I came up she was alive but more or less paralyzed. So I thought, "Lets dry out my cool new 10mm." I drilled her perfectly through the skull. She died, but there was a nice neat little 10mm hole through both sides. Nothing impressive. Later I took a similar shot to finish off another caribou with my .358 Winchester and soft points. That blew the top of the skull off and pelted me with brains (gross). After that I watched some tests of 9mm ammo (Buffalo Bore etc.) They weren't all scientific but I was convinced a 9mm could punch through a bear skull just as well as a 10mm and neither was going to kill a bear quickly with a body shot. So I sold my Glock 29 and I plan on running a 9mm this year.

So my ideal bear pistol would have a decent site radius, a grip big enough for all my fingers (not sub compact) and 9mm. I also think lighter weight and a slimmer profile are nice. Not so much for concealment but just so the gun rides better on my belt or chest harness.

So if I was buying a bear pistol tomorrow it would probably be a Glock 48 or a Sig 365 or something similar, assuming I could shoot it as well as say a Glock 19. To me the whole point of a pistol is you never, ever take it off. I have actaully slept with my pistol most many nights, partly in case a bear raided camp and partly because I didn't want to lay it aside where a kid might mess with it. I see a lot of guys with a big .454 or whatever. They are so bulky they don't have them on half the time. Think about it this way. A pistol you only carry 50% of the time means that the chance it saves your life is 50% less, regardless of how powerful it is.

What bullets are you using for the 9 mm and griz?

 

[treillw]

I agree about the 9mm. Over the years I've carried 44s to 10mms to 45 Supers and now 9mm. Penetration is similar, 9mm is lighter, faster to shoot and easier to shoot than the others. Reading the many actual accounts of handguns used in bear defense show the 9mm seems to be adequate for the job (the others as well, but with the issues mentioned).

What bullets are you using for the 9 mm and griz?

 

[Thegman]

What bullets are you using for the 9 mm and griz?

Either 147 FP Hardcast (I have them from a few makers) +p handloads, or the Federal 147 FP FMJ. In my testing, the Federal penetrates as well as my +p 147 Hardcast loads. That said, I've never used any handgun on a grizzly (or any bear) and I hope that continues!

 

[ScreamingPotato]

What bullets are you using for the 9 mm and griz?

While she's never shot a grizz, wife carries her 9mm with Federal Dangerous Game hard cast. They feed well and shoot well from her Micro 9.

Buy Solid Core 9mm Luger +P Ammo 147 | P9SHC1

Shopping for the Solid Core - Learn more about the latest Solid Core and other hunting or shooting gear at Federal Ammunition.

www.federalpremium.com

 

[Coopsdaddy]

You can use a 22 mag for killing a bear but dosnt mean it’s the optimal.
You can kill a whitetail with your 556 but that’s not the right tool either.

 

[IDVortex]

You can use a 22 mag for killing a bear but dosnt mean it’s the optimal.
You can kill a whitetail with your 556 but that’s not the right tool either.

A .556 with the correct bullet would do wonders on a deer though...

 

[Turkeygetpwnd38]

I had an STI(now staccato) 2011 Nitro 10. It shot great and wasn’t crazy heavy. At the time, holster availability was the issue, I couldn’t come up with a system I liked. Today, that probably wouldn’t be a problem. If you found one of those used, I wouldn’t hesitate, wish I would have held on to mine. If you go standard 1911 route, there are more high end options than ever. I have a 20, 29, and X-ten. I like them in that order. If you are just wanting something new I’d give the FN a try.

 

[taskswap]

I have nothing to offer here, just lurking with some popcorn. I'm the guy "this is why we can't have nice things" was originally about. Curious what you end up with, but I need something "not nice" for back-woods carry myself...

 

[treillw]

I had an STI(now staccato) 2011 Nitro 10. It shot great and wasn’t crazy heavy. At the time, holster availability was the issue, I couldn’t come up with a system I liked. Today, that probably wouldn’t be a problem. If you found one of those used, I wouldn’t hesitate, wish I would have held on to mine. If you go standard 1911 route, there are more high end options than ever. I have a 20, 29, and X-ten. I like them in that order. If you are just wanting something new I’d give the FN a try.

I was looking at those back in the day. I don't think they had an optics cut, which kept me away from them.

If Stacatto comes out with a 10, I might have to get one. Really wish they would.

 

[Long Cut]

I’m in the Glock 45/19 camp with a weapon light & red dot.

The caliber choice doesn’t matter as much as the amount of time spent practicing & carrying that particular gun.

Would I rather spent $500 on a gun and have say $1,500 for ammo, classes, range time
OR
Spend $2k+ on a Staccato, but have no money leftover for ammo, classes or range time

 

[Dennis]

In order for my handguns to be effective I must carry them. I tried 44 magnums, 460 Roland, 45 ACP with Buffalo Bore 255 grain hardcasts and full size 357 magnums etc. For me I have settled on an Sig 365 XL and 13 rounds of Buffalo Bore 147 grain hardcasts. I mounted a light and a red dot on it, but think I am going to ditch the red dot. It is blinding at night especially without the light. At times if I what to go lighter I will carry a S&W 360 Titanium 357 magnum, but I can only shoot the Buffalo Bore 38 Special 158 grain hardcasts. This is the load that Buffalo Bore recommends for Titanium guns and I tried the 357 loads but the were just to snappy to shot more than a couple shots before saying ouch. Good
luck.

 

[treillw]

Either 147 FP Hardcast (I have them from a few makers) +p handloads, or the Federal 147 FP FMJ. In my testing, the Federal penetrates as well as my +p 147 Hardcast loads. That said, I've never used any handgun on a grizzly (or any bear) and I hope that continues!

Where are you buying your projectiles?

 

[Thegman]

Where are you buying your projectiles?

I bought some online (there a lots of options) and a bunch locally (Acme and another brand)

I think these would be worth considering, although I haven't bought any as I still have over 1,000 of the others I already purchased.

9mm TC 148 gr. " The Outdoorsman" per 400

In-Stock 9mm TC 148 gr. per 400 (sized .356) OAL 0.642, Meplat 0.212, No crimp groove

rimrockbullets.com

Should add: Above I said "penetration is similar". Should clarify that's comparing 45 Super, and 10mm to 9mm 147+p. My 44 mag 320 hardcast handloads are in a class by themselves. I'd guess 2x the penetration of the others pretty easily.