Why not Paradox Pack?

[Outdoorsman3830]

Why does it seem like the Paradox Pack receives little chatter?

The Paradox Pack has interested me since it first came out. However, I noticed it is not very recognized among the backpack hunting community. The frame is built off solid concepts by using a stiff articulating frame and full-wrap harness. The bags are simple and offer a good compression system.

What is holding people back from buying them? What do people like and dislike about them?

I'm purchasing one in the Spring and expect the frame to perform extremely well across a wide range of loads. However, I will more than likely make a different bag using the Kifaru EMR II's center zip design with Hill People Gear's compression system. A Paradox Unaweep 6300 with the design characteristics mentioned previously, Day Talon, and Multi-Lid is my ideal setup presently.

 

[Hootsma]

I tried the Paradox 4,800 bag with side zip, lid and Evolution frame. The frame is super light but stout, even with 100 lbs loads. The frame can receive add on attachments that can take it from 22" to 28", so no problems with lift no matter how much you load on it and it'll fit just about any torso size.

Their claim to fame with their belt is that once you put it on, it stays put and won't slide down your hips. I found this to be surprisingly true and it didn't put any extreme pressure on my hip pointers either. My only issue is the way the belt is attached to the frame, it caused the belt to fit around my body in such a way that it cut off circulation to the top of my glutes. The more weight I had in it, the worse it got. We don't have any mountains around here to train on, so I would use a local office tower that is 34 stories. By the time I would get to the top, my glutes were on fire and even though I would rest at the top the fire wouldn't go away. Took me a while to figure out what was going on, but one time I simply lifted up on the bottom of the frame and instant relief. I tried the other set of attachment grommets on belt to frame tab, but no love. After that, I gave up on the frame and went back to my bikini. But, in all fairness, I didn't give them a call to see if there is a way to work it out so that it fit better. Also, I've never seen anyone else have a similar complaint, so it may be something unique to my physique or my lack of understanding of the proper fitting of the pack.

I used the Paradox 4,800 bag and lid on my bikini frame on my 9 day elk trip this year. The Paradox/Evolution system is based on 3/4" webbing and buckles, so I couldn't easily use the Talon as a compression panel with the Bikini. So, I bought the Long Back Pouch from the Rhino Den and used it as the compression pouch instead. This system worked great for my trip.

I've since purchased the Beaver Tail from Exo and the Ultralight frame from Kifaru and will be using that in conjunction with either the Long Back Pouch or a Kifaru large Side Pocket and the 4,800 bag on most of my trips for the ultimate in FrankenPacks. I'm also using the HPG style of compression with the beaver tail, since it doesn't have PALS webbing to move the compression straps inboard to take up the slack on small or no loads. The HPG style of compression solves that issue without having to send the Beaver Tail off to a sewer to add the PALS. I like the idea of a waterproof main bag and lid too. Just makes a lot of sense to me.

I may eventually get around to calling Paradox about the frame issue, but I'm really liking the Paradox Bag / Kifaru frame setup I have now, so I'm not in any hurry to solve the issue.

 

[Ray]

Those of us that love our paradox packs say it a few times and move on with our lives. They don't have a hundred options to chose from. There aren't twenty to the tenth power of ways to set one up. There not much to chatter about.
Anyone that has an issue with their lower back, I'll point towards a paradox.

 

[Outdoorsman3830]

I really liked the Bikini Highcamp 7000. I just do not care for big lumbar pads and the frame felt kind of like a board strapped to my back. I found the Late Season's suspension much more comfortable. Also, I really like the HPG harness over Kifaru's 2-piece harness. Their is no doubt that Kifaru is the king of internal frames. IMO, McHale packs are right in line with them, but suffer from the steeper price and lack of Kifaru modularity.

 

[MontanaMarine]

This year I bought a Unaweep 4800. Most comfortable pack I've used, and the pack itself is nice and light.

I've had disk surgery at ruptured L4-5.

 

[DaveC]

They've only been selling packs for a little over two years. It's a rather non traditional design. They didn't/don't put a lot of resources into marketing or giving out a ton of free packs to generate hype. And I say that as one of the folks they did give a free pack to back in 2013 (for an article on Backpacking Light).

I've put a couple thousand miles on the Paradox system in various iterations over the past 27 months, and have been nothing but pleased.

O3830, here's a bag for the Paradox system I built which was in part inspired by the EMR II: http://bedrockandparadox.com/2015/10/13/the-next-big-pack/

 

[Jared Lampton]

http://www.rokslide.com/2012-01-09-05-09-42/backpacks/325-paradox-pack-review

I've also wondered why Paradox doesn't get the attention the others do. Dave is probably right.
I bought my pack 2 years ago and it hasn't let me down. The heavy load carrying comfort of the pack has made me more confident in tackling longer, heavier pack outs than ever before.
I'd be interested in what Luke Moffat would have to say by way of comparing the Paradox (thought I saw a pic of him packing a goat with it) to Kifaru that he seems to use more often.

 

[Bighorse]

Not sure really. They are fully functional. For packrafting and boating they are great. That sweet xpac fabric is nice for water applications.
I use it in the rainforest of SE Ak. It gets wet often. Including skiff rides in the salt water. No worries. There's not much weight gain from exposure. I would have liked more effort from the manufacturer to seal the seams in all honesty. I followed their recommendation of using silicone and after one season kinda got a mess now. It's not a super complicated bag. Perhaps the future will bring this feature.

 

[Steve O]

I found the one dude who was pushing them all over the Internet was pretty abrasive. That's why I never bought one to try out.

 

[KHNC]

I have a Unaweep 4800 as well. Very nice pack. I recently packed a very large whitetail out in some Kentucky mtns in one trip. I estimated the load of boned out meat , head and cape at 120-125lbs total. I had close to a mile to get back to my boat. This is the heaviest load I have packed with it so far. It was very comfortable. I train using an 85lb sandbag in the offseason. This pack handles it with ease. I agree that since Paradox does ZERO tv advertising, and few dealers, not many people are aware they even exist. Hopefully they will find a way to get the word out on their products.

 

[woods89]

Forget the pack, give us the story on that buck!

 

[KHNC]

Forget the pack, give us the story on that buck!

I was lucky enough to shoot this buck on 11/12/2015 on some Ky public ground. I accessed the area by boat , then hiked mostly uphill for about a mile to my spot. I found some big rubs and lots of fresh scrapes on the side hill of a ridge. A big cedar thicket was on top of the ridge with another thicket on the opposite ridge as well. The morning of 11/11 I had this buck come down the ridge in front of me following a doe that had came thru earlier. I took a steep downhill shot at 40 yds and missed!! After being sick for the rest of the day and night ,I was back in the same tree the next morning in some high winds. About 10am, amazingly he came up the same ridge from behind me. I was at full draw as he walked straight to my tree. I shot him at 7yds! He went about 50yds and piled up! Since it was so far and steep, there was no way I was going to try and drag him out. I had my pack and TAG bags with me. Skinned and boned the meat out right there on the ridge. Caped him out and cut off his head. With a full load I took him out in one trip. It was tricky as hell not to fall! Made it out without incident. My best public land buck and one of my best bucks ever.

 

[woods89]

That's awesome. Killing a buck like that on remote public is really cool!

I killed my best this year in a wilderness area after spiking out overnight so I saw the full pack and it looked kind of familiar. He's not that big tho, and mine was a rifle kill. Not very many things get me as excited as big public land whitetails!

Quite an accomplishment! Sorry op! Thread back on track.

 

[KHNC]

Thanks woods! Congrats on yours as well!

 

[luke moffat]

http://www.rokslide.com/2012-01-09-05-09-42/backpacks/325-paradox-pack-review

I've also wondered why Paradox doesn't get the attention the others do. Dave is probably right.
I bought my pack 2 years ago and it hasn't let me down. The heavy load carrying comfort of the pack has made me more confident in tackling longer, heavier pack outs than ever before.
I'd be interested in what Luke Moffat would have to say by way of comparing the Paradox (thought I saw a pic of him packing a goat with it) to Kifaru that he seems to use more often.

I have one in my garage to test out. I did pack out a mountain goat in 2013 to test out. Thought it was pretty good then. A few things I would have liked to have seen tweaked and such and we will see how the changes they have made in the past couple years compare. Looking forward to using it certainly. Will keep you posted.

 

[Jared Lampton]

I have one in my garage to test out. I did pack out a mountain goat in 2013 to test out. Thought it was pretty good then. A few things I would have liked to have seen tweaked and such and we will see how the changes they have made in the past couple years compare. Looking forward to using it certainly. Will keep you posted.

Cool. Thanks Luke. from what I gather you are involved in an awful lot of pack outs and bring a very practical and unbiased yet particular point of view. Always look forward to your input.
I really want to try the Kifaru (and the other top brands) to see how they stack up but just can't justify the expense at this point.

 

[Outdoorsman3830]

They've only been selling packs for a little over two years. It's a rather non traditional design. They didn't/don't put a lot of resources into marketing or giving out a ton of free packs to generate hype. And I say that as one of the folks they did give a free pack to back in 2013 (for an article on Backpacking Light).

I've put a couple thousand miles on the Paradox system in various iterations over the past 27 months, and have been nothing but pleased.

O3830, here's a bag for the Paradox system I built which was in part inspired by the EMR II: http://bedrockandparadox.com/2015/10/13/the-next-big-pack/

Dave,
Thanks for the link to your bag and I like that you added the small buckle at the top where the zipper meets.

Haisen

 

[Outdoorsman3830]

Kenny,
Congratulations on your nice buck. I appreciate the feedback on the Paradox's performance.

I have one in my garage to test out. I did pack out a mountain goat in 2013 to test out. Thought it was pretty good then. A few things I would have liked to have seen tweaked and such and we will see how the changes they have made in the past couple years compare. Looking forward to using it certainly. Will keep you posted.

Luke,
I'm looking forward to hearing your input on the Paradox. I remember reading when you first tested it out. Hope you get some heavy miles under it. I know Seek Outside was looking for some input on a larger pack. You might be able to give some valuable recommendations on a larger pack design after testing it.

Haisen

 

[ams]

Just saw this post and just wanted to give my thoughts. The paradox is a great pack/frame and I agree that they don't get a lot of attention. I think those who have a paradox are just happy to have a functional and comfortable setup that works for them. Over the last few years it seems like guys who have back issues really like the waistband and fit. I've been using the first generation version with the original (thinner) harness and found it to be best combination of features I wanted in a pack with what was available in 2013. That being said the first of the only two issues I've had with the paradox are the lack of a frame sheet. It requires intentional placement of gear in the bag to avoid something hitting you in the back. Not a huge deal, just spend a bit more time packing correctly (I hate packing carefully and like to throw stuff in a pack) The second is there are a ton of straps on my 6300/talon combo and, again I hate taking the time to undo them all. I still chose to keep the paradox over other packs. Now in fairness there is a panel loader pack they've had out for a bit that solves the strap problem from what pictures I've seen but I haven't picked one up yet so I can't really complain.
Also they've got a new addition the "Revolution" I've had the pleasure of messing with. It solves the frame sheet issue. It's not a frame sheet but two aluminum cross stays and two horizontal pads instead of the vertical pads that ran along the insides of the aluminum tube frame. The back panel is a solid piece of fabric which I like alot. There were a few deer that just got compressed between the frame and talon so the solid fabric is very welcome compared to the mesh panel......it may give up some breathability in warmer weather, but truthfully I sweat regardless. I've been trying some awkward loads with the new system. Although I can still get objects between the cross stays, if done intentionally, the new style padding takes care of any discomfort but I wouldn't be hauling loads like that in the field anyway.
It took some getting used to the one piece belt but now I love it.
You can change the frame from 22" -26" or 24"-28"
It's still super light, under 6 lbs, for a frame that can handle heavy loads and over 8000cu with my setup which is more room than I need but nice to have it.
New Revolution keeps awkward loads off your back.
It's comfortable with all ranges of weight.
There's a few new bags coming out but I don't know much about them.
I'm really impressed with the Paradox

 

[ams]

Outdoorsman, if you want to make a drive up this way I have a few packs from different companies you are more than welcome to try out. I'm doing the same thing currently just to make sure I have what fits me best out of the current options out there.