Pack Advice: Barneys vs Kifaru vs Crossfire

[TheHammer]

I see you are of a larger frame. I usta be a little bit bigger until I changed my life to be successful in the back country and have slimmed down a little. Even so the exo k4 is a fantastic choice. You can turn the shoulder straps outward. It locks great on the hips with no slip, customer service is second to none. I did not have good luck with the sg, it would pinch my traps. Out of the packs you have suggested the kifaru will be the most versatile.

 

[double_barrel]

Crossfire does a couple of things better than EXO, Kifaru, and SG. Not saying it’s the best choice for OP’s application, or not. But 9.9999/10 here can hardly comment on Crossfire because they haven’t used anything Crossfire, yourself included.

Could you elaborate a bit on what the Crossfire does better? Also, what's your take on the DG16 frame?

This thread is the first time I've heard someone knock the comfort of it, which has me thinking now. I know in the service they typically haul anywhere from 50-150lbs.

What sort of differences does the 3" more frame height on the Kifaru make? I see it comes in 22" as well.

My apologies for all the questions. This will be my first framed pack. Ashamed to say it, but I run a 5.11 Rush 72 as it was best pack locally available at the time. I only recently started researching.

 

[plebe]

Could you elaborate a bit on what the Crossfire does better? Also, what's your take on the DG16 frame?

This thread is the first time I've heard someone knock the comfort of it, which has me thinking now. I know in the service they typically haul anywhere from 50-150lbs.

What sort of differences does the 3" more frame height on the Kifaru make? I see it comes in 22" as well.

My apologies for all the questions. This will be my first framed pack. Ashamed to say it, but I run a 5.11 Rush 72 as it was best pack locally available at the time. I only recently started researching.

Crossfire has a semi rigid shoulder harness with shaped plastic sewn in, which reduces pressurepoints and hotspots. Also the mesh stretched across the back provides a bit of nice spring, as well as transverse ventilation that is very good to best in class. The sewn hook and slot connection system is pretty brilliant for ease of use and lightweightness. I didn’t have the DG16, but an older model. I still have the Mule.

I don’t mean to suggest Crossfire is the right choice for you, but don’t think they should be thrown under a bus of misinformation. They were partners with Mystery Ranch and make good kit. (The NICE frame actually came from that I think).

Bear in mind these frames are purpose built for military use, and the design makes concessions to that purpose. Use with plate carriers or gear belts and while running and performing combat activities.

So while there actually are load lift straps, the Crossfire frame is short to reduce instability during agile operations. And pack design is probably geared towards a lower center of gravity than the others, like EXO that favor a tall narrow stack intended to reduce felt weight while rucking. I do believe, in conventional backpacking usage, probably most folks would prefer a higher load lift connection than the DG frameset offers, especially taller people. But can’t say for certain.

The Crossfire belt isn’t my favorite, it’s design having to conform to requirements of a full military kit. Whereas some of the others offer more complete cupping of the hips.

I don’t want to steer you away from or towards anything, only you can know what will be best for you. But note that performance is a combination of design and individual fit. For example, statements like the K4 “locks great on the hips with no slip” are not universally true. The K4 belt slips some on me and others have reported the same. Doesn’t mean it will on you.

Personal trial really is the best thing here. Hope you pick a winner.

 

[double_barrel]

Crossfire has a semi rigid shoulder harness with shaped plastic sewn in, which reduces pressurepoints and hotspots. Also the mesh stretched across the back provides a bit of nice spring, as well as transverse ventilation that is very good to best in class. The sewn hook and slot connection system is pretty brilliant for ease of use and lightweightness. I didn’t have the DG16, but an older model. I still have the Mule.

I don’t mean to suggest Crossfire is the right choice for you, but don’t think they should be thrown under a bus of misinformation. They were partners with Mystery Ranch and make good kit. (The NICE frame actually came from that I think).

Bear in mind these frames are purpose built for military use, and the design makes concessions to that purpose. Use with plate carriers or gear belts and while running and performing combat activities.

So while there actually are load lift straps, the Crossfire frame is short to reduce instability during agile operations. And pack design is probably geared towards a lower center of gravity than the others, like EXO that favor a tall narrow stack intended to reduce felt weight while rucking. I do believe, in conventional backpacking usage, probably most folks would prefer a higher load lift connection than the DG frameset offers, especially taller people. But can’t say for certain.

The Crossfire belt isn’t my favorite, it’s design having to conform to requirements of a full military kit. Whereas some of the others offer more complete cupping of the hips.

I don’t want to steer you away from or towards anything, only you can know what will be best for you. But note that performance is a combination of design and individual fit. For example, statements like the K4 “locks great on the hips with no slip” are not universally true. The K4 belt slips some on me and others have reported the same. Doesn’t mean it will on you.

Personal trial really is the best thing here. Hope you pick a winner.

Thanks for the input. Either way I think both would be a large upgrade over what I currently have. I'm going to stew on it a bit and make a decision this weekend.

I wish we had a dealer up here where I could see one of them in person and try it on, but alas.

 

[AK4570]

If you are truly going to live, hunt, and travel out of your pack, Barney's is the only option. There are many great options for internal frame packs (and I will usually be found wearing one of them most hunting days), but if true load carrying is on the agenda, there is no internal frame that will stand up to the task the way a Barney's freighter frame will.

Best of luck and best regards,
John

 

[rickyw]

I know Billy Mohls chucked his Barneys off a cliff with a brown bear hide in it, walked down and picked it up and it was fine. They are heavy because they are durable. There’s a reason Alaskan guides use them. I also have to echo what he says in the video - one of my favorite features is being able to loop my rifle sling over the frame. No gun bearer needed. With a leather sling there is no shift of the gun and it is always readily available.

 

[double_barrel]

If you are truly going to live, hunt, and travel out of your pack, Barney's is the only option. There are many great options for internal frame packs (and I will usually be found wearing one of them most hunting days), but if true load carrying is on the agenda, there is no internal frame that will stand up to the task the way a Barney's freighter frame will.

Best of luck and best regards,
John

Thanks for the input. Do you have any experience with Kifaru, more specifically the Ark frame? If so, how would you say it compares to the Freighter Frame?

I saw that the Barneys says it uses a floating hip belt. What exactly is that? Is it unique to the Barneys, or does the Kifaru also use that?

 

[Folically_Challenged]

For what it’s worth, I just bought the Barney’s Yukon UL with a Freighter frame. I didn’t recall seeing the guy’s name tag, but the receipt says, “Kevin”.

Background: 5’ 10”, < 210 at hunting weight. Guided mountain hunts, some on horseback, some on foot.

I’d been wanting to upgrade from a European backpacking setup, but have been overwhelmed by the choices. Moreover, none of the brands are in stock for me to try out anywhere within 100 miles of where I live.

While at SCI show Friday, I was able to check out Stone Glacier, KUIU, and Barney’s. I was expecting to fall in love with Stone Glacier, as many people I respect, including several of the guides and outfitters I’ve gone with, were enthusiastic supporters of the brand.

It was an immediate, “NO!” for me. The empty packs were uncomfortable, and the packs loaded with 20 pounds and 50 pounds were painful. Given that I was standing in their display booth, with their representative tweaking the pack to fit me as best it could, I knew that it was not for me. we did discovered that the X Curve frame was a better option for me than the flat (?) frame, but neither set up would work for my body.

The KUIU rep spent a lot of time with me to figure out that I needed a tall frame instead of a standard one. Neither one of us expected it, but that’s what it took to make the thing sort of work for me. I have a KUIU DIVIDE 1800 daypack with which I’m quite pleased, but this one didn’t speak to me. It was a bit heavier than I was thinking, and he made it a point several times to say that I would need a separate rain cover, which would not be included. I would imagine that’s the kind of thing they could throw in on the deal when they charge what they do for these items.

Barney’s booth looked fairly unassuming, as did the packs. At a glance, they look like extremely old school technology. When he handed it to me, though, I was shocked that it seemed to weigh even less than my day pack. I then noticed that the shoulder straps had 2 to 3 times the padding of any other packs I had tried on that day. The waist belt was not as thick as the others, but it was very wide, and distributed the weight far better around my hips and trunk than any other pack I’ve ever worn. The lumbar support, likewise, was not super thick, but seemed to give me padding right where I needed it. The UL packs were quite noticeably lighter than the other material, and I was told that they didn’t require a rain cover. Kevin offered a discount if purchased at the show, so I got out my card and wore the pack out of there.

The outfitter I hunted with in the Talkeetnas, and all of his guides, used Barney’s exclusively. My guide had been in that area 4 years doing 6 to 8 hunts a year, and said the packs held up just fine. He would chew up a pair of boots every season, but not the packs.

I was actually able to take the pack out for a 2 hour climb up Pinnacle Mountain in Arkansas yesterday. Though the pack was loaded only with day pack items, and was probably under 20 pounds total, it felt far, far better than the pack I’ve been using for many years. This was over varying kinds of terrain, and included close to half an hour of scrambling.

The hope was my backstory would be useful, but I could’ve just strongly suggested you physically try on as many packs as possible. Doing so lead me to a much different path than I was expecting.

Good luck to you,

FC

 

[double_barrel]

For what it’s worth, I just bought the Barney’s Yukon UL with a Freighter frame. I didn’t recall seeing the guy’s name tag, but the receipt says, “Kevin”.

Background: 5’ 10”, < 210 at hunting weight. Guided mountain hunts, some on horseback, some on foot.

I’d been wanting to upgrade from a European backpacking setup, but have been overwhelmed by the choices. Moreover, none of the brands are in stock for me to try out anywhere within 100 miles of where I live.

While at SCI show Friday, I was able to check out Stone Glacier, KUIU, and Barney’s. I was expecting to fall in love with Stone Glacier, as many people I respect, including several of the guides and outfitters I’ve gone with, were enthusiastic supporters of the brand.

It was an immediate, “NO!” for me. The empty packs were uncomfortable, and the packs loaded with 20 pounds and 50 pounds were painful. Given that I was standing in their display booth, with their representative tweaking the pack to fit me as best it could, I knew that it was not for me. we did discovered that the X Curve frame was a better option for me than the flat (?) frame, but neither set up would work for my body.

The KUIU rep spent a lot of time with me to figure out that I needed a tall frame instead of a standard one. Neither one of us expected it, but that’s what it took to make the thing sort of work for me. I have a KUIU DIVIDE 1800 daypack with which I’m quite pleased, but this one didn’t speak to me. It was a bit heavier than I was thinking, and he made it a point several times to say that I would need a separate rain cover, which would not be included. I would imagine that’s the kind of thing they could throw in on the deal when they charge what they do for these items.

Barney’s booth looked fairly unassuming, as did the packs. At a glance, they look like extremely old school technology. When he handed it to me, though, I was shocked that it seemed to weigh even less than my day pack. I then noticed that the shoulder straps had 2 to 3 times the padding of any other packs I had tried on that day. The waist belt was not as thick as the others, but it was very wide, and distributed the weight far better around my hips and trunk than any other pack I’ve ever worn. The lumbar support, likewise, was not super thick, but seemed to give me padding right where I needed it. The UL packs were quite noticeably lighter than the other material, and I was told that they didn’t require a rain cover. Kevin offered a discount if purchased at the show, so I got out my card and wore the pack out of there.

The outfitter I hunted with in the Talkeetnas, and all of his guides, used Barney’s exclusively. My guide had been in that area 4 years doing 6 to 8 hunts a year, and said the packs held up just fine. He would chew up a pair of boots every season, but not the packs.

I was actually able to take the pack out for a 2 hour climb up Pinnacle Mountain in Arkansas yesterday. Though the pack was loaded only with day pack items, and was probably under 20 pounds total, it felt far, far better than the pack I’ve been using for many years. This was over varying kinds of terrain, and included close to half an hour of scrambling.

The hope was my backstory would be useful, but I could’ve just strongly suggested you physically try on as many packs as possible. Doing so lead me to a much different path than I was expecting.

Good luck to you,

FC

Thanks for detailed input. So the sail cloth material is essentially water proof for rain/snow Do you have the optional lumbar pad, or were you referring to the factory padding in the lumbar area.

 

[Folically_Challenged]

Whatever this one is:

https://imgur.com/a/SeOtBPd

https://imgur.com/a/Vcragxd

FC

 

[rickyw]

@Folically_Challenged , how is that ultra sail cloth material in the cold? Crinkly and loud?

 

[double_barrel]

Whatever this one is:

https://imgur.com/a/SeOtBPd

https://imgur.com/a/Vcragxd

FC

That's the optional lumbar pad.

 

[bojangles808]

I wouldnt support kifaru. Not that they've now been turned over to Utah private equity ownership, skimping on customer service and anyone that made them what they are today is gone, too many better options out there. have you looked at SG or Exo?

 

[double_barrel]

I wouldnt support kifaru. Not that they've now been turned over to Utah private equity ownership, skimping on customer service and anyone that made them what they are today is gone, too many better options out there. have you looked at SG or Exo?

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt because customer service was pretty good talking with me.

The SG I've heard the most complaints about fitment compared to the other big names. The EXO I hear a lot of guys say they have issues with the belt.

The Crossfire I've only heard good things, short of some in this thread. The Barneys I thought was a really nice pack judging by what I could see and the little information I found on here regarding it. It seems to be an esoteric piece, for lack of a better term.

Crossfire told me they could do the MKVII for 800 CAD, delivered. So now I'm thinking if the Kifaru is worth the 700 more.

The one person I haven't heard back from is Kevin at Barneys, so I might just give them a call tomorrow and see what his thoughts are.

 

[Jake Larsen]

I wouldnt support kifaru. Not that they've now been turned over to Utah private equity ownership, skimping on customer service and anyone that made them what they are today is gone, too many better options out there. have you looked at SG or Exo?

I’m not trying to be confrontational, but would like to point out a couple things. Bender still designs Kifaru packs. Their field testers still test, and their sewers are the same. The only thing that’s changed is the face and chief promoter of the company. The products are functionally no different than they were. Still a significant step up in terms of being designed and sown in the USA from all USA sourced materials. Cannot say the same of any of their competitors. Not to mention the change in ownership.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Folically_Challenged]

I did not have it below 50° yet, but it’s plenty crinkly at that temp when you are folding it or rolling it up. Once everything‘s in the pack andcinched down, I never heard it.

FC

 

[bojangles808]

I’m not trying to be confrontational, but would like to point out a couple things. Bender still designs Kifaru packs. Their field testers still test, and their sewers are the same. The only thing that’s changed is the face and chief promoter of the company. The products are functionally no different than they were. Still a significant step up in terms of being designed and sown in the USA from all USA sourced materials. Cannot say the same of any of their competitors. Not to mention the change in ownership.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

good points

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Never used the crossfire but I would throw that thing off of my list immediately. No load lifters and a short frame suck for everything but military use- if you just want to be uncomfortable on purpose you can spend a lot less money on an Alice pack and be just as miserable. There is a reason 9/10 people on here suggest Exo/kifaru/SG.

Barneys seems like a one trick pony as a load hauler. Or at least a heck of a lot of pack to haul around unless you really need the capacity and the frame for lashing down a large load.

Personally of those 3 kifaru is the only one I would even consider.

I have a Barney’s frame and I probably know where 15-20 other Barney’s frames are among acquaintances and friends. I’ve hauled a lot of moose and bear strapped to a Barney’s frame as have a lot of guys I know but I’ve never backpacked with a Barney’s pack and I don’t know anybody who he’s either.

I’ve seen pictures of people sheep hunting with them but I’ve only ever used them as a hauler. I read a book awhile back where a sheep hunter was saying he liked the bar way because the weight and bulk of the pack more than made up for itself when it came to hauling heavy loads out of the mountains.

I’d say try one first to see if it’s for you. I’m always looking for a 2nd hand bag for my Barney’s frame because I’d like to use it more but I don’t want to drop the $$$ for one of their brand new bags. Their stuff really shot up in price. When I bought my frame I picked one up for a buddy at the same time and they were 249.00 each. Now a frame is like 500 dollars and the whole packs are close to 1k.

 

[rickyw]

Their stuff really shot up in price. When I bought my frame I picked one up for a buddy at the same time and they were 249.00 each. Now a frame is like 500 dollars and the whole packs are close to 1k.

I don’t think that new pack made of the challenge sail cloth is worth the price either. It’s not that much lighter and it’s hundreds more than their regular material

 

[Blacktail_Brown]

Barney's is fantastic and I have one. But for 95% of my hunting it'd be like using a semi through a Starbucks drive-through.

I have the Exo 5k and it may be the best bag on the market right now for overall functionality. It has the best attachment points and one of the best frames.

I have the Kifaru Absoroka and Ark frame. The first Ark frames from Kifaru were more flexible and prototypes were similar to the Exo. Maybe it's just mine, but it's a lot stiffer and more rigid than I expected. The pack is great and frame is **good** but was expecting a bit more flex.

I also have a couple Stone Glacier. They're plain and stripped down. Simple attachments. I mostly loan them out.