Why is the .270 dying?

[180ls1]

My .270 has been my most killingest rifle, 20+ years.

When it came time for a new one the 6.5PRC seemed like the "modern .270" with the same recoil but small improvements everywhere. All of which add up - BC, Factory Ammo, Accuracy, Twist rate, Action length, etc...

I'd still use either in a heartbeat, even on a hunt of a lifetime but the 6.5 gets the nod more often.

 

[Dan Carey]

Improvement? That would be when the bullet cost less, went faster with less powder and performed better at a wider range of velocities.

 

[CMP70306]

George Gardner is still a businessman in the business of selling things, and has a very close relationship with Hornady, also very much a profit driven company. Again, if the intent were to only cater to a small group, the most serious of which already use custom barrels in whatever cartridge and twist they desire, it would be a very small market. Between George and Hornady they very carefully estimate potential markets and calculate the viability (profitability) before investing heavily on marketing any of them. It was surely a marketing selling point to have even less taper than any other “modern” cartridge - less than the Winchester short mags, RUMs, SAUMs, Rugers, etc. There’s no practical purpose to such straight walls other than to appear on paper as even more modern than the most modern of the competition.

If they wanted to benefit the shooting public, they could have supported the trend toward faster twists in standard cartridges and it seems every six months someone brings out another group of fast twist rifles without their help. To suggest legacy guns aren’t fast twist only applies if someone is only shooting legacy rifles, or the person doesn’t shoot enough to burn out barrels.

Marketing and advertising works - it’s actually genius for a reloading company to convince a generation to not reload and buy the much more profitable loaded ammo.

In reality the fast twist in legacy cartridges is at best maybe 5 years old? That would probably represent less than 1% of the total rifles chambered in those cartridges. And the only reason it is occurring is because it’s cheaper for the rifle manufacturer to stock more of the fast twist blanks for modern cartridges vs two separate blanks.

Supporting faster twists with different ammo would do far more harm than good for them. The number of people looking for that cutting edge in legacy cartridges with fast twist barrels that doesn’t already reload is practically non existent compared to the vastly more likely case that a large number of ignorant people will buy the ammo, shoot it in an older slow twist rifle then bash the ammo company and refuse to buy any more of their products.

It’s way easier for them to simply provide the bullets and tools to give people the option to hand load the ammo themselves. Considering how much reloading equipment they offer it’s hard to argue they are convincing people to not reload.

And I say this as someone who specifically built an 8 twist 30-06 so that I had the option to run subs and the 200+ gr high BC bullets.

 

[FredH]

Not just a twist discussion (because the 150 ELDx doesn’t need that much twist) but look no further than how the 7mm 150 ELDx and the 6.5 143 ELDx compare to the BC of the .277 145 as an exhibit of how 277 bullet options impede popularity of .277 bore cartridges.

So you feel the ability to use High BC bullets are why people choose their rifles and cartridges? Most cases that is unlikely.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Thank you for

A proper .277 150-grain BTSP starting at 2800 FPS is still at 1900 FPS at 500 yards.

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“Keep on keepin’ on…”

Good to know that the good ole Core Lokt is not a proper bulet. Hopefully Remington pulls them from the market based upon your insight.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Thank you for

Good to know that the good ole Core Lokt is not a proper bulet. Hopefully Remington pulls them from the market based upon your insight.

Assuming you are being honest in your attempt to compare like bullets, you have to admit that the 150-grain .277 CoreLokt is a round nosed design that is decidedly inferior at longer ranges to spitzer boat tails.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[FredH]

Thank you for

Good to know that the good ole Core Lokt is not a proper bulet. Hopefully Remington pulls them from the market based upon your insight.

Actually the RNCL is an excellent bullet for most deer hunting. I used it and the old Hornady 150 gr. RN for many years pushed to a measly 2600 fps. Less noise and recoil, plenty of power in east Texas.

 

[FredH]

Assuming you are being honest in your attempt to compare like bullets, you have to admit that the 150-grain .277 CoreLokt is a round nosed design that is decidedly inferior at longer ranges to spitzer boat tails.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

You should note the obvious, the 150 grain RN was never designed for longer ranges. It was designed for the deer hunting most of us did and still do. It has good penetration and the factory load is plenty good for 300 yard shots which is 150 yards further than most deer are shot every year.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Are you sure something didn’t get missed with your numbers?

View attachment 916654

The poster ( responded to asked about a 150 gr soft point and I gave numbers for the 150 gr Remingon soft point Core Lokt. I then gave more info in another post about dropping to a 140 gr Remington soft point Core Lokt gets you a lot further before hitting 1800 fps. Small change but potentially a big difference just like going with a purpose-built long range bullet such as the 150 gr ABLR.

While not my choice of bullet, the simple fact is the 150 gr soft point Core Lokt is acceptable for a lot of hunting conditions for a lot of hunters outside the realm of RS.

Maybe WY should require COTS 270 Win 150 gr Remington Soft Point Core Lokt ammo to enforce shot distance...

 

[wind gypsy]

So you feel the ability to use High BC bullets are why people choose their rifles and cartridges? Most cases that is unlikely.

I didn't say most but it absolutely is a factor for some. I said the 277 bullet options impedes it's popularity compared to 284 and 264 options. Meaning more people would buy/build 277 bore rifles if there were bullet options on par with what's available one bore diameter up and down. If joe 6 pack is buying a rifle and is told x cartridge performs about the same as y cartridge but it offers these new slippery bullets that are less impacted by wind and hold velocity better, that could be a deciding factor for some.

Intended projectiles has impacted every rifle/barrel/chamber choice i've made in the last decade but I know that isn't the norm.

Do you think 25 creedmoor standardization would have happened if it werent for high BC bullets? 25-06, 257 weatherby (now with fast twist rates), and a laundry list of popular quarter bore wildcats all came to be due to new high BC 25 cal bullets. I can get head stamped 25 GT and 25x47 brass as well. Why do you think that isn't happening at near the scale for 277s?

I do think the 270 would give up some of it's "lesser recoiling than a 30-06" allure if it were more tailored to heavier high bc bullets.

 

[whoami-72]

haven’t read the whole thread but in case this hasn’t been posted yet: https://backfire.tv/popular-cartridges/




Great post.

Thanks for the Info. I think that tracks closely to what has been said. It's popular in existing platforms so ammo sales are high but is not as common in new purchases.