Why is the .270 dying?

[CMP70306]

George Gardner is still a businessman in the business of selling things, and has a very close relationship with Hornady, also very much a profit driven company. Again, if the intent were to only cater to a small group, the most serious of which already use custom barrels in whatever cartridge and twist they desire, it would be a very small market. Between George and Hornady they very carefully estimate potential markets and calculate the viability (profitability) before investing heavily on marketing any of them. It was surely a marketing selling point to have even less taper than any other “modern” cartridge - less than the Winchester short mags, RUMs, SAUMs, Rugers, etc. There’s no practical purpose to such straight walls other than to appear on paper as even more modern than the most modern of the competition.

If they wanted to benefit the shooting public, they could have supported the trend toward faster twists in standard cartridges and it seems every six months someone brings out another group of fast twist rifles without their help. To suggest legacy guns aren’t fast twist only applies if someone is only shooting legacy rifles, or the person doesn’t shoot enough to burn out barrels.

Marketing and advertising works - it’s actually genius for a reloading company to convince a generation to not reload and buy the much more profitable loaded ammo.

In reality the fast twist in legacy cartridges is at best maybe 5 years old? That would probably represent less than 1% of the total rifles chambered in those cartridges. And the only reason it is occurring is because it’s cheaper for the rifle manufacturer to stock more of the fast twist blanks for modern cartridges vs two separate blanks.

Supporting faster twists with different ammo would do far more harm than good for them. The number of people looking for that cutting edge in legacy cartridges with fast twist barrels that doesn’t already reload is practically non existent compared to the vastly more likely case that a large number of ignorant people will buy the ammo, shoot it in an older slow twist rifle then bash the ammo company and refuse to buy any more of their products.

It’s way easier for them to simply provide the bullets and tools to give people the option to hand load the ammo themselves. Considering how much reloading equipment they offer it’s hard to argue they are convincing people to not reload.

And I say this as someone who specifically built an 8 twist 30-06 so that I had the option to run subs and the 200+ gr high BC bullets.

 

[FredH]

Not just a twist discussion (because the 150 ELDx doesn’t need that much twist) but look no further than how the 7mm 150 ELDx and the 6.5 143 ELDx compare to the BC of the .277 145 as an exhibit of how 277 bullet options impede popularity of .277 bore cartridges.

So you feel the ability to use High BC bullets are why people choose their rifles and cartridges? Most cases that is unlikely.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Thank you for

A proper .277 150-grain BTSP starting at 2800 FPS is still at 1900 FPS at 500 yards.

____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

Good to know that the good ole Core Lokt is not a proper bulet. Hopefully Remington pulls them from the market based upon your insight.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Thank you for

Good to know that the good ole Core Lokt is not a proper bulet. Hopefully Remington pulls them from the market based upon your insight.

Assuming you are being honest in your attempt to compare like bullets, you have to admit that the 150-grain .277 CoreLokt is a round nosed design that is decidedly inferior at longer ranges to spitzer boat tails.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[FredH]

Thank you for

Good to know that the good ole Core Lokt is not a proper bulet. Hopefully Remington pulls them from the market based upon your insight.

Actually the RNCL is an excellent bullet for most deer hunting. I used it and the old Hornady 150 gr. RN for many years pushed to a measly 2600 fps. Less noise and recoil, plenty of power in east Texas.

 

[FredH]

Assuming you are being honest in your attempt to compare like bullets, you have to admit that the 150-grain .277 CoreLokt is a round nosed design that is decidedly inferior at longer ranges to spitzer boat tails.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

You should note the obvious, the 150 grain RN was never designed for longer ranges. It was designed for the deer hunting most of us did and still do. It has good penetration and the factory load is plenty good for 300 yard shots which is 150 yards further than most deer are shot every year.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Are you sure something didn’t get missed with your numbers?

View attachment 916654

The poster ( responded to asked about a 150 gr soft point and I gave numbers for the 150 gr Remingon soft point Core Lokt. I then gave more info in another post about dropping to a 140 gr Remington soft point Core Lokt gets you a lot further before hitting 1800 fps. Small change but potentially a big difference just like going with a purpose-built long range bullet such as the 150 gr ABLR.

While not my choice of bullet, the simple fact is the 150 gr soft point Core Lokt is acceptable for a lot of hunting conditions for a lot of hunters outside the realm of RS.

Maybe WY should require COTS 270 Win 150 gr Remington Soft Point Core Lokt ammo to enforce shot distance...

 

[wind gypsy]

So you feel the ability to use High BC bullets are why people choose their rifles and cartridges? Most cases that is unlikely.

I didn't say most but it absolutely is a factor for some. I said the 277 bullet options impedes it's popularity compared to 284 and 264 options. Meaning more people would buy/build 277 bore rifles if there were bullet options on par with what's available one bore diameter up and down. If joe 6 pack is buying a rifle and is told x cartridge performs about the same as y cartridge but it offers these new slippery bullets that are less impacted by wind and hold velocity better, that could be a deciding factor for some.

Intended projectiles has impacted every rifle/barrel/chamber choice i've made in the last decade but I know that isn't the norm.

Do you think 25 creedmoor standardization would have happened if it werent for high BC bullets? 25-06, 257 weatherby (now with fast twist rates), and a laundry list of popular quarter bore wildcats all came to be due to new high BC 25 cal bullets. I can get head stamped 25 GT and 25x47 brass as well. Why do you think that isn't happening at near the scale for 277s?

I do think the 270 would give up some of it's "lesser recoiling than a 30-06" allure if it were more tailored to heavier high bc bullets.

 

[whoami-72]

haven’t read the whole thread but in case this hasn’t been posted yet: https://backfire.tv/popular-cartridges/




Great post.

Thanks for the Info. I think that tracks closely to what has been said. It's popular in existing platforms so ammo sales are high but is not as common in new purchases.

 

[kevingm1987]

A lot of people bought these calibers because its what their dad and grandpa shot. Pre-internet days. Magazine style. No one in my family really hunted, but my buddies dad did and I asked him, he told me to get a .270 so I did. I'm now a dad and when someone asks me what to get I will suggest 6.5cm or 6.8w, the 2 calibers I shoot. I'm bias and like them both. Still own my .270 and my .308 but they hang out in the safe for the most part.

Its not just the .270, its the 30-06 as well. Look at the big players in the semi custom market, Fierce, CA, Seekins, they aren't offering 30-06 in most of their new rifles as well.

No one that hunts under 400yds need to replace any of the old calibers with anything modern to be successful, but if you're just starting, there is nothing wrong with choosing a modern cartridge over its old school cousin.

 

[S-3 ranch]

Assuming you are being honest in your attempt to compare like bullets, you have to admit that the 150-grain .277 CoreLokt is a round nosed design that is decidedly inferior at longer ranges to spitzer boat tails.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

That’s not Remington that is round nose
But Hornady has a round nose 150gr 270win , and it’s pretty good pills for heavier game out to 250-300 yards

 

[Hunter270Win]

Since the .270 is almost dead can people send me their ammo, brass, bullets etc? I’ll make sure to bury them

 

[rifletuner]

The reality is that most rifles will last a hunter a lifetime. The gun and ammo companies know this very well. They also know that with a big marketing budget, they can sell a lot more rifles and components by continually releasing the the new best thing. I would say over the last 20-30 years, this cycle has ramped up substantially as it has proven to be a winner for sales.

Aside from potential gun bans during election cycles and the associated shortages, releasing new rifles and cartridges has been the biggest driver of sales for the outdoors industry over the past decades.

 

[whoami-72]

A lot of people bought these calibers because its what their dad and grandpa shot. Pre-internet days. Magazine style. No one in my family really hunted, but my buddies dad did and I asked him, he told me to get a .270 so I did. I'm now a dad and when someone asks me what to get I will suggest 6.5cm or 6.8w, the 2 calibers I shoot. I'm bias and like them both. Still own my .270 and my .308 but they hang out in the safe for the most part.

Its not just the .270, its the 30-06 as well. Look at the big players in the semi custom market, Fierce, CA, Seekins, they aren't offering 30-06 in most of their new rifles as well.

No one that hunts under 400yds need to replace any of the old calibers with anything modern to be successful, but if you're just starting, there is nothing wrong with choosing a modern cartridge over its old school cousin.

Haha you're right. I really wanted another .30-06 but the closest I could get with Seekins is a .308 which is why I have that now. I did specifically ask why they don't make a .30-06 or even .300 wsm and it is because they're following market trends on what sells.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

That’s not Remington that is round nose
But Hornady has a round nose 150gr 270win , and it’s pretty good pills for heavier game out to 250-300 yards

It sure looks like a round nose to me. Remington seems to think so too. That is one reason I usually preferred the 130-grain Core Lokt as cheap efficient hunting ammo, since it has the "Pointed Soft Point" and maintains 1800 FPS out to 500 yards (not that I have ever shot a game animal at that range, but we are talking about theoretical comparisons with "more modern cartridges." So comparing like with like is only fair. Comparing round nose loads with spitzers makes the .270 look much worse than it is.).

Buy Core-Lokt 270 Win Ammo | 150 Grain, 2850 FPS | Remington

Shopping for the Core-Lokt, 270 Win, 150 Grain, Core-Lokt Soft Point, 2850 fps - Learn more about the latest Shop All Calibers and other hunting or shooting gear at Remington.

www.remington.com

That's not to say that I don't agree with you on the effectiveness out to about 320 yards for the Core-Lokt Soft Point (that's approximately where it gets down to 1800 FPS, per Remington's data). But it is a round nose bullet in the Remington 150-grain Core-Lokt load. Which I why, when I used heavier bullets, I generally preferred to use the Federal Premium Vital-Shok .270 Winchester loaded with 150-grain Sierra GameKing Boat Tails in my .270s. It almost certainly didn't make a hill of beans difference to any whitetail I ever shot with my .270s, but I was happier with the choice of the round that was more effective if I ever chose to take a longer shot. Loaded with the 130- and 150-grain spitzers, the venerable old .270 more than holds its own against "modern modern cartridges" and is very cost effective.

 

[Steve O]

This certainly is entertaining.

Not 1% of the internet expert number crunchers can shoot well enough to use the theoretical advantage of all the new super cartridges. If I was forced to keep only one rifle and it was a .270 Win, I’d load up a pile of 140g Ballistic Tips, AccuBonds, and Swift A Frames and go forth and slay anything in North America. All my .270s have shot them into the same group at 100 yards and I’ve seen them (BT) crush my stone sheep at 393 yards (back when that was a LONG shot) and pulled an A Frames from the ham of a quartering to me mature Yukon bull moose.

The tipped Noslers match up to the dreaded Leupold and its B&C reticle out to 500 yards. Farther than that I’m not good enough (and neither are most) to be shooting and I’m quite OK with that. Guys that have not used the .270 can quote all the crummy numbers they want, the guys that have used it know how lethal it is and will not let it die…

 

[kevingm1987]

This certainly is entertaining.

Not 1% of the internet expert number crunchers can shoot well enough to use the theoretical advantage of all the new super cartridges. If I was forced to keep only one rifle and it was a .270 Win, I’d load up a pile of 140g Ballistic Tips, AccuBonds, and Swift A Frames and go forth and slay anything in North America. All my .270s have shot them into the same group at 100 yards and I’ve seen them (BT) crush my stone sheep at 393 yards (back when that was a LONG shot) and pulled an A Frames from the ham of a quartering to me mature Yukon bull moose.

The tipped Noslers match up to the dreaded Leupold and its B&C reticle out to 500 yards. Farther than that I’m not good enough (and neither are most) to be shooting and I’m quite OK with that. Guys that have not used the .270 can quote all the crummy numbers they want, the guys that have used it know how lethal it is and will not let it die…

Still have a lot of love for my .270 shooting a 130/140gn Nosler partition.

 

[JFK]

Some information.

270win Barnes 129gr LRX load that with solid dope (chrono’d and verified at range at various elevations)
At 1000’ elevation


At 7000’ elevation

And the McGuire ballistics load that I’ve only shot at 1000’ elevation and have only shot to 600yds for initial load develoment . Needs more shooting before I would call the below numbers fully vetted.


These are mono bullets, in a 1:10 twist barrel. You can do better with lead and fast twist barrel. Would never argue that 270 is the best as there have been a lot of meaningful advances in 100 years, but it’s no slouch.

 

[Pilsner]

But I also think marketing has a lot to do with it. Look at the 6.8 Western... by all measures that round should have been a welcome 270 upgrade. It packs a punch above the 6.5 PRC yet maintains the short action. Its biggest downfall was that it was not designed by Hornady.

More so than lacking the Hornady credentials is the piss-poor quality of Winchester ammo especially for something designed for long-range precision. Building something for LR work that is not supported by Hornady or Berger is going to make it die on the vine for everything except handloaders - and even then, finding quality head stamped brass is a very recent thing IIRC in the last 12 to 18 months from ADG.

 

[Pilsner]

Gotcha, can you explain further on slower twist rates? I haven't heard anyone bring this up before.

Most factory 270's have a twist rate that tops out at bullet weights of around 150 grains. Gotta have a non-SAAMI twist rate (faster twist) to stabilize the long, heavy for caliber bullets now available. Which means that it is a hand loader only option because what major manufacturer of ammo would bring to market a 270 bullet that wouldn't work in 99.99999% of 270 Win rifles ever made?