Why is the .270 dying?

[khuber84]

That’s due to the 6.8 Western, means they only need to stock one type of barrel to cut down on costs.

Same with browning now having an 8tw 7rem mag, trickle down of 7prc.

The fuds can dislike or not understand the new cartridges, but they're still pulling the old war horses into the modern era.

 

[Tanner]

It’s dying because the bullets in .277” for the most part suck hind tit, and cartridges that recoil far less deliver far more ass down range. Easy as that i

Comparing apples to oranges.

huh?

 

[roadrunner]

It’s dying because the bullets in .277” for the most part suck hind tit, and cartridges that recoil far less deliver far more ass down range. Easy as that i

huh?

example: a round nose 30-30 at 300 yds compared to a spire point .270 at 300 yds.

To say a smaller caliber with less recoil offers more than a .270 isn't necessarily telling the full story.

The .270 would need to have the same bullet design and flight parameters as the smaller caliber.

If the bullet weight and velocity "ratio" were 1:32 for the small caliber, it would need to be the same for the .270 as well. Either that or a design that will allow it the perform the same.

 

[TaperPin]

Or you could just listen to George Gardner, the owner of GA Precision who outlines why they developed the round.

As for the 7 & 300 PRC, the whole purpose is that they can easily use the long, high BC bullets with factory ammo in factory rifles. At no point could you buy factory 7 Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag loaded with the 180gr or 225gr class high BC bullets. I know this as I was hand loading the 212gr and 225gr ELD’s in my .300 WM since before the .300 PRC existed hence I haven’t felt the need to switch from the Win Mag.

For your other examples, the .22-250 sucks with AICS mags over 5 rounds and the majority are 12 or 14 twist drastically limiting any bullets over 60gr. The .260 had a standard 9 twist and was pretty much abandoned by Remington in less than 10 years. The .243 had an even worse 10 twist which pretty much eliminated the option of shooting any of the high BC bullets over 100gr.

Each of the Creedmoors and PRC’s has a tangible benefit over similar legacy cartridges to all but the most dedicated shooter willing to get a custom rifle made and handload ammo for it to get the same advantages with the older cartridges.



Considering the 145 ELD-X was specifically designed for the 10 twist of the 270 it would be more of an issue if it didn’t work.

I found out twist rates were a thing I should pay attention to when I loaded 105gr Berger Hybrids in a buddies .240 Weatherby, it would shoot 100gr soft points fantastic but that 105 hybrid would barely hit the broadside of a barn sideways at 50 yards.

George Gardner is still a businessman in the business of selling things, and has a very close relationship with Hornady, also very much a profit driven company. Again, if the intent were to only cater to a small group, the most serious of which already use custom barrels in whatever cartridge and twist they desire, it would be a very small market. Between George and Hornady they very carefully estimate potential markets and calculate the viability (profitability) before investing heavily on marketing any of them. It was surely a marketing selling point to have even less taper than any other “modern” cartridge - less than the Winchester short mags, RUMs, SAUMs, Rugers, etc. There’s no practical purpose to such straight walls other than to appear on paper as even more modern than the most modern of the competition.

If they wanted to benefit the shooting public, they could have supported the trend toward faster twists in standard cartridges and it seems every six months someone brings out another group of fast twist rifles without their help. To suggest legacy guns aren’t fast twist only applies if someone is only shooting legacy rifles, or the person doesn’t shoot enough to burn out barrels.

Marketing and advertising works - it’s actually genius for a reloading company to convince a generation to not reload and buy the much more profitable loaded ammo.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

That’s the .277 round nose bullet? They make them in spitzers too…


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“Keep on keepin’ on…”

The initial info was 150 grain soft point and I pulled the info for Remington 150 gr soft point core lokt.

A person can use the same bullet design, but a 140 gr, and get an additional 175 yards before hitting 1800 fps.

Use what makes sense for where you hunt. Lots of places this ammo is just fine. Other places it is lacking.

Folks can use their own apps to pull their own numbers.

 

[FredH]

Because if your hat has a flat brim you’re not allowed to own one.

This guy says otherwise.

picupload

 

[FredH]

The vast majority of .270 Winchesters are 1:10 twisted to shoot traditional tangent ogive 130-150 gr bullets. To make a .277 cal really shine, a heavier and longer secant ogive bullet makes it more ballisticly efficient. Those bullets need a faster twist to stabilize.

Well I guess. I have only a couple times shot past 400 yards in 50 years of hunting. It's called stalking.

 

[FredH]

If the long action is a real hindrance, how does one “modernize” it?


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

How does a long action hinder a rifle?

 

[FredH]

3 major things contribute:

1) Gun nuts reading and obsessing over every last ounce of BC, MV, energy, etc.

2) 100% of the factory rifles I'm aware of are 1:10 twist, so are limited in terms of high-BC bullets they can run.

2a) 100% of the off the shelf pre-fit barrels I'm aware of are 1:10 twist, so if you want a fast twist 270, you are special ordering and waiting a long time.

3) Because of 2, very few bullet makers have put the time and development into creating a wide selection of long sleek high-BC/high accuracy .277 bullets, and the ones that have only make a small number of offerings compared to 6.5 and 7mm and so-on.

So basically, all the gun nuts who obsess over every last thousandths point of BC end up deciding a 7 or 6.5 is better, and the ones that chase MV+BC go with 7PRC/6.5PRC (or 7Mag/6.5-284 if they are old school), and the ones that are less obsessed with MV go with 6.5CM and 7mm-08 (or 260 and 7x57 if they are old school - I'm in the 7x57 camp). That leaves non-gun-nuts buying the 270s and such, and the don't pressure manufacturers to changes points 2 or 3, so... status quo ensues.

My $0.02 - worth what you paid for it.

Non gun nuts outnumber rifle loonies by 12 to 1 at least.

 

[Tanner]

example: a round nose 30-30 at 300 yds compared to a spire point .270 at 300 yds.

To say a smaller caliber with less recoil offers more than a .270 isn't necessarily telling the full story.

The .270 would need to have the same bullet design and flight parameters as the smaller caliber.

If the bullet weight and velocity "ratio" were 1:32 for the small caliber, it would need to be the same for the .270 as well. Either that or a design that will allow it the perform the same.

If you have a .270 load that delivers a .697 G1 at 2650fps with 41gr of powder I would love to see it. I’d say that’s pretty much apples to apples…

 

[TaperPin]

Imho it’s more than marketing. You can’t just take the old cartridges and update the saami specs as it will cause issues with ammo not shooting in old guns already in the field. The average hunter is clueless on things like bc, twist rate.

I like the trend towards factory rifles having faster than SAAMI standard twists.

 

[Jellymon1]

This guy says otherwise.

picupload

Using the flat brimmer algorithm, aer=d, where a is the angle of the brim, e is the ego of the person, and r the radius of the bill, the douchebaginess of the person can be calculated. The man in the above picture rates very low on the flat brimmer scale and obviously owns multiple .270’s. In exhibit A below, we measure the flatness of the bill and can deduce that it is obviously not a flat brimmer’s hat, but the hat of a man that can handle a small .270 or 30/06 and not cry to his husband every time he jerks the trigger. A man that doesn’t need the likes of a hotspotting YouTube video to make himself feel special. A man that uses the tools that work for him and doesnt just blindly follow that guy on rokslide. And if you’ve made it this far with a chuckle or two, congrats on not taking things too seriously.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

How does a long action hinder a rifle?

I didn’t say it did. That was his assertion.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[Q_Sertorius]

The initial info was 150 grain soft point and I pulled the info for Remington 150 gr soft point core lokt.

A person can use the same bullet design, but a 140 gr, and get an additional 175 yards before hitting 1800 fps.

Use what makes sense for where you hunt. Lots of places this ammo is just fine. Other places it is lacking.

Folks can use their own apps to pull their own numbers.

A proper .277 150-grain BTSP starting at 2800 FPS is still at 1900 FPS at 500 yards.

____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[Bluefish]

I like the trend towards factory rifles having faster than SAAMI standard twists.

I agree that is good for the hand loader, but it won’t make factory ammo available. It can also cause issues with the twist being too fast for “normal” factory loads. I have a fast twist 25-06 and I can’t run light factory loads as rpm’s are too fast.

 

[TaperPin]

It’s not good.

Hits 1800 fps @ 349 yards which is bad. Wind drift is very bad.

But depending on where you hunt, the numbers up top can be just fine.

Are you sure something didn’t get missed with your numbers?

 

[wind gypsy]

haven’t read the whole thread but in case this hasn’t been posted yet: https://backfire.tv/popular-cartridges/

3 major things contribute:

1) Gun nuts reading and obsessing over every last ounce of BC, MV, energy, etc.

2) 100% of the factory rifles I'm aware of are 1:10 twist, so are limited in terms of high-BC bullets they can run.

2a) 100% of the off the shelf pre-fit barrels I'm aware of are 1:10 twist, so if you want a fast twist 270, you are special ordering and waiting a long time.

3) Because of 2, very few bullet makers have put the time and development into creating a wide selection of long sleek high-BC/high accuracy .277 bullets, and the ones that have only make a small number of offerings compared to 6.5 and 7mm and so-on.

So basically, all the gun nuts who obsess over every last thousandths point of BC end up deciding a 7 or 6.5 is better, and the ones that chase MV+BC go with 7PRC/6.5PRC (or 7Mag/6.5-284 if they are old school), and the ones that are less obsessed with MV go with 6.5CM and 7mm-08 (or 260 and 7x57 if they are old school - I'm in the 7x57 camp). That leaves non-gun-nuts buying the 270s and such, and the don't pressure manufacturers to changes points 2 or 3, so... status quo ensues.

My $0.02 - worth what you paid for it.

Great post.

 

[wind gypsy]

I won

I wonder if the high twist thing is over-rated. A standard tikka stabilses the 145 eldx no problem. Bingo - LR

Not just a twist discussion (because the 150 ELDx doesn’t need that much twist) but look no further than how the 7mm 150 ELDx and the 6.5 143 ELDx compare to the BC of the .277 145 as an exhibit of how 277 bullet options impede popularity of .277 bore cartridges.

 

[wind gypsy]

Honestly I’m not sure I’d want a 8 twist 270 if I were a factory ammo shooter. Would rather have a 10.

The 270 as is does fantastic for shots most of us have any business taking. Giving it 7mm type recoil with 170 grain pills would make it less enticing to me. Especially if I can get the same BCs as a 170 class 277 in a 130 class quarter bore.

 

[Lou270]

Not just a twist discussion (because the 150 ELDx doesn’t need that much twist) but look no further than how the 7mm 150 ELDx and the 6.5 143 ELDx compare to the BC of the .277 145 as an exhibit of how 277 bullet options impede popularity of .277 bore cartridges.

270 Berger, Nosler, Barnes, and Sierra high bc hunting bullets are right in there with 6.5 and 7. For ex the 175 tgk is .633 for .270 vs .632 for 180 7mm tgk. Hornady so far has not released a heavy eldx 27 offering. The 145 eldx litz BC for this bullet actually tested higher (.55 or .57 dont remember).

Lou