Why are American branded trucks and most American branded vehicles so unreliable?

[Jbrow327]

Freedom. Or the lack of for the Japanese.

What does Japan and freedom have to do with Mexican made "American" trucks and American made "Japanese" trucks.

 

[Woozy]

It’s a crap shoot with any of them American or not nowadays.

 

[redcorn65]

Because people can’t comprehend basic preventive maintenance and actually taking care of things.


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[realunlucky]

@RedSnow @Jbrow327 refrain from taking this thread into the weeds

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[Jbrow327]

@RedSnow @Jbrow327 refrain from taking this thread into the weeds

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Sorry

 

[D_Dubya]

We run a fleet of 75 or so vehicles, primarily Chevy Express vans, Toyota Tacomas and Nissan frontiers. Very few problems with any of them any more, especially the last 10 years or so. I try to cycle them out by 150k. it has become very rare that any of them have major issues in the 3-4 years it takes to cycle through.

 

[Broadjumper]

country of origin does not dictate quality.

I must disagree. Japanese work ethic/culture is totally different, as is their approach to manufacturing and product. Visit a Japanese manufacturing plant as opposed to some others and the differences are glaringly obvious. Lots of problems with US imports into Australia as buying bigger SUVs from the states is becoming more common. I might add we down under pay 3 and a half times as much for the same vehicles as you do. . They are particularly popular for towing boats, and avoid needing things like GVM upgrades so popular (and necessary) on vehicles such as 200 & 300 series landcruisers.

 

[ZAK13]

I can't speak for others, but I bought a Ranger new back in 2002, and put over 370k on it before I sold it, had to replace the 4wd control module in it, and normal wear & tear stuff, but it ran good. Now own a Ram 1500 and put 225k on it, did have the issue with the cam and #3 cylinder, got that fixed under warranty, but other than that, it runs good. I think when I'm ready, I'll try a Tundra next, as everyone I know who has one, really likes them.

 

[Wolf88]

Conversely, why are Japanese trucks and vehicles so reliable?

What is your reliability experience with both American and Japanese trucks?

I own a business that fixes this stuff everyday.

Less reliable?
No.
This is a complete superficial perception based on the 1980's ...particularly the early 80's...when you could barely hear a Honda Accord idling yet a Ford Fairmont and or a Chevy Citation would be noisy and leaking oil at 65k miles.

Now in the rust belt you had junk yards full of Honda cars with Engines because the cars couldn't handle the salt and nobody needed an engine. Meanwhile the Ford, Chevy, Chrysler cars all had missing engines as they were needed as the cars could handle the salt better.


Fast forward today...
That is no longer the case.
Matter of fact it might even be worse for the three Japanese companies.
We see less Titans, Tacoma/4runner/Tundra, Honda SUV's but they get fixed as much or more

 

[Iowafarmer]

I own 3 fords 254000, 235000, 126000 mi minimal amount of repairs and my 2 f350’s work for a living I have no complaints

 

[Crusader]

Thank you Sapcut.

I don't profess to know every defect or recall situation but based on experience there are 3-4 things that can cause problematic vehicle issues.

1) A design with features that allow a product to fail. I know at Nissan we, (like most other OEM's) review the designs, test the designs in a lab environment subjecting it to specified performance requirements, and also send engineers out in the field with our first build vehicles to see how they do. We drive the mess out of them and send them to places like Alaska to the deserts in Arizona - attempting to find any potential concerns. All requirements are met before the vehicle is released. How poor designs make it past this type of testing.......I really don't know.

2) Manufacturing parts outside the design specification. If this happens, obviously it's possible that the part can fail. OEM's try to assure proper testing and inspection are being done during the manufacture or vehicle parts but whenever people are involved with a process, there is the possibility for something to go wrong.

3) Improper install at the assembly plant. Again, whenever people are involved with a process, it's possible for something to not be done properly. Nissan tests every vehicle on a performance track before it leaves the plant (at least in the US - can't speak for other plants, and they go through a shower test in an effort to determine is all of the door seals and other items are working properly before the vehicle ships.) I'm sure other OEM's do this but I can't say for certain.

It is my personal opinion no one should purchase a new vehicle and have any issues for the first 100,00 miles other than normal maintenance. After that is kind of depends on what was purchased and how it was treated and maintained. That part of the vehicle purchase equation is on the vehicle company.

To me, the second part of the equation belongs to the consumer. If a consumer goes out and purchases a vehicle without doing any homework ahead of time to see what people are saying about a product they are interested in, that's not a good practice. If they do their research and hear of issues but purchase the vehicle anyway - it is not their fault if something bad happens, but at the same time, they should not be surprised to run into those type of issues. An informed consumer can decide what risk/reward they are most comfortable with before making a vehicle purchase decision.

A simple example of what I'm trying to say is this. I was interested in a Fierce rifle. It looked cool, had the accuracy and weight requirements I was looking for in the price range I was comfortable with. After doing some research I saw where some people loved them, and some people hated them. I weighted all of that out and decided for myself to get a different rifle. Had I bought one, I still deserved a good, solid rifle but had I had issues, I should not have been shocked by having that experience (my opinion).

In the end - consumers decide if a company stays in business or not.

So I have a question for you, given your considerable experience and expertise with Nissan products and their quality control processes and the like. This is not a shot at you or anything, just an honest question. In November of 2022 Consumer Reports posted an article about the most reliable new cars, as they do every year. Their data for the study came from owners of over 300,000 cars amongst 24 brands made between the years of 2000 and 2022. Nissan was rated the 15th most-reliable brand. So if data/studies like that (and maybe others) exist with those Nissan results, why does Nissan not make improvements and be a more reliable brand? Is it because their sales are enough to please management and so they're content to be where they are, quality-wise? Just thought I'd see what an "insider" might have to say on that.

 

[madgrad02]

4 runners/tundras are terrorists trucks and Toyota knowingly and purposely sold new trucks to ISIS and other terrorist organizations on many occasions. All you anti Americans need take a closer look in the mirror and decide if your anti American/union logic suits you or the people who would rather not see people unionize or demand better. The Japanese don't even make full size trucks? Man bun sized tonka trucks? Some of y'all living life back in 80s tv commercials

Maybe that was the case, but everyone knows they're rolling in the $85 billion with of military vehicles brandon just abandon there these days.. upgrade I guess.

 

[displacedtexan]

Think about a jar full of 1000000 marbles, a mix of white ones and red ones. Say I don't let you peek at the jar but I let you pick 3 marbles out of the jar and then tell you, based solely on those 3, to estimate the percentage of marbles in the jar that are red. Even if the entire jar is well mixed and 70% white, you could still happen to pull out 2 or 3 reds, which would give you a very inaccurate picture of what's actually in the jar. In the same way, your handful of ford trucks that work great don't provide any usable information about the reliability of all ford trucks sold in the timespan in which you bought yours. It makes sense to use personal information if that's all you have, but when it comes to comparing reliability of two groups of many millions of cars each it's basically irrelevant. As the number of data points increases you slowly approach greater probability that your dataset represents the whole thing, and you certainly don't need to get anywhere near 1000000 to make accurate reliability estimates. This is supposed to be informative, not combative, hopefully it comes across that way, but the internet is a bastard when it comes to conveying tone and nuance, so I'm just gonna state it plainly. I'm certainly happy you've had good luck with your trucks, and not implying Ford is terrible. My view is that in the last 10-15 years American manufacturers have closed the gap quite a bit and that while they're not blowing Japanese cars out of the water like Japanese cars did to US made ones 25-30 years ago, they're probably more or less on par.

If you want to look at numbers...

Remember that around 70% of trucks sold are from the Big 3... So I'd expect to see more trucks from them with issues.

 

[2531usmc]

I've worked with a lot of great people that were in unions. I've also had some pretty bad experiences. So has my father. He's also been threatened. I would bet the majority of people take pride in their work and do a good job. It's the people who don't that are protected by the union that give the whole thing a bad wrap. My biggest problem with the unions is that sometimes the pay does not line up with the skill needed for the job. That's where the $50/hr lug nut guy comes to mind. I also don't buy into seniority is king. That doesn't matter, It's just my opinion. God bless the guy making $50/hr to do something stupid. I could have chose to do the same thing and retired with a fat pension. I'm the "smart" one. I'll probably be eating cat food when my 401k tanks.

The UAW work rules pushed GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy and Obama bailed them out with our tax dollars

it looks like the newly elected UAW president is planning to repeat the process

 

[Sapcut]

^^^^^ sho did.

 

[Nbowlin]

Corporate pride in riches vs Pride in product.

Side note coming from 17 years of auto repair.......they all suck

 

[Dean757]

The variables in the real world are too numerous to put overwhelming confidence in any brand.

Consider how a vehicle is used, locations, temperature variables, terrain, maintenance, etc... Take 100 of any new vehicle and track them for the first 100k miles. Consider the variety of driving from rentals, soccer moms, old conservatives, brand new drivers, etc.

When I bought my Town & Country it was appx $5k cheaper than the honda/Toyota equivalents. It had 28k on it. Now has 109k+. Battery, tires, transmission coolant line, thermostat, oil changes, brakes, EVAP canister. I did a solid 100k tuneup myself... Plugs, egr valve, coil packs, cleaned throttle body.

I love it. The stow n go is awesome. Sleep in it camping in winters.

It's supposed to be one of the most unreliable vehicles yet its been awesome for me and never left me stranded. I'm not unrealistic... I expect tranny or engine issues soon but with the $5k saved over the Toyota / Honda that covers major repairs.

It replaced a 2009 Honda Accord that gave me probs and left me stranded at 65k miles.

However, the most reliable vehicle I've ever seen is my buddies 2008 FJ Cruiser with 416k orig miles on orig engine / tranny and zero repairs. He's the 2nd owner. Thing runs like a top smooth as silk. Crazy. Nearly impossible to find a 3.6 pentastar with those miles still running strong.

 

[Wolf88]

The UAW work rules pushed GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy and Obama bailed them out with our tax dollars

it looks like the newly elected UAW president is planning to repeat the process

LOL...
Some of this is true but what's not said is GM is/was a bunch of arrogant fat cats that "want their's"...
Example..
I had a sit-down with a very high executive from GM who's name I'll leave out and he said we just can't figure out why we aren't selling as many units as before.
This was in 2000.

I said well it's not hard to figure out. In 1980 uou had how many car companies.
In 2000 that number increases by 800 percent. At least.
The car buying public increased by 1-2 percent.

Something has to give.
Thus Olds, Geo, Hummer got the axe.

Then... whoever the moron was to shitcan Pontiac and keep Buick should've been doing janitorial work.
Pontiac was loved by guys, gals, several age brackets...etc.
Who buys Buick? Old people. No matter how many commercials they do with a young girl coming out and can't find her friend sitting in a Buick...yeah that didn't make a dent.
Buick is such a backed in tiny market segment and what we have is GM forever chasing it's tail and 5 years late to the party. Every time all the time.

The other thing with GM that's ridiculous is this...
The Buick Regal. Oh we'll have Opel make this for us so it's really good but we'll make them most of our stuff.

Chevy cruze same thing. That car is all Korean but with GM stuff.

Look at how well Hyundai had done and their present reputation but they build cars with their stuff.

Chrysler...
Wants to be a big boy but always comes to the game with a little league bat.
They had something going with a full size rear wheel drive car.
But nope...we have to be in every size car segment just because. Compact? Caliber compass...mid size .avenger...

They just can't be happy and do a few things really well and that's that and let Jeep who carries them be Jeep. Nope!

At both companies we have executives making crucial decisions stealing an absurd paycheck and it will never get better.

 

[ELKhunter60]

So I have a question for you, given your considerable experience and expertise with Nissan products and their quality control processes and the like. This is not a shot at you or anything, just an honest question. In November of 2022 Consumer Reports posted an article about the most reliable new cars, as they do every year. Their data for the study came from owners of over 300,000 cars amongst 24 brands made between the years of 2000 and 2022. Nissan was rated the 15th most-reliable brand. So if data/studies like that (and maybe others) exist with those Nissan results, why does Nissan not make improvements and be a more reliable brand? Is it because their sales are enough to please management and so they're content to be where they are, quality-wise? Just thought I'd see what an "insider" might have to say on that.

No, your question is completely understandable. I don't take offense. Honestly - as an employee with a passion for quality, this is a thought for me as well. Keep in mind I'm one person out of a sea of executives and engineers. I don't know all of the details on every concern or JD Power negative feedback but I do have an opinion (like everyone).

We talk about the customer a lot at Nissan. We ask ourselves what would the customer care about. What would the customer be willing to pay for and what would they not care so much about. This focus drives a lot of our decisions. I have NEVER heard ANYONE say it's acceptable for a customer to need a tow truck, but we do ask ourselves things like "how many wrinkles in a seat are ok?" How long can the wrinkles be, how deep? Things like that.

I'm honestly not sure why our ratings aren't higher. I do know we weight things like engine performance compared to fuel efficiency. Options to offer the customer vs what the customer we are targeting is willing to pay for that option........contracts we have with suppliers vs customer demand. A LOT of factors go into our final product like all OEM's. We don't get it right every time - but I am proud of our product and really love the people I work with. Focus on quality is not just a job for the "quality people", all management at the plant are responsible for quality and speak to it whenever their area of responsibility is involved with a quality improvement opportunity.

 

[mikeafeagin22]

My first truck was a ‘97 Silverado 2500 with the 6.5 diesel in it. I got it when it had 250k miles on it and I treated it like a redheaded stepchild.. got rid of it when I went to college and never had a single problem with it.
Bought a jeep grand cherokee from my parents after that.. my mom got it used with 100k miles on it and I got it from her when it was right at 200k. Drove that for 5 years and put another 60k miles on it then sold it to a kid that drove it for a few years before it went out on him.
Just got rid of a 2016 duramax that I got new and put 160k miles on it. Never had a single thing ever go wrong on that truck. I worked out of it daily, it’s been on elk hunts to Idaho, Montana, and Colorado so it was used and abused.
We’ve got a ‘96 Cummings thats our main farm truck that has well over 300k miles on it and it fires up in a heartbeat and still has enough power to pull a house.
Guess what I’m trying to get at is I’ve had quite a few American vehicles that I’ve put a crap ton of miles on and I’ve never had any reliability issues with them.
I did buy one of those little honda trucks for a run around work truck though and that thing was the worst vehicle I’ve ever owned. Every time I started it up there was a new light popping up on the dash. Don’t know if I just had a lemon or what but i sent it down the road pretty quickly.