Why are American branded trucks and most American branded vehicles so unreliable?

[wesfromky]

What would the customer be willing to pay for and what would they not care so much about. This focus drives a lot of our decisions.

So, what are the odds of a new Xterra with all the frontier updates rolled in? The seem to have a solid following and the market could use a viable alternative to the 4runner. I am probably going to buy a Pro4x late this summer / early fall, but if there was a 2024 xterra coming, that might get me to wait a bit.

I had two (2000 and 2006), and while one has a couple of issues, they were far and away my favorite vehicles. Was kinda sad when I heard they were discontinued.

 

[sneaky]

No idea why that's historically been the case, but the paradigm seems to have shifted some. There's tons of studies and objective reports out there that rank vehicle reliability though, and an interesting trend has emerged in the last 10-ish years or so. Honda no longer has all of their vehicles ranked in the top 3 for reliability. They have a few select vehicles that are (CRV, Civic), but as a whole, Honda reliability in recent years as a company has taken a hit. Toyota is no longer the reliability powerhouse, and most recent "ratings websites" (JD Power type sites) actually rank the Tacoma below the Ford Ranger and Chevy Colorado. Lots of reports of performance issues with recent Tacos and Tundras unfortunately.

In fact, I've been researching the mid-sized pickups as my next daily driver (currently in a half-ton and have no use for the additional capacity, but wish my wheelbase was shorter and my stance was narrower for mountain use), and there's lots of reports from places like Australia that the new standard for the Overland rigs that live in the bush is the Ford Ranger. The Ranger was only discontinued in the US Market for that 10 year span, and continued everywhere else, and there's lots of reports that it out does the new Tacomas in that environment. Just one example, but the more I research, the more I fall out of love with Toyota.

First Gen Tacos are a different conversation, but anything newer than the late 2000's and it seems that lots of the Japanese brands have fallen off the proverbial Totem Pole they were on top of for so long.

Why did Toyotas fall off lately? Because they are made here lol

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[GringoBling]

Not a truck, but we just got a brand new transmission for my wife's Expedition. Started having issues with at 42,000 miles. The cam phasers also were problematic from the start and were recalled...twice. I've never heard of a vehicle failing so early on. Love the look of her Expedition, but not sure I'd buy Ford again anytime soon.

 

[IdahoBeav]

First Gen Tacos are a different conversation, but anything newer than the late 2000's and it seems that lots of the Japanese brands have fallen off the proverbial Totem Pole they were on top of for so long.

First gen are the ones with the frame rust issue, and before that Toyota offered the 3.0 V6, which was a POS. With that said, the 1st gens and the older pickups (22R) were still great rigs, but the 2nd & 3rd gens, if anything, are more reliable than the older. Go look up the 500k mile Tacoma on the TW forum. When I bought my '14 new off the lot, I skipped on a warranty, and 135k miles later, the most I have spent on it for maintenance or repairs in one sitting is about $100 for the gear oil I put in the differentials and transfer case. The thing just doesn't miss a beat.

 

[5811]

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/toyota-tacoma-ranks-dead-last-reliability-among-midsize-trucks/

 

[Jbrow327]

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/toyota-tacoma-ranks-dead-last-reliability-among-midsize-trucks/

• Toyota recall for lower ball joint issues – reported by 278 owners
• Automatic transmission may not shift correctly at high mileages – reported by 254 owners
• Amber running/parking lights melted, cracked, and burned the lens directly in front of them – reported by 202 owners

This is cut and pasted from the article. So there isn't any drivetrain failures on there. Also, this isn't that many people compared to the amount of Toyota Tacomas that are fine. Ford still has 3 million recalls for an actual drivetrain issue.

 

[IdahoBeav]

Not a truck, but we just got a brand new transmission for my wife's Expedition. Started having issues with at 42,000 miles. The cam phasers also were problematic from the start and were recalled...twice. I've never heard of a vehicle failing so early on. Love the look of her Expedition, but not sure I'd buy Ford again anytime soon.

My wife has a 2020 Expedition we bought brand new. From the factory, it had three separate issues of incomplete assembly. Luckily it was all minor and non mechanical items, but it makes me worry what else may have been missed.

Also, the fuel mileage is pretty bad for a 4 cyl. Of course, the MPG reader in the dash reads about 2-3 higher than hand calcs.

 

[rkcdvm]

It pains me to say this but my experience is similar. I've had multiple trucks from foreign companies and never had an issue with them (Nissan & Toyota.)
I've had 3 American trucks (The GM's gmc & Chevy , and a Ford) : All 3 of the American brand trucks had catastrophic failures before 50,000 miles and all were manufacture defects. The Silverado I have now had to have a new engine at 6,000 miles. I will say that all of the American companies accepted fault and paid for the repairs. I know there are lemons and to be honest, it matters more to me that they stated the problem was on their end and they fixed the problems as fast as they could. Obviously that has been my experience. I still love my Chevy and I loved the GMC I had too. I didn't really like the Ford after driving it for a couple of years but that is a personal preference and not a negative comment on the company or their product.

 

[ELKhunter60]

So, what are the odds of a new Xterra with all the frontier updates rolled in? The seem to have a solid following and the market could use a viable alternative to the 4runner. I am probably going to buy a Pro4x late this summer / early fall, but if there was a 2024 xterra coming, that might get me to wait a bit.

I had two (2000 and 2006), and while one has a couple of issues, they were far and away my favorite vehicles. Was kinda sad when I heard they were discontinued.

OH MAN! Now you are hitting me close to home! I drive a 2007 4WD with 167,000 miles on it. Uses 1/2 quart every 3500 miles. Just runs......I don't know if they do it anymore, but the Canton Mississippi Plant (where I used to work and where the last one rolled off the line in 2015) used to ask the VP's this question every time they came to visit. The first few years after we quit making them the VP's would just chuckle at us and tell us they couldn't do it due to fuel regulations (don't ask - I know we still make other vehicles with worse MPG). Now when we ask the VP's smirk and admit it's been discussed. My personal opinion is we will never see another new model Xterra with a combustible engine in it - but we may see an EV. I have not heard this from anyone at Nissan - it's just my opinion. I love my Xterra. It's nothing fancy but it has just been a solid ride that gets me where I need to go without fail.

The other thing that kills me is we make this really cool "outback" type truck in Australia. It actually kind of reminds me of the 1980's version 4WD Toyota Tacoma. I happened to see one when I was in Japan for a trial build on a different program but when I saw it I was like "man, that is cool!" Again, nothing fancy - just a cool looking truck that a lot of backcountry hunter type dudes would love - but we don't sell them in the U.S. Seems like we should consider it. At least do a market interest study or something..........

 

[Terrance Lee]

I have 278,000 miles on my 99 GMC pickup and 318,000 on my 2004 Toyota Land Crusier. Bought both of them used with about 150,000 miles. Only minor issues with each, I do my maintinence and prevent problems or catch them early. Love them both for different reasons..

 

[wesfromky]

OH MAN! Now you are hitting me close to home! I drive a 2007 4WD with 167,000 miles on it. Uses 1/2 quart every 3500 miles. Just runs......I don't know if they do it anymore, but the Canton Mississippi Plant (where I used to work and where the last one rolled off the line in 2015) used to ask the VP's this question every time they came to visit. The first few years after we quit making them the VP's would just chuckle at us and tell us they couldn't do it due to fuel regulations (don't ask - I know we still make other vehicles with worse MPG). Now when we ask the VP's smirk and admit it's been discussed. My personal opinion is we will never see another new model Xterra with a combustible engine in it - but we may see an EV. I have not heard this from anyone at Nissan - it's just my opinion. I love my Xterra. It's nothing fancy but it has just been a solid ride that gets me where I need to go without fail.

The other thing that kills me is we make this really cool "outback" type truck in Australia. It actually kind of reminds me of the 1980's version 4WD Toyota Tacoma. I happened to see one when I was in Japan for a trial build on a different program but when I saw it I was like "man, that is cool!" Again, nothing fancy - just a cool looking truck that a lot of backcountry hunter type dudes would love - but we don't sell them in the U.S. Seems like we should consider it. At least do a market interest study or something..........

My 2000 saw a lot of miles and adventures for sure. Didn't have the 2008 as long, but it also was a perfect suv for what we were doing.

I guess the frontier pro4x will have to do - though they look pretty sweet and I expect it will last a lot of miles as well. One other bit of feedback - I wish they would still offer the pro4x trim in the king cab, or at least offer factory rear lockers as an option on the other trims.

 

[Sapcut]

I have 278,000 miles on my 99 GMC pickup and 318,000 on my 2004 Toyota Land Crusier. Bought both of them used with about 150,000 miles. Only minor issues with each, I do my maintinence and prevent problems or catch them early. Love them both for different reasons..

I think that 99 GMC is like the best truck ever rolled off the line….

wanna sell your land cruiser?

 

[Thinkingman]

First gen are the ones with the frame rust issue, and before that Toyota offered the 3.0 V6, which was a POS. With that said, the 1st gens and the older pickups (22R) were still great rigs, but the 2nd & 3rd gens, if anything, are more reliable than the older. Go look up the 500k mile Tacoma on the TW forum. When I bought my '14 new off the lot, I skipped on a warranty, and 135k miles later, the most I have spent on it for maintenance or repairs in one sitting is about $100 for the gear oil I put in the differentials and transfer case. The thing just doesn't miss a beat.

2006 Tacomas were definitely under-engineered. They started the leaf spring recall and were most definitely rust buckets.

 

[Thinkingman]

If you spend a lot of time on washboard roads, you may want to consider this....Tacoma Death Valley Test

 

[D S 319]

Consumerism something something.

 

[sneaky]

If you spend a lot of time on washboard roads, you may want to consider this....Tacoma Death Valley Test

So, you post a link up to an article about a freaking shock that failed on a Tacoma? Toyota doesn't build shocks, in case you wanna back up and try again. Wtf does a Bilstein shock failure have to do with Toyota quality? Bilsteins are on a high percentage of vehicles being built. If you don't like Toyotas, that's one thing. Posting links to garbage articles like that is another thing entirely.

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[sneaky]

2006 Tacomas were definitely under-engineered. They started the leaf spring recall and were most definitely rust buckets.

Haven't had either of those issues with my 06 Tacoma. Take it over any 06 domestic truck without any hesitation.

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[2531usmc]

So, you post a link up to an article about a freaking shock that failed on a Tacoma? Toyota doesn't build shocks, in case you wanna back up and try again. Wtf does a Bilstein shock failure have to do with Toyota quality? Bilsteins are on a high percentage of vehicles being built. If you don't like Toyotas, that's one thing. Posting links to garbage articles like that is another thing entirely.

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Yeah, I thought that video was pretty bogus also. No commercial vehicle can be great (bulletproof) in all conditions all the time. a commercial truck needs to go off-road sometimes but is mostly driven on pavement. And rememer, it still has to be affordable and meet govt requirements for fuel, emissions, etc

if you really want a bulletproof vehicle for all conditions all the time, you really need to buy a military, mil spec, vehicle at $300k a pop

 

[5MilesBack]

First gen are the ones with the frame rust issue, and before that Toyota offered the 3.0 V6, which was a POS.

Going on 35 years with that POS 3.0L V6. Never had a problem with it. It's still my daily driver.

 

[Cheesy]

Bought a 2003 Z71 new. In 230k miles and 10 years of ownership, I rebuilt the water pump and resoldered in some new guages on the dash. That was it for repairs.

Bought a 2006 6.0 (6.oh-no, 6.blow) Powerstroke in 2011 with 40k miles on it. At 100k miles I did head studs, egr delete, oil cooler, and a handful of other common 6.0 stuff pre-emptively. It will turn 200k miles in a month or so. Repairs have been an alternator and a few other little nickle and dime stuff that didn't amount to anything to fix on my own.

2012 Yukon, bought with 60k miles, sold with 200k miles. Didn't do anything that amounted to anything for repairs.

2007 Z71 bought new, sold with 100k miles. No issues requiring repair, ran like a top, but it drank oil as was typical in those early AFM engines.

Dad bought a 2006 Z71 new, has 180k on it now. leaky rear main seal, but not enough to make him fix it yet. No other major issues.

Currently have a 2020 Tundra with 70k miles. Haven't done anything to it other than stop at every gas station it sees.

Wife drives a 2018 Infiniti QX80. Bought with 30k miles, has 120k on it now. Haven't done anything.

Drove a salvage titled Civic from 90k to 300k on it until it blew up the clutch. Should fix it, but will probably salvage it just because it is a 22 year old car with 300k miles.

Based on all those, my experience is if you keep up on maintenance, most any make seems pretty decent.