Which scope as a new host for the THLR reticle?

[wnelson14]

Just asking because I’m curious, do we expect some of these companies to do a complete redesign in order to survive the drop test? It seems much easier to convince a company to just add a reticle to a known good scope?

Not calling out GPO or Kowa, but some of the suggestions so far are for companies that aren’t historically known for being robust and reliable.

Yes I was thinking complete redesign and influence from Ryan and Form, basically a whole new business model for the scope line. It’s far fetched but this was a thread about a new scope so I was throwing out ideas of optics companies that don’t seem to focus on rifle scopes.

 

[TxLite]

Interested to know what they say!

They just sent a response to my request from this morning-

“Thank you for your support of Trijicon and thank you for the recommendation. I have recorded your request for future product consideration. In the meantime, I would recommend looking into the 3-18x44 FFP Tenmile riflescope to see if it would fit your needs.”

 

[sndmn11]

LOW won't respond to your emails unless you've been in business for 3 years and have enough sales/ employees, so starting a company from scratch is not an option. Tried that this summer.....

In the rifle scope business, optic business, or just "in business"?

 

[fwafwow]

My guess is that like most companies, they get unsolicited advice, complaints, product questions, requests etc. all of the time, and it’s hard for them to separate the wheat from the chaff. They can’t dedicate someone with enough knowledge (or authority) to review all of the inquiries, so they are left with having AI or front line low-level employees to merely respond (at best).

While I love the optimism, my guess is that unless someone personally knows an executive or principal at a company, we are dreaming. But without the effort, I agree nothing happens

 

[ResearchinStuff]

In the rifle scope business, optic business, or just "in business"

riflescope business.

 

[Reburn]

Dog we can’t even crowdfund enough ammo to do a drop test

#truth

 

[Dobermann]

Hmm ... lots to think about here. I have some different ideas; just adding for discussion, not to start a fight.

Someone here should just start a scope brand, or talk @Ryan Avery into it.

I'm not personally convinced about this. Just look at the rash of new scope brands of the last few years alone - Riton, Arken, Element, Swamp Fox, Athlon, and so on ... frankly, I think it's getting kinda silly. There's also a lot of work in setting up overheads, marketing, and so on for a new company, when we could just use an existing one.

I think there is enough industry networking in enough people at/on Rokslide that the right entity to manufacturer is one of two degrees away.

I'd hope so. But the key thing is they'd have to listen ... some industry people have spoken with Form, and not listened. And we know of at least two reticle designers who've had scope companies approach them to design a reticle just for them ... and then those companies haven't listened. There are opposite examples as well (ZCO with Nick), but there'd have to be some way to ensure the scope company doesn't cluck it up.

I do think there'd be a hard decision to buy if it went over $999. I think it would be in a much better market around $599. I say that knowing how popular Vortex and Leupold are due to being "affordable". If folks really want to change the consumer mindset into demanding reliability, you have to show them that they can afford to pay for it. Otherwise the mindset will continue of "I can't afford a Nightforce, I'm just a hunter, etc."

For the 'perfect' scope? I'm not so sure. For context, Bushnell sold the LHRS2 for $1615, while GAP had them listed until only recently at $959. While that platform is chunkier than we want, it's getting close, and reliability is up there ... so $1000 looks like it could be possible. The Tenmile 3-18x44 shows up for me as under $1500 at EuroOptic. Not sure what it's usual retail is; I get a first responder discount. But again suggests $1500 is both doable for a pricepoint on both the supply and demand sides. And I'm not sure this project is about changing the consumer mindset to demand reliability at a cheap price - we already have the SWFA 3-9 as a vehicle to do that. It's worked for many, but not for mass take-up ... and I'm fine with that.

I think both Tract and Maven COULD do it tomorrow, far more than capable. I think it would be a huge pill to swallow because then they would be insulting their existing products.

Have we seen either of them pass a drop test?

I think Bushnell could do it as well, just revive the 3-12 elite tactical.

Nightforce has no need to do anything like that.

I agree! And even though the LRTS/LRHS 3-12 was slightly chunky too, if it had the THLR reticle, that's possibly all I'd run for a hunting scope.

I don't think trijicon is capable because there seems to be at least one person there that approves nonsensical product line features (ten mile vs HX) and would likely screw it up.

Maybe, but the that still shows that they know how to do it right for the ones they get right. Even if they just put the THLR reticle in the Tenmile 3-18x44, I'd go for that - it's a little long, but 24.4 oz / 692 grams is about as good as we've seen so far.

 

[sndmn11]

Have we seen either of them pass a drop test?

I believe it's just a matter of design specification. The OEMs are capable, the brands haven't chosen reliability as the priority and compromising for weight, cost, "features", etc.

 

[fwafwow]

Have we seen either of them pass a drop test?

Tract has failed, the test and to follow through on RS in other ways.

 

[ID_Matt]

Few people mentioned Maven.... spoke with them at an NRL competition and they had something very similar to what we are all wanting. Usable FFP reticle, capped windage, 3-15ish, under 24 oz. Were aware of the drop tests and working on that. Sounded like the scope is a go and coming soon, big question is if it'll pass

 

[TxLite]

Few people mentioned Maven.... spoke with them at an NRL competition and they had something very similar to what we are all wanting. Usable FFP reticle, capped windage, 3-15ish, under 24 oz. Were aware of the drop tests and working on that. Sounded like the scope is a go and coming soon, big question is if it'll pass

Are they going to offer Mil?

 

[JCMCUBIC]

Form nailed the specs. With that in mind, considering what's currently out there, and the likelihood of a manufacturer implementing the suggestions...going through the lineup:

SWFA: Great reticle already but they might put in another, reliable scope already, already produce scopes on both sides of the 3-12 suggestion with a 3-15 (a bit heavy) and 3-9 (nice weight). Implement the reticle, cap windage on 3-9, add a zero stop....but a 3-12 would be an entirely new scope. All that said, they can't get enough of what they currently have to keep stock. Would they pursue a new one if they can't get the current? Seems doubtful to me.

Nightforce: The NXS and SHV lines are SFP except for some rare 3-15's and more common 4-14 SHV's. A 3-12 would be an entirely new scope and change to FFP. Historically, NF seems to have a dedicated company focus on producing reliable scopes...and terrible hunting reticles. I wish they would do it but I'm doubtful.

S&B: Their current version 3-12x42 would be a good candidate as a starting point. It would require a pretty good overhaul to correct the issue of limited erector travel. I use 2 of them with BDC dials and have had to work around it. They've made limited runs in the past. I'm not sure if they would be willing to overhaul the limited elevation issue without going to a greater than 30mm tube...but they might. Regardless, I doubt it would be available for less than $2000. I'd still jump if they did...

Bushnell: The original Elite LRHS 3-12x44 was probably the closest production model I've used and owned. Swap the reticle and it's done (assuming reliability is maintained). So many good design points with this scope for hunting. I think it would be the most likely route to come through, the most time efficient, and the most $ efficient.

 

[ID_Matt]

Are they going to offer Mil?

The version I fondled was.

 

[bojangles808]

Bushnell is pretty active with a social media guy on the long range reddit forum maybe they'd listen. they also sent out a match pro to drop test here recently, although it did fail. So they have to have some line of communication with Ryan, and are open to feedback.

 

[amassi]

Form nailed the specs. With that in mind, considering what's currently out there, and the likelihood of a manufacturer implementing the suggestions...going through the lineup:

SWFA: Great reticle already but they might put in another, reliable scope already, already produce scopes on both sides of the 3-12 suggestion with a 3-15 (a bit heavy) and 3-9 (nice weight). Implement the reticle, cap windage on 3-9, add a zero stop....but a 3-12 would be an entirely new scope. All that said, they can't get enough of what they currently have to keep stock. Would they pursue a new one if they can't get the current? Seems doubtful to me.

Nightforce: The NXS and SHV lines are SFP except for some rare 3-15's and more common 4-14 SHV's. A 3-12 would be an entirely new scope and change to FFP. Historically, NF seems to have a dedicated company focus on producing reliable scopes...and terrible hunting reticles. I wish they would do it but I'm doubtful.

S&B: Their current version 3-12x42 would be a good candidate as a starting point. It would require a pretty good overhaul to correct the issue of limited erector travel. I use 2 of them with BDC dials and have had to work around it. They've made limited runs in the past. I'm not sure if they would be willing to overhaul the limited elevation issue without going to a greater than 30mm tube...but they might. Regardless, I doubt it would be available for less than $2000. I'd still jump if they did...

Bushnell: The original Elite LRHS 3-12x44 was probably the closest production model I've used and owned. Swap the reticle and it's done (assuming reliability is maintained). So many good design points with this scope for hunting. I think it would be the most likely route to come through, the most time efficient, and the most $ efficient.

We don’t know if SWFA can’t get what they order or aren’t ordering due to a potential change as has been Alluded to or CBA.


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[JCMCUBIC]

We don’t know if SWFA can’t get what they order or aren’t ordering due to a potential change as has been Alluded to or CBA.


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True. They may have a massive order in for an updated version. ...but...you can still backorder the 3-9 right now. I would think they'd remove that if they weren't going to be available. "We don't know" is all we can say.

 

[Dobermann]

I believe it's just a matter of design specification. The OEMs are capable, the brands haven't chosen reliability as the priority and compromising for weight, cost, "features", etc.

Yep ... but then that could also be said about all the other brands.

 

[Dobermann]

Few people mentioned Maven.... spoke with them at an NRL competition and they had something very similar to what we are all wanting. Usable FFP reticle, capped windage, 3-15ish, under 24 oz. Were aware of the drop tests and working on that. Sounded like the scope is a go and coming soon, big question is if it'll pass

And if it will have the THLR reticle ... there's others that come close to the specs, and they shouldn't really be that hard to nail if a company really tried. But the THLR reticle is what would really set this scope concept apart.

 

[freddyG]

What kind of royalty will have to be paid to Thomas for the THLR reticle? Nightforce would likely do a run of an existing scope with a different reticle, as long as there is a commitment to a large order. Kind of like a gunwerks g7 run.

 

[Formidilosus]

What kind of royalty will have to be paid to Thomas for the THLR reticle? Nightforce would likely do a run of an existing scope with a different reticle, as long as there is a commitment to a large order. Kind of like a gunwerks g7 run.

No. They have not been interested.