Which scope as a new host for the THLR reticle?

[Dobermann]

Right, so we have @Formidilosus's thorough write-up of the Minox ZP5 with @THLR's amazing reticle: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/minox-zp5-5-25x56mm-thlr-field-evaluation.253283/

And probably the best repository of information about this scope and reticle on the net: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/q-a-for-minox-zp5-5-25x56mm-thlr-scope.253284/

I've only had mine in hand for a couple of weeks, and love the reticle even more in person. Thomas is a smart man; Form has translated some of his thinking to be even more accessible to us.

But, as both have noted, in the 5-25x56 form, the ZP5 is a tank at a quoted 970 g / 34.4 oz. Even if Minox put it in the ZP5 3-15 x 50, that only drops 50 grams to 920 g / 32.4 oz.

Given the recent Rokslide-influenced successes of the UM Tikka scope rings, and the Stockys Rok Stock, I'm wondering if we'd have any chance of convincing a scope manufacturer to use the THLR reticle in a more hunting-friendly scope.

If so, I have four key questions:
1. What would be the overall specs?
2. Is there an existing scope that would work as it is with this reticle?
3. Which manufacturers are even open to including other reticles in their offerings?
4. How many of y'all would buy one (or more)?

Interested in your ideas.

My initial starting points:

For question 1, I'd be happy with Form's 'recipe' from 14 Oct 2021:

Here’s the recipe-

1). Mid power 3 or 4x in the low end, 12-16x on the high end.

2). 30mm, 42-45mm objective.

3). sub 24oz weight

4. Specifically designed and built to stay zeroed through impacts and drops.

5). Locking or zero stopped low pro elevation turret, capped windage designed and built for consistent and repeatable use

6). Front focal plane, Mil/Mil with a reticle that is specially designed for low and high power visibility. Cut to the chase and use the THLR reticle from @THLR

7. Large, forgiving eyebox, large FOV if possible.


Then take that scope and actually test them versus the “tests” that everyone does, before placing on the market

For 2, my main criteria would be that we'd need a top-end magnification, and proper reticle calibration, to make the features of the THLR reticle usable at the mag ranges.

I'm not sure we have an existing scope format that works off the shelf, but perhaps the Bushnell LRHS or Trijicon Tenmile are currently the closest options? From my end, while I love the SWFA 3-9 for what it does, the glass isn't quite there for me at distance with my ageing eyes ... so a slight step up could be good (this is assuming we got everything else right first, including durability, of course).

For 3, I think people have said that Nightforce is not interested in others' reticles ... but possibly that Form said somewhere here that some manufacturers would be if there was cash up front. Do we know who they'd be?

For 4, I'm personally in for at least three.

Any other reflections? Anyone want to take this on as a project?

 

[HighUintas]

I would bet Maven would be interested.

I'd buy one if low end was 3x and it was really affordable and holds zero. Bells and whistles I don't give 2 shtz about

 

[mj23polaris]

Didn't gunwerks/revic just come out with a new scope with a similar reticle? Maybe they could do it?

More scaled down version of it to meet the mag/weight requirement

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[woods89]

I think Nightforce needs to make a 3-10 SHV FFP with this reticle.

I've emailed them requesting it. Got a non-committal email back from them, lol.

Watching the Rok Stock process made me wish we could get them to do the same thing.

 

[Antares]

Nightforce should make an NXS 3-12x42mm mil/mil FFP scope w/ the THLR reticle. That would be tits.

 

[Shraggs]

Agree with form and your spec desires.

Seems S&B and swfa aren’t the best platform, logically NF and trijicon.

Tenmile seems a great option and they may be most likely to gamble. I also own and agree the NF shv f1 at that price point would be nearly ideal too, just the weight.

These smallish companies, I understand the math of major overhead and development to do this for potentially cult ie low volume sales. And therefore accept upfront money or unit commitments.

But, if the “presence” of rokslide were to lend this place as a platform so to speak, with its greater reach and ability to educate the value if such a reticle eases the burden of a sponsoring manufacturer marketing cost as a possible offset.

 

[ChrisAU]

Nightforce should make an NXS 3-12x42mm mil/mil FFP scope w/ the THLR reticle. That would be tits.

Covered windage, zero stop….hnnnggg

 

[eric1115]

Bushnell did the lrhs2 (with the slightly funky donut reticle) for GAP, maybe there is some flexibility there? I know the lrhs I have is a great scope that I've been very pleased with.

 

[TxLite]

Covered windage, zero stop….hnnnggg

20oz or less
Take my money

 

[Antares]

Covered windage, zero stop….hnnnggg

The NXS already has a zero stop. Halfway there!

 

[TxLite]

Trijicon has a ffp credo that might be a good candidate. 2-10x36, ffp, 23oz, toolless zero stop, capped windage. Though admittedly I’d like a bigger objective. Preferably like a 42mm. Maybe they could pull the ffp guts and stick it in the 2.5-15x42 credo?

CR1036-C-2900038 | Trijicon®

Trijicon® products are known for offering legendary reliability, absolute accuracy and industry-leading technology to shooting enthusiasts, law enforcement agencies and the U.S. military and its allies.

www.trijicon.com

 

[Mountainrancher]

I’d think maven or tract could do this. Would they? It really depends on how many they could sell. The biggest issue for getting a rok scope made is that the manufacturing and maybe even the engineering needs to be done over seas and that adds cost and complication. The rings from um and stockys stock are easier for them to make as they can do all or almost all of it in house. They aren’t relying on getting a containers worth from Japan and hoping they can sell them. It would be cool to see one of these smaller company’s sit down with form and others and make the perfect scope. As far as existing scopes the trijicon tenmile 3-18x44 would be pretty rad if it had a Thlr reticle in it.

 

[amassi]

I’d think maven or tract could do this. Would they? It really depends on how many they could sell. The biggest issue for getting a rok scope made is that the manufacturing and maybe even the engineering needs to be done over seas and that adds cost and complication. The rings from um and stockys stock are easier for them to make as they can do all or almost all of it in house. They aren’t relying on getting a containers worth from Japan and hoping they can sell them. It would be cool to see one of these smaller company’s sit down with form and others and make the perfect scope. As far as existing scopes the trijicon tenmile 3-18x44 would be pretty rad if it had a Thlr reticle in it.

We know from experience one of them won’t…. The one that asked us what we all wanted then built it’s 180* opposite, came back for feedback 2 or 3 times and never.
Personally the tenmile would check all my boxes if they moved the windage posts in from 2000 mils (jk) down to 5 or 6. And ditched the tree in favor of a post and 6~ mils of vertical hash.
I don’t know who’s holding wind at 160 mph but trijicons ready.


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[Brandon.miller.4]

Count me in for a ffp NXS 3-15x42 in as compact of a size as possible with that reticle. Think nxs 2.5-10 with a little more top end magnification. Throw the atacr turret lock on there while you're at it. My atacr is the best compromise I've found but I wouldn't complain about a better reticle and a I have no need for a 34mm tube.

 

[fwafwow]

I’d think maven or tract could do this. Would they? It really depends on how many they could sell. The biggest issue for getting a rok scope made is that the manufacturing and maybe even the engineering needs to be done over seas and that adds cost and complication. The rings from um and stockys stock are easier for them to make as they can do all or almost all of it in house. They aren’t relying on getting a containers worth from Japan and hoping they can sell them. It would be cool to see one of these smaller company’s sit down with form and others and make the perfect scope. As far as existing scopes the trijicon tenmile 3-18x44 would be pretty rad if it had a Thlr reticle in it.

Tract had zero interest in the drop test, so for me, I don’t care what reticle they would add.

 

[TxLite]

Tenmile seems a great option and they may be most likely to gamble.

This is a good point. I often forget they collaborated with primary arms and made Acogs with their ACSS reticles.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Formidilious’ recipe is certainly an answer to what users expect.

Leupold should step up to the engineering challenge and resurrect their reputation. If they pull this off, they’d own the scope market. Period. Sincerely doubt they have the corporate will or engineers capable of solving the problem based on their past history.

Maven. Doubtful. They don’t listen.

Nightforce. Doubtful. They have the ‘best’ QC and engineering, but seemingly can’t grasp simplicity and what truly is useful.

Trijicon has the potential. They listen, engineer, test and are on the way to delivering broad spectrum products that function and are useful.

SWFA. Who knows. They could deliver, but their business model doesn’t yield a lot of confidence.

 

[JollyRoger]

I’d be stoked with the ATACR 4-16x42 as it stands with that reticle. Not lightweight but almost perfect in every over way. Same for an NXS 3-15 with capped windage.

An SWFA would be rad but I don’t know if we will ever see that level of change any time soon. How long have people been asking them for things like zero stops and capped windage?

Someone above mentioned a revised Bushnell LRHS or Trijicon Tenmile. Make it to the right specs and it would be a seller (at least here)

 

[wnelson14]

Leupold should step up to the engineering challenge and resurrect their reputation. If they pull this off, they’d own the scope market. Period. Sincerely doubt they have the corporate will or engineers capable of solving the problem based on their past history.

Maven. Doubtful. They don’t listen.

Nightforce. Doubtful. They have the ‘best’ QC and engineering, but seemingly can’t grasp simplicity and what truly is useful.

Trijicon has the potential. They listen, engineer, test and are on the way to delivering broad spectrum products that function and are useful.

SWFA. Who knows. They could deliver, but their business model doesn’t yield a lot of confidence.

The comeback that Leupold could capitalize on would be unreal.

 

[HighUintas]

We know from experience one of them won’t…. The one that asked us what we all wanted then built it’s 180* opposite, came back for feedback 2 or 3 times and never.
Personally the tenmile would check all my boxes if they moved the windage posts in from 2000 mils (jk) down to 5 or 6. And ditched the tree in favor of a post and 6~ mils of vertical hash.
I don’t know who’s holding wind at 160 mph but trijicons ready.


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I'm guessing from your post it was Maven that asked and built the 180* scope? What thread did that happen in?