Which Bullets to use? ELD-m "Murder bullets" for everything?

[mxgsfmdpx]

They also have 3 hearts so you don’t even really need to aim.

 

[Castle Rock]

View attachment 734411

Walmart giraffe

 

[plebe]

They also have 3 hearts so you don’t even really need to aim.

Just 1, but substantial:

According to the San Diego Zoo, a giraffe's heart is 2 feet (0.6 m) long and weighs about 25 lbs. (11 kg).

 

[AZ_Hunter]

Just 1, but substantial:

According to the San Diego Zoo, a giraffe's heart is 2 feet (0.6 m) long and weighs about 25 lbs. (11 kg).

That’s a big target.

 

[Nine Banger]

Just 1, but substantial:

According to the San Diego Zoo, a giraffe's heart is 2 feet (0.6 m) long and weighs about 25 lbs. (11 kg).

If they only knew we were using their site for hunting research...

 

[MattB]

Giraffes are not 4 feet through the chest, they’re not 3 feet through the chest. They are about 2 feet through the chest. Just like with deer, elk, moose, goats, etc- African animals are widely exaggerated as to their dimensions.




Thats bit true. There are 6mm bullets that will penetrate 4 feet of tissue. In any case- there is not arrow that is more “lethal” than just about any caliber big game bullet. The hitting that arrows kill different, or they are different is nonsense.

A 6mm 115gr DTAC will penetrate both lungs of a giraffe from nearly in legitimate angle- and might actually exit on a broadside shot.





Penetration is a consideration for all animals. My point was there is no need to exaggerate the size or depth of them not make it some mythical creature.

I wish Ryan the best, but I hope he doesn’t figure out the hard way why some countries/provinces/outfitter have 3 different minimum caliber/energy requirements for 3 species that all weigh ~2,000# - eland, giraffe, and cape buffalo. While they have similar weights, they are not similarly dimensioned and giraffe and cape buffalo have physical attributes which make penetration more challenging.

I say that based on feedback from a friend who has been a PH in Africa for pushing 30 years. For his bowhunters, he recommends the same broadhead design and arrow weight for giraffe as he does for cape buffalo (800-1,000 grs). Not the case for eland (which actually do top out at just over 2’ wide), for which the same arrows hunters use for smaller plains game work fine (400-500 gr).

 

[Jt89]

Good God Almighty I struggle with the endless banter back and forth about the relevance of a particular calibre or headstamp killing a 4 foot wide giraffe. The actual number of members of this forum who can and or will go and shoot a giraffe to see exactly what it takes for one to die must be so low, @Ryan Avery could count them with the holes in his crocs. How many times do we need to see how violently a .223 TMK behaves inside a bear, bull moose, elephant seal/whatever else for it to sink into our thick skulls that animals really aren't armour plated?

I've seen a possum take 5 shots to the body with a .22lr and not fall out of a pine tree. But a .45-70 got one down. Must be the right gun for the job - that sumbitch was dead, gutted and fur plucked all in one. Couldn't get a follow up shot on his buddy though

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

I wish Ryan the best, but I hope he doesn’t figure out the hard way why some countries/provinces/outfitter have 3 different minimum caliber/energy requirements for 3 species that all weigh ~2,000# - eland, giraffe, and cape buffalo. While they have similar weights, they are not similarly dimensioned and giraffe and cape buffalo have physical attributes which make penetration more challenging.

I say that based on feedback from a friend who has been a PH in Africa for pushing 30 years. For his bowhunters, he recommends the same broadhead design and arrow weight for giraffe as he does for cape buffalo (800-1,000 grs). Not the case for eland (which actually do top out at just over 2’ wide), for which the same arrows hunters use for smaller plains game work fine (400-500 gr).

How dare you disrupt the echo chamber..

 

[Jhedum]

I use 140 ELD-M’s out of my 6.5CM with great success on antelope and deer out to 700 yards. That being said they have been broadside shots and exploded inside the animals. My last antelope at 660 yards the bullet did not leave the back side.

I have a 7mm Remington Magnum I load with Barnes 150 TTSX when I am hunting something larger for the comfort factor. Sure, an ELD-M can do it, but why not drive deeper and be able to blast through a shoulder of a larger bodied animal.

My suggestion, have one rifle set up for a monolithic or at least bonded bullet in the event you need to drive a bullet far into a large animal.

 

[Big_wals]

Walmart giraffe

Are you sure? I dont see an electric scooter anywhere…..

 

[Big_wals]

A 115 DTAC out of a 6UM couldn't possibly work....

I think about that every time these endless bullet/cartridge discussions come up. Some people seem to forget that literally every animal they’re arguing about, from whitetail does to cape buffalo, gets killed every year by a razor blade on the end of a stick.
Edited to add: with only around 70 to 80 ft lbs of energy.

 

[plebe]

For shots of 150yds and closer on deer, I’d like to hear more on the ELDs vs soft points. Why choose an ELD-M or ELD-X when they cost more? Let’s say in a 20-22” 6.5 Creedmoor, something common enough to make the discussion broader than Giraffe hunting. Not that Giraffe isn’t interesting, but to round out the discussion a bit.

 

[LongWayAround]

Is that a mature male and are animal’s dimensions the same when they are on their feet and when they are laying down?

That seems like a reasonable question. Per the San Diego Zoo link, those things have lungs that hold twelve gallons. I would expect deflating that volume from inside the chest would effect on their dimensions.

 

[lelliott8]

For shots of 150yds and closer on deer, I’d like to hear more on the ELDs vs soft points. Why choose an ELD-M or ELD-X when they cost more? Let’s say in a 20-22” 6.5 Creedmoor, something common enough to make the discussion broader than Giraffe hunting. Not that Giraffe isn’t interesting, but to round out the discussion a bit.

I dont think there is anyone telling you not to shoot a corelokt or powershok at a deer from 150 yards. The ELD-M is probably preferred in the long range forum because of its higher BC.

 

[Big_wals]

I listen to Ryan talk about Murder Bullets. Most of my guns shoot ELD-m the most accurately. Is it really that easy? It would sure save money, space around the house and my time to just use ELD-ms.

My plan:
.223/5.56 77gr TMK or 73 gr ELD-m
6mm ARC 108 gr ELD-m AR rifle with a thermal for hogs
6mm Creedmoor 108 or 109 ELD-m plus some 115gr Dtacs from UM to try
6UM (When I get it) 109 ELD-m and 115gr Dtac
6.5 Creedmoor 140 ELD-m
6.5 PRC 147 ELD-m plus some 156gr EOL to try
308 178gr ELD-m I never shoot 308 anymore but my friend does. I am going to upgrade him from 150gr Core Lokt

These last 3 rifles were purchased recently because I was bored and will eventually be going to Africa next year to hunt antelope and maybe Warthogs. No dangerous game. Bigger calibers to keep the PH happy. They will never get used until right before we go.

30-06 178gr ELD-m For reference the rifle likes Winchester factory 190gr AB LR better
300 PRC 225gr ELD-m
375 H&H Hornady 300gr DGX or maybe some Barnes TSX. Just for fun I ordered a barrel for my Encore I plan to use to make a Hobbit Rifle,

Comments
I see some people say the ELD-m might not be the best for close range as they explode at high velocity. Most of what we shoot here in Florida are Whitetail and Hogs at 150 yards or less. Does that information affect the choice of an ELD-m?

I don't do necropsies or wound analysis but the only real outrageous devastating wound channels I have ever noticed were from a 6.5 Creedmoor shooting a 140gr Nosler Partition and from a 30-06 shooting a Buffalo Bore 150gr Spitzer softpoint at 3100 fps

Not sure how this immediately devolved into a discussion about shooting a giraffe with a nose-ring dtac, neither of those was mentioned in the OP.

To the op, you said most of your shots are at 150 or less. Do you shoot targets at longer ranges than that? I personally would go with a corelokt or Hornady interlock if that’s as far as I was going to shoot, unless you like to ring steel at longer ranges and would like to use one bullet for everything. But if your rifles shoot eldms more accurately, use whatever makes you happy. They will kill stuff just fine.

 

[Boltgun]

I took a 6.5 CM with ELDX, and killed lots of big animals including a giraffe, although I shot it in the neck.

Our PHs were not familiar with ELDX or ELDM. They were incredibly experienced, but new things take a bit to catch on. At the end of the trip, one of them actually suggested we hunt cape buff with a 6.5 PRC and ELDx. They were pretty impressed by the performance.

 

[Liftman101]

Not sure how this immediately devolved into a discussion about shooting a giraffe with a nose-ring dtac, neither of those was mentioned in the OP.

To the op, you said most of your shots are at 150 or less. Do you shoot targets at longer ranges than that? I personally would go with a corelokt or Hornady interlock if that’s as far as I was going to shoot, unless you like to ring steel at longer ranges and would like to use one bullet for everything. But if your rifles shoot eldms more accurately, use whatever makes you happy. They will kill stuff just fine.

It was my fault for bringing up Ryan and his desire to shoot a giraffe. You are at the core of my question and what I was really trying to ask. I always have ELD-m around for my 6 and 6.5 Creed as well as my 6.5 PRC, 308, 30-06, and 300PRC. They shoot great in all my rifles. Inside 200 yards I hardly need high BC bullets so should I choose something else. In my limited experience with animals I have shot or got to see being butchered there were only a few that stood out. Nosler Partitions in the 6.5 Creedmoor and 308 created massive wounds. I find it hard to believe anything could have worked better. I also used a Buffalo Bore 150gr Spitzer soft point out of a short barrel 308 that created some very notable damage vs what I was used to seeing.

 

[Harvey_NW]

In my limited experience with animals I have shot or got to see being butchered there were only a few that stood out. Nosler Partitions in the 6.5 Creedmoor and 308 created massive wounds. I find it hard to believe anything could have worked better.

IIRC, Form referred to Partitions as the best bullet ever made in one of the S2H podcasts. If you don't need the BC advantage they might be your huckleberry.

 

[xsn10s]

My late buddy killed quite a few elk over in Sumpter Oregon with a 308 Win and a 165gr partition. Including his largest bull. 300 yards or less.

 

[Bowfinn]

That seems like a reasonable question. Per the San Diego Zoo link, those things have lungs that hold twelve gallons. I would expect deflating that volume from inside the chest would effect on their dimensions.

Generally speaking ribs will hold their shape regardless of what’s happening inside or outside if they are not fractured.