What's wrong with more grizzlies in Idaho?

[Article 4]

I hope there is a lower 48 grizz season one day.

As far as less elk year after year. Where? Elk are doing great overall. Many of the states with Grizz bears offer more than 1 tag per person.

Elk populations are decent...They have changed their rut activities in some areas and some completely silent in others.

Imagine what they would be like without the unchecked predation

 

[wyosam]

The odds should be zero especially since we’re talking about man-made reintroduction. That said, I’m equally or more adamant than you about protecting wildlife when it’s not dangerous. We’d be in complete agreement if the species in question was an herbivore. If the last jackalopes were being wiped out I wouldn’t just say oh well they should have evolved better. I’d be actively protecting them.

Grizzlies are nearly impossible to kill without gunpowder. If left alone they will expand their range on their own. Don’t dare accelerate the process. The reduction in their numbers is why walking through the woods to grandmothers house is a sure thing - even in your places where people live “near” grizzlies there’s still WAY less than there were before we came along. That allows us the peace of mind to farm, recreate, relax, invent things, develop skills, train dogs, leave horses unattended for a bit, put a mosquito net over the baby’s hammock and leave it outside to go check on dinner in the oven. There’s literally a zillion reasons why less giant BEARS is a good thing. Do you really want your fellow American to share the man eating predator worries of rural Africans?

Reintroducing giant predators (which costs OUR tax money and makes life more difficult) is a very easily defeated argument. You think they’re awesome, I do agree. But they should be several hours driving distance from any of us. You might think tons of people live in grizzly country just fine but they actually don’t live AMONGST the bears -they’re 15 miles away on the other side of a range. It used to be 60 miles away and that’s how it should be. Once it goes down to 5 miles or once there’s grizzly poop in backyards, NOBODY is letting their kid sleep outside in a fort he built with sticks and stocked with tuna fish and bologna sandwiches. That’s when your cool idea makes people prisoners in their own houses.

Prisoners in their own houses . Impossible to kill without gun powder? Again, kids play outside. People walk through the woods- lots of them, most not hunters and most not armed. Just living their lives, not being the star of a kids book. “Near”? Lots of people in grizzly habitat in the lower 48, Canada, AK. Not near, in. Many of those places grizzlies are doing very well, because we don’t manage them effectively. Even in AK where they are hunted, there are a LOT of brown bears. They are hunted, but not enough to really affect numbers because they are really expensive for non-residents, most don’t eat them, and bear rugs are expensive and not something you need very many of. There’s a den not far from my house that I walk my dogs within 75 yards of most days. I live in Anchorage.

People DO have grizzly scat in their yards. My last house in Wyoming, and my current home included. Kids play outside, kids build forts and sleep outside. We pay attention to food sources, and kids grow up knowing some basic bear avoidance (like not keeping food in the tent/fort). Do you really think bears follow some arbitrary boundary around places humans live? I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but humans live in a lot of the landscape.


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[TADSR]

100 PERCENT. SPOT ON

 

[Blowdowner]

Prisoners in their own houses . Impossible to kill without gun powder? Again, kids play outside. People walk through the woods- lots of them, most not hunters and most not armed. Just living their lives, not being the star of a kids book. “Near”? Lots of people in grizzly habitat in the lower 48, Canada, AK. Not near, in. Many of those places grizzlies are doing very well, because we don’t manage them effectively. Even in AK where they are hunted, there are a LOT of brown bears. They are hunted, but not enough to really affect numbers because they are really expensive for non-residents, most don’t eat them, and bear rugs are expensive and not something you need very many of. There’s a den not far from my house that I walk my dogs within 75 yards of most days. I live in Anchorage.

People DO have grizzly scat in their yards. My last house in Wyoming, and my current home included. Kids play outside, kids build forts and sleep outside. We pay attention to food sources, and kids grow up knowing some basic bear avoidance (like not keeping food in the tent/fort). Do you really think bears follow some arbitrary boundary around places humans live? I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but humans live in a lot of the landscape.


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I don’t want to disagree with whether cohabitation can be done. I think you should be able to live on Kodiak or some other island and have an epic life with bears. I watched a buddy who was nearly blackout drunk get licked by a gigantic black bear in Tahoe. For like 3 minutes. In nothing but boxer shorts. We were all about one drink behind him so we just sat on the ground laughing about 15 ft away.

But here’s the problem - OK your kid can have a campout but can’t have food in the tent. That’s completely absurd to use as a supporting point. First of all your kid IS food. Second of all just because you’re getting away with it doesn’t mean everything is fine. That’s like saying a boat that’s filling up with water is completely fine because it’s only up to your shins. If you’re walking this close to the edge every day you are in denial of a worsening situation. I guarantee when your street was named there wasn’t a grizzly for 50 miles. Back when people had common sense and weren’t mystified by whatever spell they’re under now. Every year there’s more of them but you’re basing your odds of survival on last year’s data which is one year closer to the good old days when they’d be blasted on sight.

Once again this would be completely wrong, unethical, immoral to do to say … bobcats. They’re too small yeah they’re tough but it’s impossible to say they’re really dangerous. A big grizzly is like what, 40 ? 100 ? bobcats all glued into one super predator.

But you don’t need to agree with me. I also think there should be no more than 200 alligators in the entire country. WHY NOT.

 

[Smithb9841]

I watched a buddy who was nearly blackout drunk get licked by a gigantic black bear in Tahoe. For like 3 minutes. In nothing but boxer shorts. We were all about one drink behind him so we just sat on the ground laughing about 15 ft away.

.

come on there can’t be a story like this without a picture or a video at the bottom of the post haha

 

[Idaho4x4Bronco]

Grizzlies are a formidable beast, but they are not an alien super creature. If they didn't have a legacy fear of humans, wolves would be much more dangerous - not sure if you've ever seen one, but you'd have zero chance of surviving a determined attack by a wolf pack. Same goes for a lion or even a black bear.

This made my day, thank you.
You know what would happen if a wolf pack was determined and dedicated to attack me? I wouldn't owe anything on my truck after I called up F4WM folks. They may not believe my story though.

 

[High Climber]

I’m for less Grizz in Idaho

 

[wyosam]

I don’t want to disagree with whether cohabitation can be done. I think you should be able to live on Kodiak or some other island and have an epic life with bears. I watched a buddy who was nearly blackout drunk get licked by a gigantic black bear in Tahoe. For like 3 minutes. In nothing but boxer shorts. We were all about one drink behind him so we just sat on the ground laughing about 15 ft away.

But here’s the problem - OK your kid can have a campout but can’t have food in the tent. That’s completely absurd to use as a supporting point. First of all your kid IS food. Second of all just because you’re getting away with it doesn’t mean everything is fine. That’s like saying a boat that’s filling up with water is completely fine because it’s only up to your shins. If you’re walking this close to the edge every day you are in denial of a worsening situation. I guarantee when your street was named there wasn’t a grizzly for 50 miles. Back when people had common sense and weren’t mystified by whatever spell they’re under now. Every year there’s more of them but you’re basing your odds of survival on last year’s data which is one year closer to the good old days when they’d be blasted on sight.

Once again this would be completely wrong, unethical, immoral to do to say … bobcats. They’re too small yeah they’re tough but it’s impossible to say they’re really dangerous. A big grizzly is like what, 40 ? 100 ? bobcats all glued into one super predator.

But you don’t need to agree with me. I also think there should be no more than 200 alligators in the entire country. WHY NOT.

Actually, I’ll guarantee there were plenty of grizzlies much closer than 50 miles when either of those streets were named. It’s not ME and my kid, it’s a whole shitload of people in the western US, Canada, AK. I’m going to make a wild guess that you live a long ways from anywhere wild.


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[flyfisher117]

The odds should be zero especially since we’re talking about man-made reintroduction. That said, I’m equally or more adamant than you about protecting wildlife when it’s not dangerous. We’d be in complete agreement if the species in question was an herbivore. If the last jackalopes were being wiped out I wouldn’t just say oh well they should have evolved better. I’d be actively protecting them.

Grizzlies are nearly impossible to kill without gunpowder. If left alone they will expand their range on their own. Don’t dare accelerate the process. The reduction in their numbers is why walking through the woods to grandmothers house is a sure thing - even in your places where people live “near” grizzlies there’s still WAY less than there were before we came along. That allows us the peace of mind to farm, recreate, relax, invent things, develop skills, train dogs, leave horses unattended for a bit, put a mosquito net over the baby’s hammock and leave it outside to go check on dinner in the oven. There’s literally a zillion reasons why less giant BEARS is a good thing. Do you really want your fellow American to share the man eating predator worries of rural Africans?

Reintroducing giant predators (which costs OUR tax money and makes life more difficult) is a very easily defeated argument. You think they’re awesome, I do agree. But they should be several hours driving distance from any of us. You might think tons of people live in grizzly country just fine but they actually don’t live AMONGST the bears -they’re 15 miles away on the other side of a range. It used to be 60 miles away and that’s how it should be. Once it goes down to 5 miles or once there’s grizzly poop in backyards, NOBODY is letting their kid sleep outside in a fort he built with sticks and stocked with tuna fish and bologna sandwiches. That’s when your cool idea makes people prisoners in their own houses.

Where exactly do you live? Where do you gather your fears?
While I'm still against a bear introduction in Idaho for various reasons being a "prisoner of my home" is not one..
Maybe I am just jaded after spending some of my life within a litteral stone throw from the Beartooth/Absaroka wilderness. Kids were somehow allowed to be kids. We all spent time wandering the forest and doing kid shit. While the grizzly bears, black bears, lions, wolves, moose etc were on the mind the biggest predators that kept us imprisoned was the damn turkeys that roamed the nearby town. Nobody was safe from them.

 

[Blowdowner]

Where exactly do you live? Where do you gather your fears?
While I'm still against a bear introduction in Idaho for various reasons being a "prisoner of my home" is not one..
Maybe I am just jaded after spending some of my life within a litteral stone throw from the Beartooth/Absaroka wilderness. Kids were somehow allowed to be kids. We all spent time wandering the forest and doing kid shit. While the grizzly bears, black bears, lions, wolves, moose etc were on the mind the biggest predators that kept us imprisoned was the damn turkeys that roamed the nearby town. Nobody was safe from them

Since this is a hunting forum, all of us wish Alaska was right outside our door and imaginethat would be awesome in every way. And we know that includes Grizzlies.
But that’s a fantasy. Alaska is based on extracting not growing things. So it’s easy to do Alaskan things with bears around. I’m not going to say where I’ve spent most of my time outdoors but there were no predators then but there ARE now. And it’s breaking a way of life for many people. The math for profiting from a small herd of goats or sheep is way better when you don’t need a whole pack of Pyrenees dogs or electric fences or going to jail for acting as the last line of defense for your animals. Just trust me, the places that are still natural and wild but free from predators, they’re literally heaven on earth. Just think how great it would be to have your own little herd of pack animals living just outside Yellowstone and never having to worry about predators.

 

[wyosam]

Since this is a hunting forum, all of us wish Alaska was right outside our door and imaginethat would be awesome in every way. And we know that includes Grizzlies.
But that’s a fantasy. Alaska is based on EXTRACTING not putting down roots. So it’s easy to do Alaskan things with bears around. I’m not going to say where I’ve spent most of my time outdoors but there were no predators then but there ARE now. And it’s breaking a way of life for many people. The math for profiting from a small herd of goats or sheep is way better when you don’t need a whole pack of Pyrenees dogs or electric fences or going to jail for acting as the last line of defense for your animals. Just trust me, the places that are still natural and wild but free from predators, they’re literally heaven on earth. Just think how great it would be to have your own little herd of pack animals living just outside Yellowstone and never having to worry about predators.

Are you trying to be as insulting as possible to people who choose to live in AK? Please, how about you keep your goats far away from the GYE, or anywhere else interesting. Profiting from a small herd of goats or sheep is pretty low on my list of things to care about. I suppose you’re afraid of coyotes, too? They are everywhere, and probably far more likely to mess with your barnyard animals. Since you don’t want to admit where you’re from, I assume it’s California. You’ve got an unmanaged cat problem, maybe focus on that.


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[AkRyan]

Are you trying to be as insulting as possible to people who choose to live in AK? Please, how about you keep your goats far away from the GYE, or anywhere else interesting. Profiting from a small herd of goats or sheep is pretty low on my list of things to care about. I suppose you’re afraid of coyotes, too? They are everywhere, and probably far more likely to mess with your barnyard animals. Since you don’t want to admit where you’re from, I assume it’s California. You’ve got an unmanaged cat problem, maybe focus on that.


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I'm trying to figure out where around yellow stone doesn't have preditors.

 

[Blowdowner]

Are you trying …

Sorry I’ll change it to “growing things”

 

[Taco John]

I know from a previous thread that I've got a (very) minority opinion on this topic, but why are so many against grizzly bears expanding into some of the areas in Idaho that they used to inhabit, and establishing a stable population so we can have a season on them? I think we're seeing a rather disproportional number of attacks here in Idaho because this apex predator has lost their fear of us. We've got plenty of other predators more than capable of handing us our lunch, but they don't. In over fifty years living and hunting here, I cannot recall a single lion attack (other than a pet that was let loose to get pregnant near Idaho City - a story in itself). Yet California, where as I understand, lions are protected, attacks are more and more frequent. Because we run lions and black bear with dogs and have a long season on them, they have developed a legacy fear and respect for us. In other states, not so much. More grizzlies in our state would keep the wilderness wild and add to the adventure of an outdoor experience. We need more risk opportunities in our lives in general - we're becoming soft as a society. Just my two cents on this topic.

Whats wrong with more psychotic serial killers in your yard.



It will keep you and your kids on your toes.

Keep you from getting soft.

 

[Rotnguns]

Whats wrong with more psychotic serial killers in your yard.



It will keep you and your kids on your toes.

Keep you from getting soft.

Good point - those grizzlies are akin to mass murderers. Also, let's kill all the rattlesnakes - they account for more deaths than grizzlies. Black bears while we're at it. Mountain lions? Who needs 'em - they're getting uppity. Coyotes too. Time for a general policy - kill every carnivore in the national forests and on BLM land.
Let's also install elevators and gondolas to help the more timid among us explore and enjoy the wild areas.

 

[Rotnguns]

Since this is a hunting forum, all of us wish Alaska was right outside our door and imaginethat would be awesome in every way. And we know that includes Grizzlies.
But that’s a fantasy. Alaska is based on extracting not growing things. So it’s easy to do Alaskan things with bears around. I’m not going to say where I’ve spent most of my time outdoors but there were no predators then but there ARE now. And it’s breaking a way of life for many people. The math for profiting from a small herd of goats or sheep is way better when you don’t need a whole pack of Pyrenees dogs or electric fences or going to jail for acting as the last line of defense for your animals. Just trust me, the places that are still natural and wild but free from predators, they’re literally heaven on earth. Just think how great it would be to have your own little herd of pack animals living just outside Yellowstone and never having to worry about predators.

Are you saying that we should exterminate coyotes, wolves, mountain lions, black bears, and grizzly bears so that you can experience inner peace with your small herd of goats?

 

[Rotnguns]

This made my day, thank you.
You know what would happen if a wolf pack was determined and dedicated to attack me? I wouldn't owe anything on my truck after I called up F4WM folks. They may not believe my story though.

Meant to qualify my statement to refer to people who are not carrying firearms. My bad.

 

[Rotnguns]

Speak for yourself, broski.

My bad. Meant to qualify my statement to refer to someone who is not armed.

 

[Rotnguns]

the problem is cost/risk vs reward. what is the reward? bears get to live here and we feel warm and fuzzy about it? Vs millions of dollars, legal battles, public safety, private property risk, risk to local herds/harvest rates, flooding of environmentalist agencies entering the state, political tension, etc etc. The only way i would support it is if it would guarantee less people would come to Idaho.

If people are concerned about being attacked by predators, including black bears, lions, and wolves, they should arm themselves, like all sensible people do in this state.

 

[Rotnguns]

They’re absolute beasts and it’s sad they were wiped out of many places but only a sick f&&& would bring them back. A disgusting city dwelling art snob shriveled dork environmentalist.

If any of you are smoking enough weed that you think feeling bad for their decline means we should release them in a new state from the back of a pickup truck, just catch a bunch of feral hogs or carp, go up to Canada and leave their cousins an offering.

We all came of age in an era with some of the lowest predator numbers ever. I’m a hunter because as a 7 year old I could play in the woods all day and it was basically impossible for me to encounter even a coyote or black bear. If there were mountain lions, wolves or grizzlies I’d be an indoor cat scared of the wind. Watch what you wish for.

One advantage of expanding the range and population of grizzlies in Idaho is reducing the number of wimps infesting our national forests. I've spent decades hunting, fishing, kayaking, and prospecting in areas populated with black bear, lions, wolves, and grizzlies. Like all sensible people in this state, I always carried a firearm. Are you saying that we should exterminate all hazardous creatures so you can have an angst-free camping experience? Hell, let's kill all the rattlesnakes, black bear, lions, wolves, and coyotes while we're at it. Maybe install bucket trams and escalators to avoid injuries on trails and mountains. Dam and control all the wild rivers too, can't have dangerous rapids around.