What's wrong with more grizzlies in Idaho?

[Article 4]

I hope there is a lower 48 grizz season one day.

As far as less elk year after year. Where? Elk are doing great overall. Many of the states with Grizz bears offer more than 1 tag per person.

Elk populations are decent...They have changed their rut activities in some areas and some completely silent in others.

Imagine what they would be like without the unchecked predation

 

[wyosam]

The odds should be zero especially since we’re talking about man-made reintroduction. That said, I’m equally or more adamant than you about protecting wildlife when it’s not dangerous. We’d be in complete agreement if the species in question was an herbivore. If the last jackalopes were being wiped out I wouldn’t just say oh well they should have evolved better. I’d be actively protecting them.

Grizzlies are nearly impossible to kill without gunpowder. If left alone they will expand their range on their own. Don’t dare accelerate the process. The reduction in their numbers is why walking through the woods to grandmothers house is a sure thing - even in your places where people live “near” grizzlies there’s still WAY less than there were before we came along. That allows us the peace of mind to farm, recreate, relax, invent things, develop skills, train dogs, leave horses unattended for a bit, put a mosquito net over the baby’s hammock and leave it outside to go check on dinner in the oven. There’s literally a zillion reasons why less giant BEARS is a good thing. Do you really want your fellow American to share the man eating predator worries of rural Africans?

Reintroducing giant predators (which costs OUR tax money and makes life more difficult) is a very easily defeated argument. You think they’re awesome, I do agree. But they should be several hours driving distance from any of us. You might think tons of people live in grizzly country just fine but they actually don’t live AMONGST the bears -they’re 15 miles away on the other side of a range. It used to be 60 miles away and that’s how it should be. Once it goes down to 5 miles or once there’s grizzly poop in backyards, NOBODY is letting their kid sleep outside in a fort he built with sticks and stocked with tuna fish and bologna sandwiches. That’s when your cool idea makes people prisoners in their own houses.

Prisoners in their own houses . Impossible to kill without gun powder? Again, kids play outside. People walk through the woods- lots of them, most not hunters and most not armed. Just living their lives, not being the star of a kids book. “Near”? Lots of people in grizzly habitat in the lower 48, Canada, AK. Not near, in. Many of those places grizzlies are doing very well, because we don’t manage them effectively. Even in AK where they are hunted, there are a LOT of brown bears. They are hunted, but not enough to really affect numbers because they are really expensive for non-residents, most don’t eat them, and bear rugs are expensive and not something you need very many of. There’s a den not far from my house that I walk my dogs within 75 yards of most days. I live in Anchorage.

People DO have grizzly scat in their yards. My last house in Wyoming, and my current home included. Kids play outside, kids build forts and sleep outside. We pay attention to food sources, and kids grow up knowing some basic bear avoidance (like not keeping food in the tent/fort). Do you really think bears follow some arbitrary boundary around places humans live? I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but humans live in a lot of the landscape.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TADSR]

100 PERCENT. SPOT ON

 

[Blowdowner]

Prisoners in their own houses . Impossible to kill without gun powder? Again, kids play outside. People walk through the woods- lots of them, most not hunters and most not armed. Just living their lives, not being the star of a kids book. “Near”? Lots of people in grizzly habitat in the lower 48, Canada, AK. Not near, in. Many of those places grizzlies are doing very well, because we don’t manage them effectively. Even in AK where they are hunted, there are a LOT of brown bears. They are hunted, but not enough to really affect numbers because they are really expensive for non-residents, most don’t eat them, and bear rugs are expensive and not something you need very many of. There’s a den not far from my house that I walk my dogs within 75 yards of most days. I live in Anchorage.

People DO have grizzly scat in their yards. My last house in Wyoming, and my current home included. Kids play outside, kids build forts and sleep outside. We pay attention to food sources, and kids grow up knowing some basic bear avoidance (like not keeping food in the tent/fort). Do you really think bears follow some arbitrary boundary around places humans live? I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but humans live in a lot of the landscape.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don’t want to disagree with whether cohabitation can be done. I think you should be able to live on Kodiak or some other island and have an epic life with bears. I watched a buddy who was nearly blackout drunk get licked by a gigantic black bear in Tahoe. For like 3 minutes. In nothing but boxer shorts. We were all about one drink behind him so we just sat on the ground laughing about 15 ft away.

But here’s the problem - OK your kid can have a campout but can’t have food in the tent. That’s completely absurd to use as a supporting point. First of all your kid IS food. Second of all just because you’re getting away with it doesn’t mean everything is fine. That’s like saying a boat that’s filling up with water is completely fine because it’s only up to your shins. If you’re walking this close to the edge every day you are in denial of a worsening situation. I guarantee when your street was named there wasn’t a grizzly for 50 miles. Back when people had common sense and weren’t mystified by whatever spell they’re under now. Every year there’s more of them but you’re basing your odds of survival on last year’s data which is one year closer to the good old days when they’d be blasted on sight.

Once again this would be completely wrong, unethical, immoral to do to say … bobcats. They’re too small yeah they’re tough but it’s impossible to say they’re really dangerous. A big grizzly is like what, 40 ? 100 ? bobcats all glued into one super predator.

But you don’t need to agree with me. I also think there should be no more than 200 alligators in the entire country. WHY NOT.

 

[Smithb9841]

I watched a buddy who was nearly blackout drunk get licked by a gigantic black bear in Tahoe. For like 3 minutes. In nothing but boxer shorts. We were all about one drink behind him so we just sat on the ground laughing about 15 ft away.

.

come on there can’t be a story like this without a picture or a video at the bottom of the post haha

 

[Idaho4x4Bronco]

Grizzlies are a formidable beast, but they are not an alien super creature. If they didn't have a legacy fear of humans, wolves would be much more dangerous - not sure if you've ever seen one, but you'd have zero chance of surviving a determined attack by a wolf pack. Same goes for a lion or even a black bear.

This made my day, thank you.
You know what would happen if a wolf pack was determined and dedicated to attack me? I wouldn't owe anything on my truck after I called up F4WM folks. They may not believe my story though.

 

[High Climber]

I’m for less Grizz in Idaho

 

[wyosam]

I don’t want to disagree with whether cohabitation can be done. I think you should be able to live on Kodiak or some other island and have an epic life with bears. I watched a buddy who was nearly blackout drunk get licked by a gigantic black bear in Tahoe. For like 3 minutes. In nothing but boxer shorts. We were all about one drink behind him so we just sat on the ground laughing about 15 ft away.

But here’s the problem - OK your kid can have a campout but can’t have food in the tent. That’s completely absurd to use as a supporting point. First of all your kid IS food. Second of all just because you’re getting away with it doesn’t mean everything is fine. That’s like saying a boat that’s filling up with water is completely fine because it’s only up to your shins. If you’re walking this close to the edge every day you are in denial of a worsening situation. I guarantee when your street was named there wasn’t a grizzly for 50 miles. Back when people had common sense and weren’t mystified by whatever spell they’re under now. Every year there’s more of them but you’re basing your odds of survival on last year’s data which is one year closer to the good old days when they’d be blasted on sight.

Once again this would be completely wrong, unethical, immoral to do to say … bobcats. They’re too small yeah they’re tough but it’s impossible to say they’re really dangerous. A big grizzly is like what, 40 ? 100 ? bobcats all glued into one super predator.

But you don’t need to agree with me. I also think there should be no more than 200 alligators in the entire country. WHY NOT.

Actually, I’ll guarantee there were plenty of grizzlies much closer than 50 miles when either of those streets were named. It’s not ME and my kid, it’s a whole shitload of people in the western US, Canada, AK. I’m going to make a wild guess that you live a long ways from anywhere wild.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[flyfisher117]

The odds should be zero especially since we’re talking about man-made reintroduction. That said, I’m equally or more adamant than you about protecting wildlife when it’s not dangerous. We’d be in complete agreement if the species in question was an herbivore. If the last jackalopes were being wiped out I wouldn’t just say oh well they should have evolved better. I’d be actively protecting them.

Grizzlies are nearly impossible to kill without gunpowder. If left alone they will expand their range on their own. Don’t dare accelerate the process. The reduction in their numbers is why walking through the woods to grandmothers house is a sure thing - even in your places where people live “near” grizzlies there’s still WAY less than there were before we came along. That allows us the peace of mind to farm, recreate, relax, invent things, develop skills, train dogs, leave horses unattended for a bit, put a mosquito net over the baby’s hammock and leave it outside to go check on dinner in the oven. There’s literally a zillion reasons why less giant BEARS is a good thing. Do you really want your fellow American to share the man eating predator worries of rural Africans?

Reintroducing giant predators (which costs OUR tax money and makes life more difficult) is a very easily defeated argument. You think they’re awesome, I do agree. But they should be several hours driving distance from any of us. You might think tons of people live in grizzly country just fine but they actually don’t live AMONGST the bears -they’re 15 miles away on the other side of a range. It used to be 60 miles away and that’s how it should be. Once it goes down to 5 miles or once there’s grizzly poop in backyards, NOBODY is letting their kid sleep outside in a fort he built with sticks and stocked with tuna fish and bologna sandwiches. That’s when your cool idea makes people prisoners in their own houses.

Where exactly do you live? Where do you gather your fears?
While I'm still against a bear introduction in Idaho for various reasons being a "prisoner of my home" is not one..
Maybe I am just jaded after spending some of my life within a litteral stone throw from the Beartooth/Absaroka wilderness. Kids were somehow allowed to be kids. We all spent time wandering the forest and doing kid shit. While the grizzly bears, black bears, lions, wolves, moose etc were on the mind the biggest predators that kept us imprisoned was the damn turkeys that roamed the nearby town. Nobody was safe from them.