What's wrong with more grizzlies in Idaho?

[FAAFO]

Honestly this thread just smells like frustration. Rokslide Randy wants to be able to use his .223 on a grizzly bear 13 miles in and 15,000 of elevation gain running his nightforce scope.

I will hold out hope for a lower 48 grizz hunt. I’m on team Randy!!!

 

[Rotnguns]

Why do people like to argue so much?

There's no possible way that everyone can be so inflamed about every single topic that comes up on here or on social media or whatever, tripping over yourselves and others to convey that you have the moral/intellectual high ground over some of the stupidest of concepts/topics.

Does anyones opinion in this thread actually mean anything more than anyone else's? Is anyone expecting to change policy today? Is anyone in charge of writing or voting into law anything that will actually do one single thing today?

Probably not, right? So let's just have a discussion. Leave your self-righteousness on facebook or twitter or whatever else and just have a talk here, exchange ideas, be open to concepts outside of your own bubble and toss out what you don't like, quietly.

The world sucks enough without having to be dickheads to each other over something none of us is going to change not one iota.

A good comment. Since starting this thread, I've found most of the comments to be on topic and informative. When it comes to these internet forums, you get out what you put in. Those that resort to petty insults and name calling gain no insight or perspective from the discussion. That's their prerogative - I just ignore them.

 

[Idaho Brad]

What’s the net gain of having more Grizzly’s in Idaho?


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[Wyo_hntr]

What’s the net gain of having more Grizzly’s in Idaho?


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Feel goods and mauled people.

Edit: perhaps the all knowing @FAAFO can explain to us simple folks what is gained by the people of Idaho with more Grizzlies on the landscape, besides more feel goods and maulings. Tell us why "rokslide randy" shouldn't want as many grizzlies as possible....

 

[Buglebrush]

The premise behind this thread is, to put it kindly,
idiotic. There's not one good thing possible about more Grizzlies in the lower 48, and never will be. There's a LOT of bad things about more Grizzlies and there'll be even more bad things to come.

 

[BigAl!]

It’s all about DEI on the landscape.

 

[FAAFO]

I have zero desire to have any type of discussion with you because you are going to be condescending, snarky, and pretty much just an asshole.

Oh yeah? Well what’s this:

Feel goods and mauled people.

Edit: perhaps the all knowing @FAAFO can explain to us simple folks what is gained by the people of Idaho with more Grizzlies on the landscape, besides more feel goods and maulings. Tell us why "rokslide randy" shouldn't want as many grizzlies as possible....

I’m not going to engage in a conversation with someone who can’t keep their word. And who kills dink mule deer bucks when the population is already hurting. There’s no conservation in you, thus no need to have a discussion with you

 

[Wyo_hntr]

Oh yeah? Well what’s this:



I’m not going to engage in a conversation with someone who can’t keep their word. And who kills dink mule deer bucks when the population is already hurting. There’s no conservation in you, thus no need to have a discussion with you

I apologize, you just seemed to think my post was hilarious, I was hoping you would expound on why it was so hilarious. I guess not.

Please accept my deepest apologies.

 

[N8H]

I've felt the same as the OP; that grizzlies expanding doesn't seem like a big deal. I think the increase will eventually lead to a regular season with extremely limited take. Yes, I know there's a lot of opposition to that opinion, including from people in these forums.
I'm actually feeling a little hopeful about the delisting situations as well, given the new mandatory bear ID course for all black bear hunters (a tag i decided to pick up for the first time this year). I think as inconvenient as it is, having every bear hunter in the state of idaho prove that they can distinguish between a grizzly or black bear will take a little wind out of the sails of those who fight to keep the bears on the list. There will be a lot less talk about incidental takes when we have a "well educated public", but I'll wait until I see what this bear ID course is like.

Hopeful, but with minimal expectations.

 

[Hoosker Doo]

Ummmm they do have the ability to defend themselves. Can you show one case of someone getting fined for self defense? Or prison time?

I personally know multiple people who have been investigated and/or in court due to defending themselves in a grizzly charge. The attitude by the officials in charge (I don't remember if it was WY G&F or feds) AS COMMUNICATED TO ME BY THOSE BEING IVESTIGATED was definitely guilty until proven innocent. My coworker happened to be one who was inside Grand Teton National Park when they shot a charging bear said his phone line was tapped, and they would ask him about specific conversations from the day before. The lucky one was the guy who had the bear run away and was never found, but there were plenty of searches and hopes of "nailing this guy". Another case that went to court never reached a verdict and there was never a "not guilty" conclusion. Instead they will just wait until the statute of limitations runs out and in the meantime let it hang over the accused's head just in case other wildlife crimes happen to confirm you poached a grizzly bear.

If you enjoy being in the woods with family (kids), there's no comparison in the quality between grizz territory and non-grizz territory. If you have the appropriate respect for grizzly, and aren't somewhere on this interesting John Rambo/Timothy Treadwelll outdoorsman spectrum we're seeing when it comes to embracing grizzlies in the woods, you WILL change the way you spend time outdoors.

What my outdoor experience is like living in no grizzly WY:
• Bow/rifle hunting/camping solo most of the time
• Never carry a sidearm
• Young kids hunt and hike with me regularly
•My wife takes the kids out hiking and fishing solo a lot
• kids go explore up the creek bottom on their own
• kids play night games around camp

What it looked like when living in dense grizzly populated Wyoming (more grizzly sign than elk sign)
• no solo bow hunting
• solo rifle hunting only where I have service or within a mile or so of the roadway
• always armed (pistol only if packing 12 guage is not an option)
• adventuring on fourwheelers much more than on foot
• if wife and kids are going out, I am there, loaded for bear
• wife doesn't go out alone (her choice)
• kids never leave my proximity
• hard side camper only restriction imposed by forest service = we do mostly day trips and don't camp as much (I don't havea camper and prefer tent camping)

Life is different in dense bear territory. At this stage, no grizzlies means me and my family have a lot more fun.

EDITED to indicate this is hearsay from involved parties that I know personally.

 

[FAAFO]

I personally know multiple people who have been investigated and/or in court due to defending themselves in a grizzly charge. The attitude by the officials in charge (I don't remembering it was WY G&F or feds) was definitely guilty until proven innocent, and they definitely tried to create the narrative that it was illegal hunting (with a .40 S&W inside of 20 yards). The lucky one was the guy who had the bear run away and was never found, but there were plenty of searches and hopes of "nailing this guy". The case
that went to court never reached a verdict and there was never a "not guilty" conclusion. Instead they will just wait until the statute of limitations runs out and in the meantime let it hang over the accused's head just in case other wildlife crimes happen to confirm you poached a grizzly bear.

If you enjoy being in the woods with family (kids), there's no comparison in the quality between grizz territory and non-grizz territory. If you have the appropriate respect for grizzly, and aren't somewhere on this interesting John Rambo/Timothy Treadwelll outdoorsman spectrum we're seeing when it comes to embracing grizzlies in the woods, you WILL change the way you spend time outdoors.

What my outdoor experience is like living in no grizzly WY:
• Bow/rifle hunting/camping solo most of the time
• Never carry a sidearm
• Young kids hunt and hike with me regularly
•My wife takes the kids out hiking and fishing solo a lot
• kids go explore up the creek bottom on their own
• kids play night games around camp

What it looked like when living in dense grizzly populated Wyoming (more grizzly sign than elk sign)
• no solo bow hunting
• solo rifle hunting only where I have service or within a mile or so of the roadway
• always armed (pistol only if packing 12 guage is not an option)
• adventuring on fourwheelers much more than on foot
• if wife and kids are going out, I am there, loaded for bear
• wife doesn't go out alone (her choice)
• kids never leave my proximity
• hard side camper only restriction imposed = we do mostly day trips and don't camp as much

Life is different in dense bear territory. At this stage, no grizzlies means me and my family have a lot more fun.

^^. This is why we need more grizzly bears.


Please PM your friends name(s) so I can look up these court cases. It’s especially odd the state or “feds” took a case to court and NO verdict? Hmmmmmm. I won’t throw the BS flag yet.

That’s a real bummer you’re afraid of grizzly bears. And you let it stop you from hunting such beautiful country. We are all afraid of something. Instead of hiding in your camper I recommend you get out there and explore, you have a better chance of getting killed by a dog.

Oh shit wolves are dogs. RUN!!!!

 

[Jason Snyder]

The case
that went to court never reached a verdict and there was never a "not guilty" conclusion. Instead they will just wait until the statute of limitations runs out and in the meantime let it hang over the accused's head just in case other wildlife crimes happen to confirm you poached a grizzly bear.

Link to any media reference?

 

[ndbuck09]

No, I'm not "screwing with you" and I'm not naive. Grizzlies are a formidable beast, but they are not an alien super creature. If they didn't have a legacy fear of humans, wolves would be much more dangerous - not sure if you've ever seen one, but you'd have zero chance of surviving a determined attack by a wolf pack. Same goes for a lion or even a black bear. Yes, the politics would have to change for my idea to work. But that's been done before. Would you agree that extending your line of reasoning to Alaska would result in Grizzlies being hunted to near extinction there?

The politics of wildlife aren't going to change. Period. When it comes to wildlife in this country, people are more disconnected from it every year. And if it was ever something that the feds said, ok now you can hunt them. It'll be a republican administration and the minute a dem gets in they'll change it back to protected. It's a pipedream. that's all it is to give a shred of thought that getting grizz in here in great numbers is a good thing.

 

[Hoosker Doo]

^^. This is why we need more grizzly bears.


Please PM your friends name(s) so I can look up these court cases. It’s especially odd the state or “feds” took a case to court and NO verdict? Hmmmmmm. I won’t throw the BS flag yet.

That’s a real bummer you’re afraid of grizzly bears. And you let it stop you from hunting such beautiful country. We are all afraid of something. Instead of hiding in your camper I recommend you get out there and explore, you have a better chance of getting killed by a dog.

Oh shit wolves are dogs. RUN!!!!

Haha funny stuff. I specifically referenced hunting solo. I still filled plenty of tags, and now I happen to have some people I can hunt with. If you want to come with so I'm not solo, I'd share my tipi tent. Let's go back in there as far as you want. By myself, I don't take unnecessary risks.

Let me see what I can find about the official case, but the kid was one of my college friends and he showed me pictures of the dead bear and the cub left parentless.

 

[FAAFO]

Haha funny stuff. I specifically referenced hunting solo. I still filled plenty of tags, and now I happen to have some people I can hunt with. If you want to come with so I'm not solo, I'd share my tipi tent. Let's go back in there as far as you want. By myself, I don't are unnecessary risks.

Let me see what I can find about the official case, but the kid was one of my college friends and he showed me pictures of the dead bear and the cub left parentless.

In all seriousness it’s good to see people taking precautions in situations they are not comfortable in. Wish more people were like you m!

 

[Jason Snyder]

The case
that went to court never reached a verdict and there was never a "not guilty" conclusion. Instead they will just wait until the statute of limitations runs out and in the meantime let it hang over the accused's head just in case other wildlife crimes happen to confirm you poached a grizzly bear.

So it was a hung jury?

 

[Hoosker Doo]

Please PM your friends name(s) so I can look up these court cases. It’s especially odd the state or “feds” took a case to court and NO verdict? Hmmmmmm. I won’t throw the BS flag yet.

Link to any media reference?

So it was a hung jury?

I was around when it happened, so ALL the info I had was first hand from the individuals involved (including the court verdict). So my info may be very biased.

I could only find this one media reference to the incident online, so I may need to educate myself on searching incident reports and court documents.

Shed Antler Collector with .40 Against Sow Grizzly (FOIA)

Another real life defense of self, with a pistol, from a grizzly bear attack gleaned from the Freedom of Information Act request by AmmoLand, in Wyoming, 2016.

www.ammoland.com

 

[Idaho Brad]

Still no answer for “ What is the net benefit of having grizzly bears in Idaho”?


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[Jason Snyder]

Still no answer for “ What is the net benefit of having grizzly bears in Idaho”?


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Probably the same answer as to the benefit of having the opportunity at 350” bulls, or elk in non traditional units. Some people like it.

 

[Jason Snyder]

I was around when it happened, so ALL the info I had was first hand from the individuals involved (including the court verdict). So my info may be very biased.

So is that a yes it was a hung jury? Did the prosecutor attempt to refile?