What's wrong with 270 WSM?

[TaperPin]

Nothing new?
133/135 berger
134 eld-m'
138 a tip
131 match king.....
Yes I understand they are still jacketed lead core bullets but the entire profile and in some cases, tip design are in fact new.
Compare the bc of that 120 grain to the 138 a tip and tell me there is no difference.

And again, this whole argument is tired and beat to death and I don't care what other people choose to shoot, but why make statements that lack any basis?

The ironic thing about 130gr bullets, is us old guys have grown up seeing fragile and tough 270 win 130 gr bullets hit everything that walks from every angle. Nothing new about that.

 

[WKR]

You’re arguing aerodynamics and that has nothing to do with what happens when it impacts the animal, only stretching out the distance of the impact. Two different topics altogether. I think aerodynamic bullets are awesome, but that doesn’t automatically make the designs better at killing things.

I find it entertaining that both topics get jumbled together - as if only aerodynamic bullets should be used at every distance.

Are you saying nose and bullet length and tip design has no effect on terminal performance then?
Longer heavier high bc bullets also have more length and mass than their predecessors. As I'm sure you already know. So wouldn't that equate to more terminal performance all thing equal?
I don't think you can say the only thing gained is aerodynamics in this case

 

[MT-nuffgun]

130gr 6.5 tmk vs. .277 130gr interlock. Two totally different bullets. Do both kill? Yup. But the question is which one does it better. I’ve killed with both and my money falls on the 130 tmk.

 

[TaperPin]

Are you saying nose and bullet length and tip design has no effect on terminal performance then?
Longer heavier high bc bullets also have more length and mass than their predecessors. As I'm sure you already know. So wouldn't that equate to more terminal performance all thing equal?
I don't think you can say the only thing gained is aerodynamics in this case

If the bullet of a certain weight is quickly falling to pieces it doesn’t really matter what diameter it started out as. As it hits the hide, 130 gr 270 bullet and 130 gr 6mm traveling at the same speed are making 130 gr of shrapnel going the same speed. If it were a limited expansion bullet, the higher sectional density would penetrate more, but with fragmenting bullets it doesn’t have any impact on what the shrapnel does.

No matter what heavy for caliber bullet is looked at, just a caliber higher the same weight and construction will have a long history already developed. Hornady would like you to think the tip is very important and they speak about it in very colorful ways, even making tips out of different materials to seem extra cool, but it’s fluff. Aerodynamics yes, performance in the animal no. They purposely try to confuse the two by saying “The extra aerodynamics makes the bullet more lethal farther out.” Grammatically correct, but aerodynamics only gives you more distance.

 

[MT-nuffgun]

If the bullet of a certain weight is quickly falling to pieces it doesn’t really matter what diameter it started out as. As it hits the hide, 130 gr 270 bullet and 130 gr 6mm traveling at the same speed are making 130 gr of shrapnel going the same speed. If it were a limited expansion bullet, the higher sectional density would penetrate more, but with fragmenting bullets it doesn’t have any impact on what the shrapnel does.

If a bullet fragments off the nose as it penetrates tissue, wouldn’t the longer bullet be able to fragment more for a longer depth as it penetrates?for a mental picture, The idea of fragmenting bullets penetrating through tissue, to me, is similar to a pencil going through a sharpener.

 

[WKR]

If the bullet of a certain weight is quickly falling to pieces it doesn’t really matter what diameter it started out as. As it hits the hide, 130 gr 270 bullet and 130 gr 6mm traveling at the same speed are making 130 gr of shrapnel going the same speed. If it were a limited expansion bullet, the higher sectional density would penetrate more, but with fragmenting bullets it doesn’t have any impact on what the shrapnel does.

No matter what heavy for caliber bullet is looked at, just a caliber higher the same weight and construction will have a long history already developed. Hornady would like you to think the tip is very important and they speak about it in very colorful ways, even making tips out of different materials to seem extra cool, but it’s fluff. Aerodynamics yes, performance in the animal no. They purposely try to confuse the two by saying “The extra aerodynamics makes the bullet more lethal farther out.” Grammatically correct, but aerodynamics only gives you more distance.

Your original post mentioned the 120 grain 25 cal projectile and how there is nothing new or improved comparatively. My position is that isn't correct when you look at the newer 25 caliber offerings.

Now You are now comparing 130gr 6mm to a 130gr 270 which is a completely different argument.

But like I said this whole exercise in cartridge or bullet debate is tiresome to me. Shoot what you want, believe what you want, go out and hunt/kill what you want. I only engaged because to me you made a misleading statement about improvements in bullet design having no impact on terminal performance. Maybe I misunderstood you.

 

[MT-nuffgun]

I would say a long fragmenting bullet creates a more desirable wound channel than a short fragmenting bullet.

 

[rifletuner]

In Victoria, Australia 270 is the minimum legal calibre for sambar which is what I hunt the most. I decided to give a 270WSM a try and ordered a new barrel at the end of last year, but went with a 1/7" twist so I could use some of the heavy for calibre bullets that have started to hit the market. So far I have only worked up a load with the Berger EOL 170gn bullet. I have not gotten out hunting much this year - so far carried it on one hunt but never actually shot anything with it as yet.

 

[TaperPin]

If a bullet fragments off the nose as it penetrates tissue, wouldn’t the longer bullet be able to fragment more for a longer period as it penetrates?

Fragmentation happens right away - looking at ballistics gel tests, the bullet is apart within the first few inches.

The Accubond clearly doesn’t do as much damage in the first foot, and simply spreads it out over a longer distance, which some of us like.

 

[TaperPin]

Your original post mentioned the 120 grain 25 cal projectile and how there is nothing new or improved comparatively. My position is that isn't correct when you look at the newer 25 caliber offerings.

Now You are now comparing 130gr 6mm to a 130gr 270 which is a completely different argument.

But like I said this whole exercise in cartridge or bullet debate is tiresome to me. Shoot what you want, believe what you want, go out and hunt/kill what you want. I only engaged because to me you made a misleading statement about improvements in bullet design having no impact on terminal performance. Maybe I misunderstood you.

Use any weight bullets you want - most fragmenting bullets fall apart and do all their damage in the first foot, with little difference in depth of penetration between calibers.

There’s some great new bullets with improved aerodynamics, but once it hits fur, it’s just like any other bullet of similar design, same weight and same speed. The physics that are killing the animal aren’t new.

 

[nooch]

love it, its a great round

 

[TaperPin]

130gr 6.5 tmk vs. .277 130gr interlock. Two totally different bullets. Do both kill? Yup. But the question is which one does it better. I’ve killed with both and my money falls on the 130 tmk.

Interlock is considered a harder bullet - I’d bet lunch a 130 gr. 277” Sierra bullet isn’t noticeably different from the 6.5 130 gr.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Fragmentation happens right away - looking at ballistics gel tests, the bullet is apart within the first few inches.

The Accubond clearly doesn’t do as much damage in the first foot, and simply spreads it out over a longer distance, which some of us like.
View attachment 807350View attachment 807351View attachment 807352View attachment 807353

My goal is for the wound channel to coincide with the vitals and the best chance at no more meat loss than necessary. Frangible bullets don't fill that bill on the meat part for sure, lots of pics to show it. If that means a modest yet effective would channel for a longer distance vs a one hit wonder that is in bits shortly after entry on a harder angle shot, then I'm playing for the bullet that gives me the most chance for coinciding with the vitals on any shot, not just some shots.

TaperPin, myself and others do get a kick out of the full circle frangible bullets that are best on broadside shots that also ruin meat have taken. They don't kill any better than cup and core bullets of 50 years ago that guys went away from because shots in the field aren't perfect, and we've seen the mess they make and have been let down by performance on less than perfect shot angles.

 

[DisplacedHusky]

If the bullet of a certain weight is quickly falling to pieces it doesn’t really matter what diameter it started out as. As it hits the hide, 130 gr 270 bullet and 130 gr 6mm traveling at the same speed are making 130 gr of shrapnel going the same speed. If it were a limited expansion bullet, the higher sectional density would penetrate more, but with fragmenting bullets it doesn’t have any impact on what the shrapnel does.

No matter what heavy for caliber bullet is looked at, just a caliber higher the same weight and construction will have a long history already developed. Hornady would like you to think the tip is very important and they speak about it in very colorful ways, even making tips out of different materials to seem extra cool, but it’s fluff. Aerodynamics yes, performance in the animal no. They purposely try to confuse the two by saying “The extra aerodynamics makes the bullet more lethal farther out.” Grammatically correct, but aerodynamics only gives you more distance.

Not trying to be petty, but bullets fragment, and produce fragmentation, not shrapnel. Shrapnel was added to old artillery shells to target infantry. It’s just a pet peeve of mine that the terms are sometimes used interchangeably.

Shrapnel shell - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[SwiftShot]

TLDR version - why doesn't this caliber get more love on Rokslide?

Full Version - I started my quest earlier this year to find my perfect western hunting rifle, and in that search I determined that I wanted a caliber packing more punch than the 6.5's, but with a recoil lighter than a 300 Win Mag. Obviously, that's a broad range that includes some timeless classics like 270 Winchester, 308, 30-06, and 7mm Rem Mag as well as a few modern hits like 280 AI, 6.8 Western, and 7 PRC. After pouring over ballistics charts, YouTube commentaries, forum discussions, and ammo prices, I decided the 270 WSM is exactly where I want to be in that range, but I'm curious why there aren't more people coming to the same conclusion.

To be clear, I'm not asking why the cartridge hasn't gained more market share overall, because the nuance of marketing and timing and which manufacturers are chambering doesn't interest me as much as asking why YOU, fellow Roksliders, have decided to pass this one up and in favor of others.

The 270 WSM suffers from meh. The 270 win is awesome and the WSM just doesn't add much. Oh it is a shorter case, well that is meh. The win has ammo everywhere so why bother just for a shorter bolt throw. Now the 6.8 Western, well that does bring something new. Heavier for caliber bullets. So the WSM suffers because the Win is just too good.

 

[mtnbound]

TLDR version - why doesn't this caliber get more love on Rokslide?

Full Version - I started my quest earlier this year to find my perfect western hunting rifle, and in that search I determined that I wanted a caliber packing more punch than the 6.5's, but with a recoil lighter than a 300 Win Mag. Obviously, that's a broad range that includes some timeless classics like 270 Winchester, 308, 30-06, and 7mm Rem Mag as well as a few modern hits like 280 AI, 6.8 Western, and 7 PRC. After pouring over ballistics charts, YouTube commentaries, forum discussions, and ammo prices, I decided the 270 WSM is exactly where I want to be in that range, but I'm curious why there aren't more people coming to the same conclusion.

To be clear, I'm not asking why the cartridge hasn't gained more market share overall, because the nuance of marketing and timing and which manufacturers are chambering doesn't interest me as much as asking why YOU, fellow Roksliders, have decided to pass this one up and in favor of others.

I really liked the one I had, but I didn't reload at the time, and ammo availability was limited in my area, so I sold it. The 6.8 Western keeps intriguing me, but I don't need another caliber to reload for.