What do you consider a "chip shot"

[northernalpine]

Posting groups from range sessions is very different from shooting across a canyon at an animal from a spot that is most likely not level or free of rocks…

My range sessions aren’t like yours, but I know what you’re saying

 

[northernalpine]

Got it. I hunt with a RRS TFCT-34L with an Anvil head (like 5.5 pounds) plus another 9oz for the PT-Scout head for glassing. So stability-wise I think it's way different for me as that's RRS' most stable tripod I believe. But I'm also not hunting as hardcore as you probably.

I’m definitely not that hardcore but I do train with what I have. It might be worth buying a heavier one to work on technique.

 

[hereinaz]

My range sessions aren’t like yours, but I know what you’re saying

My favorite range sessions look more like a backpack trip than a trip to gun range with my wheeled boxes of gear and a bunch of guns.

 

[HuntHarder]

400ish and under.

 

[Moosehunter]

Like many have said. "Chip" shot is hard to define
I shoot quite a lot even out to extended ranges.
But in field conditions....where I'd put money on a first round hit. Maybe 200-250

 

[PredatorSlayer]

That’s the $64,000 question… what’s a chip shot mean?

80%, I’d say that’s pretty good when the second shot killed the deer. I have seen hunters throwing lead at closer ranges and miss at higher percentages.

I figure, a chip shot is a golf and it’s not a “gimme” so I am going with high a confidence shot. In field conditions I can make much higher than 80%. And, my one “failure” was at 575ish on a coues and I think it was my failure to manage recoil of my 7mm so I evaluated honestly and adjusted to a .25 cal.

Statistically speaking, 4 out of 5 is not really valid to say I am 80%, sometimes crap happens, maybe it was the one that will fall outside of the bell curve. Maybe I shoot 5 more and then I am at 90%.

• Chip shot (idiom), a phrase denoting that an attempted action has a low degree of difficulty

Was it because you shot at a bedded deer? I love it when sponsors throw videos up of them making dumb decisions.

 

[KenLee]

This is exactly the response I bring up when the topic of ethics of long range hunting comes up and/or weapon restrictions.

I’ll bet more animals are wounded when people are shooting offhand and/or at moving animals compared to “long range”. I’d take a person who practices shooting at distance over the avg hunter shooting offhand at a moving animal at 100+ yards.

To the original post, there is no such thing as 100% but under good conditions (wind, shooting position) I feel really good at 600. The only time I shoot less than 600 is during initial load dev.

At 200 yards, I'd rather the animal be trotting than standing still if I need to shoot offhand.
15 years ago, I shot still targets/animals offhand almost as well as from a solid rest. Inheriting "essential tremors" at age 40 changed that for me. Crazy thing is that I still roll the runners up.

 

[hereinaz]

Was it because you shot at a bedded deer? I love it when sponsors throw videos up of them making dumb decisions.

why do you think it was a dumb decision?

 

[FYG]

I'm very confident at 400+ yards, but I don't feel that it's a gimmee either. Gimmee range for me is 300 and in, regardless of conditions. I know I can maintain under 3 minutes with wind, angle, position etc., and put the bullet in the boiler room first shot, every shot.

I find it interesting that we as hunters will in one sentence comment on the perceived over confidence others have of what their chip shot range is, and in another thread talk about killing animals at double, triple, and even quadruple+ their range- likely several hundred yards past what that same shooter would consider a "chip shot" range. So the question becomes, when you take experience and conditions into account, what degree of certainty do you have to have as a shooter that you are going to make a lethal hit on the first shot before you squeeze the trigger?

 

[Grundy53]

I don't think anything is a chip shot for me. Then again, I could mess up the perverbial wet dream.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[FYG]

@Formidilosus, you see a lot of shooters across a broad spectrum of skill, experience, equipment etc. "Chip shot" isn't clearly defined enough us all to agree what that looks like in hit rates, so I'm going to go with your metric of first round hits in the chest cavity, and to better define it, on a deer sized animal, on every shot, or nearly so (call it 99%). What range would the median shooter achieve this at in your experience for, regardless of differences in environment, cartridge, etc. from a prone, supported position with all the time in the world? Plenty of assumptions in the question regarding the many variables, so I apologize up front. Just curious what ballpark this shooter would be in.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus, you see a lot of shooters across a broad spectrum of skill, experience, equipment etc. "Chip shot" isn't clearly defined enough us all to agree what that looks like in hit rates, so I'm going to go with your metric of first round hits in the chest cavity, and to better define it, on a deer sized animal, on every shot, or nearly so (call it 99%). What range would the median shooter achieve this at in your experience for, regardless of differences in environment, cartridge, etc. from a prone, supported position with all the time in the world? Plenty of assumptions in the question regarding the many variables, so I apologize up front. Just curious what ballpark this shooter would be in.

50’ish yards, maybe a touch more- but less than 100y. People do not realize what 99% functionally means

To put this in perspective, my range for 99% would be between 300 and 350 yards in easy winds.

 

[TaperPin]

This afternoon as I was ordering a new rangefinder I couldn’t shake the image of a lone antelope out in the sage doing what antelope do and nibbling a little here and a little there . . . he’s day dreaming about how fun the rut was and the feel of the rump hair on that gal that hangs out next to the blacktop road - then BLAMO!

Then I thought about this question again. With an exact yardage, accurate rifle, scope clear enough to see the antelope’s big eye lashes, good rest over a pack, or a bipod with or without a rear bag, all that’s left to make the 500 yard shot is the ability to shoot at the 2 moa level.

I think a lot of you are selling yourselves short - a couple of afternoons out in the sage prairie with a handful of paper plates and I’d bet everyone in here could get comfortable connecting at 500 every time.

What I’ve seen over the years are guys who struggle with heavy crappy factory triggers more than anything else (when we’re shooting over a good rest).

Shooting prone without a bipod, or sitting shots does require some practice, but that’s different.

 

[Felix40]

This afternoon as I was ordering a new rangefinder I couldn’t shake the image of a lone antelope out in the sage doing what antelope do and nibbling a little here and a little there . . . he’s day dreaming about how fun the rut was and the feel of the rump hair on that gal that hangs out next to the blacktop road - then BLAMO!

Then I thought about this question again. With an exact yardage, accurate rifle, scope clear enough to see the antelope’s big eye lashes, good rest over a pack, or a bipod with or without a rear bag, all that’s left to make the 500 yard shot is the ability to shoot at the 2 moa level.

I think a lot of you are selling yourselves short - a couple of afternoons out in the sage prairie with a handful of paper plates and I’d bet everyone in here could get comfortable connecting at 500 every time.

What I’ve seen over the years are guys who struggle with heavy crappy factory triggers more than anything else (when we’re shooting over a good rest).

Shooting prone without a bipod, or sitting shots does require some practice, but that’s different.

2 MOA in hunting conditions is easier said than done. There’s no way I would hit 99 out of 100 at random yardages in the 4-500 range.

 

[hereinaz]

I'm very confident at 400+ yards, but I don't feel that it's a gimmee either. Gimmee range for me is 300 and in, regardless of conditions. I know I can maintain under 3 minutes with wind, angle, position etc., and put the bullet in the boiler room first shot, every shot.

I find it interesting that we as hunters will in one sentence comment on the perceived over confidence others have of what their chip shot range is, and in another thread talk about killing animals at double, triple, and even quadruple+ their range- likely several hundred yards past what that same shooter would consider a "chip shot" range. So the question becomes, when you take experience and conditions into account, what degree of certainty do you have to have as a shooter that you are going to make a lethal hit on the first shot before you squeeze the trigger?

You identify a problem, let’s get a common definition and talk the same language. I think the degree of certainty is probably the best way to define it.

@Formidilosus I can agree your 50 yards based on the definition and explanation. There are numerous ways to screw up a hunting shot.

My definition was constructed differently because it was in the long range forum I didn’t answer with something less than a “long range” distance.

What are the standards?
What are the criteria?
What are the conditions?

Without that we are talking right past each other.

When it comes to long range shots, I still maintain that inside 500 is low difficulty level for me given time and calm wind conditions.

There is no such thing as a chip shot if wind is too variable/fast because it is always highly difficult even at 400 yards. That’s why I think everyone qualified their long range chip shot with that.

 

[Macintosh]

50’ish yards, maybe a touch more- but less than 100y. People do not realize what 99% functionally means

To put this in perspective, my range for 99% would be between 300 and 350 yards in easy winds.

Can you clarify? I think you are saying that from a prone position, fully supported, with all the time you want and +\- no wind, on a 10” target, you think if you do this 100 days in a row you’re pretty sure you’ll miss on at least one of those days? And that most shooters miss at least 1/100 at 75 yards?

Certainty is a lot, I get that. But I guess Im pretty confident I can hit a 10” plate at 300 yards 100/100 in cupcake conditions. Im betting you can too. And Im 100% that barring a sharknado or purple unicorns falling from the the sky and cliuding my vision, Im 100% well past 100 yards with those criteria. Are we talking about different targets?

 

[hereinaz]

2 MOA in hunting conditions is easier said than done. There’s no way I would hit 99 out of 100 at random yardages in the 4-500 range.

No one is perfect, or 99% perfect that’s for sure. Has me curious to answer that question for myself in a meaningful way, without self deception or ego:

What is a statistically valid percentage of my cold bore hits at 400-500 in field positions?

I am confident, but what is my actual number.

 

[hereinaz]

what are some practice/technique methods that got you there?

Overall, I thought this was the most interesting part of the post that didn’t get much discussion.

Like the internet does, we got tangled up in the weeds about the meaning of “chip shot” rather than the meat of getting better at long range shooting and how others got there.

Anyone have anything to add about their practices that gave them confidence?

 

[Formidilosus]

Can you clarify? I think you are saying that from a prone position, fully supported, with all the time you want and +\- no wind, on a 10” target, you think if you do this 100 days in a row you’re pretty sure you’ll miss on at least one of those days? And that most shooters miss at least 1/100 at 75 yards?

On animals? Yes. Without question.

How many hunters have missed a deer shooting from a sandbag in a box blind with a deer feeding on corn at sub 100 yards? Nearly everyone that has shot more than a handful of deer has.

Certainty is a lot, I get that. But I guess Im pretty confident I can hit a 10” plate at 300 yards 100/100 in cupcake conditions.

Have you ever tried walking out and shooting prone at 300 yards, on a 10” plate, 100 days in a row, with every single day being in a different location/range, with no practice shots between days? If not, I would say you are vastly over estimating your percentage. I don’t mean that rudely.

Beyond that, 100 shots at animal at 300 yards? I’ve done that. I missed more than once. Have you? Again, if you haven’t, I would suggest it won’t go as you think it will.

Im betting you can too. And Im 100% that barring a sharknado or purple unicorns falling from the the sky and cliuding my vision, Im 100% well past 100 yards with those criteria. Are we talking about different targets?

I wasn’t asked about a specific person, I was asked about median shooters. Let me put it this way, if you lined up 100 average shooters, had them show up to a ranch/farm 100 days in a row, I would bet $1,000 per shooter, that they each will miss the lungs more than 1 time in 100 shots on animals at 100 yards. You could make it $10,000 per shooter and it wouldn’t matter.

Just driving to and from the hunt each day would cause zero shifts in the vast majority of scopes. Let alone flinching, rifles, stress from work, an angry spouse, etc. 99% is an extremely high confidence level, and most have no clue what that actually means in the field because they’ve never taken a hundred shots at animals, let alone killed 100 animals.

For clarity, I am at either 5 or 6 missed shots on animals from 10 yards to 1,106 yards in the last 250 or so. 3 of those missed shots were follow up shots on moving animals after the first hit. In those 250 animals for me, I have seen a lot of misses by others- a lot.


Much like the cold bore challenge, with multiple people that argued that I was wrong about hit rates and that they are “on demand” from 600, 700, 800, whatever- that then missed one or both of their sub 600 yard cold bore shots.

 

[TaperPin]

2 MOA in hunting conditions is easier said than done. There’s no way I would hit 99 out of 100 at random yardages in the 4-500 range.

You are right - some hunting conditions are more challenging than others, especially if the shot has to happen quickly or the only rest is less than ideal.