What caused the Rokslide shift to smallest caliber and cartridges?

[willfrye027]

I find it hard to believe that the decline in quality mule deer bucks is due to LR hunting. IMO it's due to elk population expansion/habitat loss, lack of predator control, and extended drought conditions.

In the gunnison basin the main change between now and the heyday 2000s is lots of tags and late season dates. Rutting bucks in the sage with roads everywhere and quite a few tags is the issue here. The populations are doing great, there’s just not a whole lot of big deer.

Your statement I believe is more applicable to the west in general but in the basin deer numbers are good

 

[Don Fischer]

I strongly suspect that if 4 point and better bucks had much higher price tags and areas to hunt it would help a great deal. I also think Long Range Hunting is a problem. I doubt most people willing to shoot long range could qualify to do so before going hunting. Some how doubt even the ones bragging about it so much could qualify either. And I'd pretty much bet that if an animal get away they really don't know if it was wounded or simply missed. And how many dead animals are left to rot because where the deer was standing at 600+ yds looks a lot different when you get out there. I have a 300yd limit on shooting game animals and have only ever took it one time and then just to say I did it; sorry reason! Majority of deer I kill are well under 250 yds. I only shoot deer to fill the freezer.

 

[IDVortex]

I'm curious on the percentage of long range hunting vs the redneck who sees a deer and just starts blasting. I also have a hard time believing this with statistics showing a huge majority of kills is under 200yrds.

 

[wind gypsy]

Probably most of us don't really know because we haven't had the time or ability or training to examine the data personally. Heck, I don't know. But I do know that Brandon Diamond identified it as an issue. That plus his somewhat begrudging or reluctant behavior suggests even more strongly that he believes it is a material contributor. Again, I don't know. To me, it does seem sensible that the advent of tools enabling long range killing (or wounding) would contribute to more pressure on the biggest bucks. But, for the third time, I really don't know. But maybe the Regional Biologist does...

In the gunnison basin the main change between now and the heyday 2000s is lots of tags and late season dates. Rutting bucks in the sage with roads everywhere and quite a few tags is the issue here. The populations are doing great, there’s just not a whole lot of big deer.

Your statement I believe is more applicable to the west in general but in the basin deer numbers are good

What Brandon had to say on the Rokcast made a lot of sense to me. When a special buck exists, someone knows about it, names it, has it on a hitlist usually prior to it even reaching it's full peak potential. Technology, info, and weapon systems all contribute to that buck being found and killed more than was likely in prior generations. Probably a little different in areas where there is tons of timber and difficult access but in places where they are very visible and accessible with ample tags (especially late tags) - I've gotta believe bucks are going to get killed when they start to express their potential.

IIRC, Brandon basically said with how efficient hunters have gotten at finding/killing the best bucks, its near impossible to manage for mature bucks in a place like the gunnison with such good access without cutting tags #s below what near anyone would want but he acknowledges earlier season dates would help some survive. Seems an opportunity was missed at getting seasons moved earlier.

 

[littlebigtine]

Seems an opportunity was missed at getting seasons moved earlier.

Whoopsie

 

[HandgunHTR]

I strongly suspect that if 4 point and better bucks had much higher price tags and areas to hunt it would help a great deal. I also think Long Range Hunting is a problem. I doubt most people willing to shoot long range could qualify to do so before going hunting. Some how doubt even the ones bragging about it so much could qualify either. And I'd pretty much bet that if an animal get away they really don't know if it was wounded or simply missed. And how many dead animals are left to rot because where the deer was standing at 600+ yds looks a lot different when you get out there. I have a 300yd limit on shooting game animals and have only ever took it one time and then just to say I did it; sorry reason! Majority of deer I kill are well under 250 yds. I only shoot deer to fill the freezer.

I love how you assume that because you can't do it, other people can't and therefore it shouldn't be allowed.

I know a ton of hunters who shoot less than 10% of the rounds I do each year and you don't see me stating that they shouldn't be allowed to hunt.

As for your assumption that a deer/elk/whatever is hit and assumed missed, this is another reason why a few of us are pretty big advocates of suppressors and smaller cartridges. If you can see and/or hear your impact, there is no guessing. You know if you hit or not.

 

[Don Fischer]

I love how you assume that because you can't do it, other people can't and therefore it shouldn't be allowed.

I know a ton of hunters who shoot less than 10% of the rounds I do each year and you don't see me stating that they shouldn't be allowed to hunt.

As for your assumption that a deer/elk/whatever is hit and assumed missed, this is another reason why a few of us are pretty big advocates of suppressors and smaller cartridges. If you can see and/or hear your impact, there is no guessing. You know if you hit or not.

Yea right. Suppressor lets you hear a hit at 800 yds!

 

[wind gypsy]

Pardon our temporary stray to a Mule Deer management conversation, we've migrated back to a cartridge size and what suppressors allow you to hear conversation.

 

[HandgunHTR]

Yea right. Suppressor lets you hear a hit at 800 yds!

Let me ask, although I already know the answer. What personal experience do you have that leads you to believe you can't?

 

[rileybassman]

Yea right. Suppressor lets you hear a hit at 800 yds!

Absolutely can. Been behind the rifle or next to the shooter for animals shot at 730, 750, and 920 and heard impacts clearly on all 3.

Edit to add, I'd say it's actually easier at that range then 1-200 yards as the shot itself has become silent by the time the impact sound makes it back to the shooter/spotter.

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