What caused the Rokslide shift to smallest caliber and cartridges?

[Harvey_NW]

I'm not sure how any human can argue any point you made in this post.

Right! It would be different if there was a specific thread on 22 cal kills with 9k responses, including thousands of necropsy photos from deer, elk, moose, and bear, + others.

Oh wait..

 

[wyosam]

Right! It would be different if there was a specific thread on 22 cal kills with 9k responses, including thousands of necropsy photos from deer, elk, moose, and bear, + others.

Oh wait..

It’s a cartridge debate, which means it is an argument over how to skin a cat, and the number of ways to skin that cat is roughly equal to the number of cartridges there are x the number of bullet types that can be stuffed into those cartridges. Generally speaking, all work.


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[KHntr]

The only thing that matters are bullets, bullets, and bullets, in roughly that order.

 

[KHntr]

88 ELD m, intentional shoulder crush ala 223AI.

 

[KHntr]

88 ELD m, NOT broadside, intentional shoulder crush ala 223AI

 

[KHntr]

88 ELD m ala 223AI at 352 yards, square on.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

@KHntr heck yeah! Would you happen to have approximate impact velocities and more detailed photos of damage?

 

[Don Fischer]

The only thing that matters are bullets, bullets, and bullets, in roughly that order.

I don't buy that for one sec. What it is, is shot placement and the ability to make that shot. Without a doubt distruction has a lot to do with it but, there can be to much and to little for the shot taken. Give me a 22 short and I can feed my family deer all year. Give me a 338 mag and probably can't do the same with rabbits. Difference iss the ability of the shooter to place the shot. This of course would change depending on the shooter's. I had a 338 mag and had to shoot a lot, a whole lot, just to be fairly good. As a result I didn't hunt with it much! Had a 7x57 at the same time and hunted with it a lot! Every bullet has the ability to kill pretty much anything if it is properly placed. And properly placed depends on weather or not the user can actually shoot the rifle! I think more than we know bullet's get a bad rap for bad shooting.

 

[KHntr]

88 ELD m, dreaded shoulder knuckle crush ala 223AI…

 

[eric1115]

View attachment 792775
88 ELD m, NOT broadside, intentional shoulder crush ala 223AI

You clearly forgot to notify those moose that you were shooting such a marginal cartridge. They were under the misapprehension that they were shot by a pretty effective bullet!

 

[KHntr]

I don't buy that for one sec. What it is, is shot placement and the ability to make that shot. Without a doubt distruction has a lot to do with it but, there can be to much and to little for the shot taken. Give me a 22 short and I can feed my family deer all year. Give me a 338 mag and probably can't do the same with rabbits. Difference iss the ability of the shooter to place the shot. This of course would change depending on the shooter's. I had a 338 mag and had to shoot a lot, a whole lot, just to be fairly good. As a result I didn't hunt with it much! Had a 7x57 at the same time and hunted with it a lot! Every bullet has the ability to kill pretty much anything if it is properly placed. And properly placed depends on weather or not the user can actually shoot the rifle! I think more than we know bullet's get a bad rap for bad shooting.

How much damage a bullet does in the animal matters FAR more than the bullets diameter or weight, and that is dictated by construction/impact velocity/twist rate.

A 0.224” 77TMK or 88 ELD m through the guts will be lethal much faster than a 0.338 TTSX with the same placement.

 

[The Fish Box]

@KHntr can you elaborate on distances or impact velocities and do you have any pictures of the destruction?

 

[KHntr]

@KHntr heck yeah! Would you happen to have approximate impact velocities and more detailed photos of damage?

Impact velocities ranged from 2440 to 2307 on 2 moose and the elk, and 2007 on the smaller bull moose.

3/4 had either both shoulder knuckles broken at the scapula base, or a single (quartering in versus broadside) and the 1 bull had 15” of spine smashed when he was facing me. That one got the least penetration, but he was 352 yards out so…

Thinking really hard about building a 7 twist 22 creed so I can extend my 1800 fps impact velocity minimum by a couple hundred yards.

I have a few internal pics, see if I can dig them up.

Bigger bull moose lungs.

 

[wyosam]

The only thing that matters are bullets, bullets, and bullets, in roughly that order.

That is exactly right, A bullet (or pretty much anything else) through the vital organs is what matters. And while everyone wrings their hands over the minutiae, some guy is probably out there gutting an animal right now that he killed with a patched round ball. My favorite part of the 223 thread (which I have not read all of, it’s been a while)was when everyone was excitedly waiting for someone to whack a polar bear with a 223/tmk. Then finally some guy did it, but forgot the TMK and went with a 55gr FMJ. Coincidentally, that is probably the most common polar bear bullet by a lot, since Alaska Natives kill most of the bears, and they tend to shoot cheap ball ammo for a variety of reasons. Put something through the vitals and things will probably go your way.


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[KHntr]

@KHntr can you elaborate on distances or impact velocities and do you have any pictures of the destruction?

Mooses were:
151 yards both shoulder knuckles broken, bullet under the hide. Immediately down.
172 yards, onside shoulder knuckle smashed, bullet exit at last rib. (I think. It was dark and I was solo) 2 nd round a few seconds later as he was falling, straight through both lungs and exited.
352 yards, 15” of spine smashed. (We had two bulls down so I didn’t spend much time looking for the bullet remnants)
Elk was 109 yards, onside shoulder smashed to bits, exit at last rib. 2nd round 3 seconds later was in behind onside shoulder, out through offside shoulder with a 2” hole bored through it.

Pic is elk lungs with a softball bored through them.

 

[KHntr]

Moose ribs after onside shoulder lifted off.