Can I ask why you so often bring up Covid while discussing bullet manufacturers?
What caused the Rokslide shift to smallest caliber and cartridges?
- Thread starter MT_Wyatt
- Start date
So you believe their ballisticians are lying when they explain how they discovered the melting tip issue after doppler radar testing? Do you believe they are lying about the bc numbers, amax vs eldm?
How do you believe the "melting fiasco" correlated with "covid jab mandate"? I'm not really seeing it, but perhaps you can connect the dots for us.
I generally advise against engaging in a logical conversation with an illogical person. Momma said don’t talk to crazy people.
JGRaider
WKR
Covid was the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on the American people, and Steve Hornady was part of that, and I have zero respect for people like that. BTW, I don't think I've ever brought it up outside of Hornady.
With regards to the melting tip fiasco, there was never a bad review, whether by a professional or anyone else who supposedly shot alot, that disputed the BC numbers, accuracy, or hunting successes of the Amax bullets. If there were actually a melting tip problem it would have been discovered long before. The Amax still draws rave reviews by those that still use 'em when they can find them.
Pollo, is that the best you've got? You'd often times be better off taking notes than talking, and I bet your momma told you that too.
With regards to the melting tip fiasco, there was never a bad review, whether by a professional or anyone else who supposedly shot alot, that disputed the BC numbers, accuracy, or hunting successes of the Amax bullets. If there were actually a melting tip problem it would have been discovered long before. The Amax still draws rave reviews by those that still use 'em when they can find them.
Pollo, is that the best you've got? You'd often times be better off taking notes than talking, and I bet your momma told you that too.
So covid had nothing to do with "the melting tip fiasco"? Ok.
I guess I will take your word for it that hornady is lying.
I just ordered another case of 6 creed 108eldm.
I guess I will take your word for it that hornady is lying.
I just ordered another case of 6 creed 108eldm.
Gentlemen........keep the thread on the original topic. And I'm not even going to say please.
Randy
Randy
Axlrod
WKR
Deleted
If this is not relevant enough to the original topic, let me know.
The most obvious problem with that is if you have a active pump with a fixed volume in the system, the high pressure system will empty faster than the low pressure system from the same hole.
Beyond the clearly observed reality, every simple answer breaks down. Adrenalin (will just assume we are talking all stress hormones/pressors) can only explain so much. I think some of it probably comes down more to psychological, an alert animal has a clear idea that something bad happened and running must be the answer. An animal that is not alert is probably having a "what the hell just happened" moment. But, one cannot discount things like the metabolic state of muscle cells either.
Given that theory must always bow to reality, in many cases the theory doesn't matter as we have the outcomes, so long as one doesn't try to predict other outcomes based on the theory.
This. People who I respect very much when it comes to what they say about shooting still say some ignorant stuff about pathophysiology and medicine. Put differently, you will probably listen to your surgeon about the issue he fixed, but might not listen to his opinions on ballistics.
One of the less ignorant, but still wrong, examples is that a double lung shot kills by being a sucking chest wound. Which is almost never true. Anyone who is a nerd is free to open the spoiler below for a short explanation.
1. A sucking chest wound requires a hole 2/3rds the size of the wind pipe. Yet lung only shots with a small entrance and no exit still kills well.
2. Sucking chest wounds (simple pneumothorax) simplely don't kill efficiently, despite looking impressive. This was acknowledged by CoTCCC (Committee on Tactical Combat Casualty Care) as no coalition forces in Iraq or Afghanistan died from a simple pneumothorax.
3. Lungs are highly vascular (all the blood must pass through them before being pumped to the body). A bullet in the lungs tends to cause massive bleeding, the the closer one gets to the edges, the less bleeding.
4. Removal of half a healthy individuals lung capacity through surgery is minimally impactful on daily life, it takes a long time for heathy individuals to die simply from inefficient breathing and respiratory fatigue.
5. Tension pneumothorax/hemothorax kills quickly not because the lungs collapse, but because it causes rapid circulatory collapse through compression of the venacava and right heart, stopping blood from returning to the hear (simplified, but largely correct).
6. The arteries run beside the airways, sever an artery and an airway and you might start filling the healthy lungs with blood, but drowning taks several minutes, and this would be slower as the lungs must fill, so not likely to cause rapid incapacitation like we want hunting.
7. While a sucking chest wound can have tension pathology, that requires a hole at least 2/3rds the airway diameter and a flap of tissue that will let air in through that hole, but not out.
2. Sucking chest wounds (simple pneumothorax) simplely don't kill efficiently, despite looking impressive. This was acknowledged by CoTCCC (Committee on Tactical Combat Casualty Care) as no coalition forces in Iraq or Afghanistan died from a simple pneumothorax.
3. Lungs are highly vascular (all the blood must pass through them before being pumped to the body). A bullet in the lungs tends to cause massive bleeding, the the closer one gets to the edges, the less bleeding.
4. Removal of half a healthy individuals lung capacity through surgery is minimally impactful on daily life, it takes a long time for heathy individuals to die simply from inefficient breathing and respiratory fatigue.
5. Tension pneumothorax/hemothorax kills quickly not because the lungs collapse, but because it causes rapid circulatory collapse through compression of the venacava and right heart, stopping blood from returning to the hear (simplified, but largely correct).
6. The arteries run beside the airways, sever an artery and an airway and you might start filling the healthy lungs with blood, but drowning taks several minutes, and this would be slower as the lungs must fill, so not likely to cause rapid incapacitation like we want hunting.
7. While a sucking chest wound can have tension pathology, that requires a hole at least 2/3rds the airway diameter and a flap of tissue that will let air in through that hole, but not out.
Edited for grammar and spelling.
Last edited:
fwafwow
WKR
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2018
- Messages
- 5,981
Wow. How did you do the spoiler button? I don’t have any specialized skill or knowledge, at least relevant to RS, so I could put all of my posts in such a button and save lots of people a lot of time.
LOL, but seriously please don't make me have to click extra that much.
Orange circled icon followed by the red circled icon.
fwafwow
WKR
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2018
- Messages
- 5,981
yeti12
Lil-Rokslider
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2023
- Messages
- 248
Not everyone got the Jab at hornady. He also later issued a updated letter after more information came out and employee pushback. Was it right that he ever issued the first letter? No but he did go back on his words and issue an update saying it's not required.
Also the tips were melting and they are now using a different material for the tip. If things weren't all covered with NDA's there could be alot of information shared. Same goes for sierra, federal, barnes etc. You would be suprised about the process/materials.
Hornady eldm/x are some of the lower priced options compared to other bullets they compete with so I don't know why you are so worked up when you don't have ANY of your facts straight.
I'd love for you to spend a day over there with them and call them "clowns".
Now if sierra could just make a heavy 6.5 tmk I could stop shooting hornady.
JGRaider
WKR
The only reason Steve backed down on the jab mandate was because of the push back he received from many of his workers, and the general shooting public's comments. It was a bush league move.
So why did the Amax bullets shoot and perform so well if the bullet tips were all jacked up?
So why did the Amax bullets shoot and perform so well if the bullet tips were all jacked up?
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
- Messages
- 11,931
I have explained this before to you, I will try again in the chance that you are not trolling as normal.
The tips deform over time in flight (distance) due to friction. The deformation causes a reduction in BC versus what it should be. That is, the BC variation is much higher from near to far than it should be. The AMAX’s were developed before legitimate BC testing was done, and only when it was shot over Doppler radar was it seen why.
It doesn’t mean that AMAX’s suck, or were/are bad- just that they have higher drag at longer ranges than the exact same bullet with a different tip material. So do other bullets from other makers. Most that use Doppler radar know about it.
It was an inline improvement with an explanation of why- not some ridiculous conspiracy that you say it is.
The amaz bullets at long range had inconsistent BCs from what I read quite a while ago. Once they started doing more advanced radar tests they found the issues with them.
There you go. Didn’t see this one when I posted… @JGRaider
JGRaider
WKR
No, I'm not trolling. It just seems that some have anxiety issues when a guy disagrees with "popular" opinion.
I'll take your word for it on the Amax, but it's still very odd to me that people will still clamor for 162 Amax bullets for example, because they work so well. It's hard to imagine such good results from bullets with "melting tips". Why would anyone want any today if they suck so bad?
Technically you have the “popular” opinion by an immeasurable margin. Even on this forum alone. Plenty of places you can go to have your opinions validated since that’s what you seem to crave.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
- Messages
- 11,931
No- they have a problem with people that aren’t having a good faith discussion. You are consistently having bad faith interactions here.
Why is it odd? If BC was the only thing that mattered, everyone would be shooting lathe turned solids. A 30-40 point BC difference that shows up passed 600’ish yards does not effect most people’s shooting. Even still, if you can change a tip material and make a bullet better- why wouldn’t you?
This is exactly what I said about about a bad faith discussion. The vast majority of your responses are based on fallacies- generally appeals to authority and red herrings (as above).
Show one person that has said “Amax’s suck”. You are the only one that makes that nonsensical statement.
Similar threads
Featured Video
Latest Articles
- TT#60 Henry Ferguson Killing Big Muley’s with a Bow
- Zeiss SFL 12×50 Review
- Swarovski EL Range 12×42 TA Binocular Review
- Battle of the 2.0s: Seek Outside Cimarron vs Redcliff Floorless Shelters
- Quiet Kat Ranger XR Review
- Shoot2Hunt A Female Perspective
- Goodbye 270 WSM, Hello 6UM
- 2025 Head-to-Head Bow Test
- Sitka Ascent Pants Review
- TT#59 Wesley Warner Stalking Big Mule Deer Bucks