What caused the Rokslide shift to smallest caliber and cartridges?

[Ozarkansas]

I think you could notice the difference. We shoot 200 yard offhand matches at our club (Schutzen). They allow high power to compete with the Black powder cartridge rifles. Course of fire is 25 rounds per target/2 targets per match. Standing offhand, no sling, rest etc.

I have shot matches and 50 round practices many many times with bolt action 308, 30/06,270,243,6.5 Creed, 6.5 Prc, 25 Prc, 223,222, and 223, 6Arc, 6.5 Grendel in gas guns. Without a doubt the lower the recoil the better the 50 round score is.
To date my Sako Vixen varmint in 222 shooting 40 gr. bullets at 2400 fps is by far the most consistently best scoring gun I have shot, and it's not even close. I just finished an 11 lb. 300 Blackout bolt gun to use for this. I am shooting 100 gr. bullets at 2000 fps.

Right, I agree that less recoil is always easier to shoot accurately, particularly in field positions. For a tightly scored match, I think every little bit is significant. But if your goal is to hit vitals on big game, there’s going to be a point where any gains you get aren’t really that significant. Going from a 77 grain .223 to a 40 grain .222 might yield higher scores on a Schuetzen target @ 200 yards but the difference in hit rate on 8” steel @ 100 yards (a more realistic max offhand distance for me) might be marginal.

For myself, once I get down to about .243, it’s not the recoil of the gun that’s impacting my accuracy. 6.5x55? Yeah, I can tell it’s marginally harder to shoot offhand, but .243 isn’t costing me hits.

 

[Lou270]

Shooting scores with 10, 50, 100 rounds etc have nothing to do with hunting accuracy. Unless you just have a flinch, where any shot is bad, the effects of recoil is cumulative. Your score and groups may get worse as you go along. However, I can’t imagine shooting at a big game animal enough for recoil to become a problem if you don’t have a fundamental flinch with what you are shooting. By the way, practice helps over come this…

Give a better answer than I am troll because I said spotting shots is not a good reason to pick a cartridge for hunting. I shoot pigs year round with all manner of cartridges big to small and I can always tell if I hit them. That is at close range with a scope most of the time. It has always been there, but spotting shots became more prominant lingo with the in crowd the last few years with the uptick in long range shooting so shooters can adjust their wind hold. There is no room for that uncertainty in hunting and certainly not a reason to pick a hunting cartridge. Stay within your abilities, learn to control the rifle to keep the animal in scope for a follow up, and check all your shots whether you think you hit or miss no matter what you see in your scope. I have seen rounds go through an animal and zip off at odd angle looking like miss by a mile. Besides, ever wonder how great grandpa fudd killed game regularly with iron sights?

Lou

 

[LCV]

spotting shots is not a good reason to pick a cartridge for hunting.

. Stay within your abilities, learn to control the rifle to keep the animal in scope for a follow up.

Lou

These sentences don’t seem at odds to you?

 

[Lou270]

How many 223 rounds from a bolt gun did you shoot before it became obnoxious?

These sentences don’t seem at odds to y

No. The focus should be getting ready to shoot again not wondering how bad you missed because you didn’t know where to hold the first time. Any case, you can easily spot shots with something larger than a 223 and you can get back on target quickly if have control of the rifle even if scope bounced off momentarily if focus on it. I was shooting a 6.8W with 175s at 450 the other day and could watch the impact on gong. That rifle has a break, but I do same with unbraked 270 and 6.5cm.

Lou

 

[LCV]

No. The focus should be getting ready to shoot again

Lou

I may be a little slow but it’s my interpretation that’s exactly what all the smaller caliber guys are advocating for

 

[Grundy53]

I may be a little slow but it’s my interpretation that’s exactly what all the smaller caliber guys are advocating for

Exactly

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[Lou270]

I may be a little slow but it’s my interpretation that’s exactly what all the smaller caliber guys are advocating for

Speed of follow up is different terminology to me than spotting your shot. I could see some advantage there

Lou

 

[mt terry d]

How many 223 rounds from a bolt gun did you shoot before it became obnoxious?

?

 

[Lou270]

?

Me? Not had that problem, but I am not recoil sensitive. I am assuming that for people who need to shoot a 223 because they are it will be a problem. It is nothing to be ashamed of. The effects of recoil are cumilative and just because your shooting eventually gets worse does not mean your first shot will be. I don’t know why that is hard to grasp

Lou

 

[nobody]

What a whirlwind this thread has been. I’ve learned little about ballistics, but I have learned that apparently I have low testosterone because I offloaded my last magnum almost 2 years ago and my largest cartridge is now a 6.5 creed. I’ve also learned that planning to take a follow up shot on every animal makes me a poor hunter. Oh and recoil impulse level has zero bearing or affect, positive or negative, on a particular rifle’s shootability from field positions. I’ve been red pilled.

I’ve also learned that apparently rokslide is a stupid echo chamber with lies being perpetuated at every turn. Man, if it sucks so bad, I wonder why some of these users continue to login and give clicks and help with the google algorithm of rokslide? Makes a guy wonder…

But hey, I’m just some random guy on the internet…

 

[Big_wals]

But hey, I’m just some nobody on the internet…

Fixed it for ya.

 

[Macintosh]

… Besides, ever wonder how great grandpa fudd killed game regularly with iron sights?

Lou

to be fair, being overscoped is just as big a problem as excessive recoil with regard to being ready for a follow up, spotting a hit or miss, or just being able to see where an animal disappeared to. Compared to a scope with a limited field of view, it’s WAY easier with irons to get the gun back on target, stay on the animal, etc.
personally, I will usually advocate for a smaller cartridge because it makes all the above easier, not because it makes those things possible. To me thats an important distinction, although I also see that sometimes that is blurred by some folks here.
ime its the rare person that can back up their claims of being as proficient with a harder recoiling rifle as they can be with the same rifle but having less recoil, even for first-round hits. Im sure some can do it, Ive just never seen it—gun movement in recoil seems very real to me. Whether its enough to matter, hard to say at 300 yards and less which id estimate is the range 99% of shots at game are taken.

 

[mt terry d]

A 223 will eventually become obnoxious if shoot enough. Anybody with an older sibling who poked you in the same spot can tell you that

Me? Not had that problem, but I am not recoil sensitive. I am assuming that for people who need to shoot a 223 because they are it will be a problem. It is nothing to be ashamed of. The effects of recoil are cumilative and just because your shooting eventually gets worse does not mean your first shot will be. I don’t know why that is hard to grasp

Lou

You stated shooting the 223 enough would eventually become obnoxious, implying due to recoil.
I'm not recoil sensitive. I don't need to shoot a 223 because of recoil sensitivity.
I don't need to shoot a 223. <that's a period.
I've shot over a couple thousand rounds through it in the past year ( several hundred in a day) and it's funner to shoot every time and I'm getting better not worse.
I inferred your statement was based upon some personal experience or , as is commonly referred to here, "evidence", rather than just an uneducated feeling or thought.
Sorry. My mistake. I won't make the same mistake again.

 

[Reburn]

Speed of follow up is different terminology to me than spotting your shot. I could see some advantage there

Lou

How do you know where to put the follow up shot if you dont know where the first shot went?

 

[CobraChicken]

I didn't jump too far into the science and articles. For me it was cost and weight. Cheaper to shoot my 6.5prc and it weighs less than my 300 wby. Love both though.

Accurate with both but my wallet likes one better.

 

[fwafwow]

How do you know where to put the follow up shot if you dont know where the first shot went?

 

[Reburn]

View attachment 746603

 

[wyosam]

How do you know where to put the follow up shot if you dont know where the first shot went?

Valid if you assume the first shot was off due to ranging error or bad wind call. If it’s a result of buck fever/wobbly hold/jerked the trigger, correcting for the spotted shot helps nothing. Those are far more likely at the ranges most shots on game happen. Of course you can argue a light recoiling rifle reduces some of that, but certainly not all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lou270]

How do you know where to put the follow up shot if you dont know where the first shot went?

You should not be missing because you did not know where the shot was going relative to your hold.

Lou

 

[Reburn]

Valid if you assume the first shot was off due to ranging error or bad wind call. If it’s a result of buck fever/wobbly hold/jerked the trigger, correcting for the spotted shot helps nothing. Those are far more likely at the ranges most shots on game happen. Of course you can argue a light recoiling rifle reduces some of that, but certainly not all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You should not be missing because you did not know where the shot was going relative to your hold.

Lou

So one of yall argues you shouldn't be missing.

One argues you shouldnt be missing but if you do it was probably buck fever.

I just can't do this. Yall win. Forget I responded. Clearly yall have all the answers and never miss. You will not gain anything from lighter recoil or spotting your own shot or faster followups. Because you dont need follow ups because you never miss.