What caused the Rokslide shift to smallest caliber and cartridges?

[JGRaider]

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What constitutes getting the label "troll" around here, disagreeing with the consensus or what? I didn't notice Lou doing anything but offering his own opinion.

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

but some of the nonsense like you need to do so because recoil or spotting shots is silly and not relevant for hunting.

Watching impacts or misses is definitely not "silly"...it's actually the main point.

Ps saying ignorant stuff like the above is what earns the "troll" status.

 

[Ozarkansas]

it’s always important ask “can you shoot the difference” with these sorts of things. For me, the difference in recoil between a .223 and a .243 is noticeable but small enough to be irrelevant. The difference in recoil between a .270 and a 6.5x55 is pretty much imperceptible. 6.5x55 to .243 is a bigger jump but still doesn’t seem to matter on steel or animals. So less recoil = better accuracy, but in those rounds I’m not getting significantly better accuracy at the ranges I hunt by dropping in caliber. At least not within that range of calibers.
So for a lot of these discussions, the benefit is theoretical. If you shoot a bigger caliber well enough, and enjoy hunting with it, just keep using it

 

[wind gypsy]

Far as I know none of the big PRS guys shoot 223. I guess they know to shoot bigger cartridges when needed even if more recoil.

Lou

Of course. 223s do start to get blown around notably quicker at distance. I’ve not had 223 offer quite the top end precision and consistency as some of the other cartridges either.

 

[RockAndSage]

Far as I know none of the big PRS guys shoot 223. I guess they know to shoot bigger cartridges when needed even if more recoil.

Lou

And what percentage of PRS shooters are shooting .338 Lapua, or any magnum at all?

How many PRS matches have you shooting from extremely steep slopes on terrain that leaves you in such an awkward semi-standing/squatting/half-kneeling position that you'll smoke your own forehead with your scope without perfect form, or a low-recoil cartridge and gun?

Equating PRS to field realities of a big game hunt is about as useful as comparing IDPA to real-world self-defense - you may get something useful out of the practice, but it's easy to get a false perception of reality if that's all you do.

Rifles in .223 are about the equivalent of handguns in 9mm - most guys hunting with magnums are doing the functional equivalent of running an IDPA match with a .44magnum revolver. Sure, you can do it...but where does a .44mag fall on the spectrum of overall effectiveness - including shootability? Not the cartridge, but the effectiveness of the overall package, including your ability to make it an extension of your will, as fast as possible?

 

[RockAndSage]

If anyone's wondering what the most common PRS calibers are this year amongst the top shooters - it's over 75% 6mm, 10% .25cal, and only 6% shooting 6.5mm, followed by a smattering of .30cal, .22, and 7mm:

What The Pros Use: Precision Rifle Calibers & Cartridges

Welcome to “What The Pros Use” 2024 Edition! I surveyed the top-ranked shooters in the Precision Ri...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[wind gypsy]

I don’t think we need to call anyone who disagrees with the trends this thread talks about a troll.

 

[Axlrod]

it’s always important ask “can you shoot the difference” with these sorts of things. For me, the difference in recoil between a .223 and a .243 is noticeable but small enough to be irrelevant. The difference in recoil between a .270 and a 6.5x55 is pretty much imperceptible. 6.5x55 to .243 is a bigger jump but still doesn’t seem to matter on steel or animals. So less recoil = better accuracy, but in those rounds I’m not getting significantly better accuracy at the ranges I hunt by dropping in caliber. At least not within that range of calibers.
So for a lot of these discussions, the benefit is theoretical. If you shoot a bigger caliber well enough, and enjoy hunting with it, just keep using it

I think you could notice the difference. We shoot 200 yard offhand matches at our club (Schutzen). They allow high power to compete with the Black powder cartridge rifles. Course of fire is 25 rounds per target/2 targets per match. Standing offhand, no sling, rest etc.

I have shot matches and 50 round practices many many times with bolt action 308, 30/06,270,243,6.5 Creed, 6.5 Prc, 25 Prc, 223,222, and 223, 6Arc, 6.5 Grendel in gas guns. Without a doubt the lower the recoil the better the 50 round score is.
To date my Sako Vixen varmint in 222 shooting 40 gr. bullets at 2400 fps is by far the most consistently best scoring gun I have shot, and it's not even close. I just finished an 11 lb. 300 Blackout bolt gun to use for this. I am shooting 100 gr. bullets at 2000 fps. There is an advantage to larger diameter bullet holes in scoring. And your spotter can see them easier.

On the scoreboard at our shoots, in High power the smaller cartridges are at the top. In the Black powder cartridge rifles the smaller cartridges are at the top- it usually goes .32/40, .38/55, and 45/70,90,100.

 

[omicron1792]

I don’t think we need to call anyone who disagrees with the trends this thread talks about a troll.

I guess it depends on if they are disagreeing or trolling my friend. Pretty easy to spot the difference most of the time.

 

[Ozarkansas]

I think you could notice the difference. We shoot 200 yard offhand matches at our club (Schutzen). They allow high power to compete with the Black powder cartridge rifles. Course of fire is 25 rounds per target/2 targets per match. Standing offhand, no sling, rest etc.

I have shot matches and 50 round practices many many times with bolt action 308, 30/06,270,243,6.5 Creed, 6.5 Prc, 25 Prc, 223,222, and 223, 6Arc, 6.5 Grendel in gas guns. Without a doubt the lower the recoil the better the 50 round score is.
To date my Sako Vixen varmint in 222 shooting 40 gr. bullets at 2400 fps is by far the most consistently best scoring gun I have shot, and it's not even close. I just finished an 11 lb. 300 Blackout bolt gun to use for this. I am shooting 100 gr. bullets at 2000 fps.

Right, I agree that less recoil is always easier to shoot accurately, particularly in field positions. For a tightly scored match, I think every little bit is significant. But if your goal is to hit vitals on big game, there’s going to be a point where any gains you get aren’t really that significant. Going from a 77 grain .223 to a 40 grain .222 might yield higher scores on a Schuetzen target @ 200 yards but the difference in hit rate on 8” steel @ 100 yards (a more realistic max offhand distance for me) might be marginal.

For myself, once I get down to about .243, it’s not the recoil of the gun that’s impacting my accuracy. 6.5x55? Yeah, I can tell it’s marginally harder to shoot offhand, but .243 isn’t costing me hits.

 

[Lou270]

Shooting scores with 10, 50, 100 rounds etc have nothing to do with hunting accuracy. Unless you just have a flinch, where any shot is bad, the effects of recoil is cumulative. Your score and groups may get worse as you go along. However, I can’t imagine shooting at a big game animal enough for recoil to become a problem if you don’t have a fundamental flinch with what you are shooting. By the way, practice helps over come this…

Give a better answer than I am troll because I said spotting shots is not a good reason to pick a cartridge for hunting. I shoot pigs year round with all manner of cartridges big to small and I can always tell if I hit them. That is at close range with a scope most of the time. It has always been there, but spotting shots became more prominant lingo with the in crowd the last few years with the uptick in long range shooting so shooters can adjust their wind hold. There is no room for that uncertainty in hunting and certainly not a reason to pick a hunting cartridge. Stay within your abilities, learn to control the rifle to keep the animal in scope for a follow up, and check all your shots whether you think you hit or miss no matter what you see in your scope. I have seen rounds go through an animal and zip off at odd angle looking like miss by a mile. Besides, ever wonder how great grandpa fudd killed game regularly with iron sights?

Lou

 

[LCV]

spotting shots is not a good reason to pick a cartridge for hunting.

. Stay within your abilities, learn to control the rifle to keep the animal in scope for a follow up.

Lou

These sentences don’t seem at odds to you?

 

[Lou270]

How many 223 rounds from a bolt gun did you shoot before it became obnoxious?

These sentences don’t seem at odds to y

No. The focus should be getting ready to shoot again not wondering how bad you missed because you didn’t know where to hold the first time. Any case, you can easily spot shots with something larger than a 223 and you can get back on target quickly if have control of the rifle even if scope bounced off momentarily if focus on it. I was shooting a 6.8W with 175s at 450 the other day and could watch the impact on gong. That rifle has a break, but I do same with unbraked 270 and 6.5cm.

Lou

 

[LCV]

No. The focus should be getting ready to shoot again

Lou

I may be a little slow but it’s my interpretation that’s exactly what all the smaller caliber guys are advocating for

 

[Grundy53]

I may be a little slow but it’s my interpretation that’s exactly what all the smaller caliber guys are advocating for

Exactly

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[Lou270]

I may be a little slow but it’s my interpretation that’s exactly what all the smaller caliber guys are advocating for

Speed of follow up is different terminology to me than spotting your shot. I could see some advantage there

Lou

 

[mt terry d]

How many 223 rounds from a bolt gun did you shoot before it became obnoxious?

?

 

[Lou270]

?

Me? Not had that problem, but I am not recoil sensitive. I am assuming that for people who need to shoot a 223 because they are it will be a problem. It is nothing to be ashamed of. The effects of recoil are cumilative and just because your shooting eventually gets worse does not mean your first shot will be. I don’t know why that is hard to grasp

Lou

 

[nobody]

What a whirlwind this thread has been. I’ve learned little about ballistics, but I have learned that apparently I have low testosterone because I offloaded my last magnum almost 2 years ago and my largest cartridge is now a 6.5 creed. I’ve also learned that planning to take a follow up shot on every animal makes me a poor hunter. Oh and recoil impulse level has zero bearing or affect, positive or negative, on a particular rifle’s shootability from field positions. I’ve been red pilled.

I’ve also learned that apparently rokslide is a stupid echo chamber with lies being perpetuated at every turn. Man, if it sucks so bad, I wonder why some of these users continue to login and give clicks and help with the google algorithm of rokslide? Makes a guy wonder…

But hey, I’m just some random guy on the internet…

 

[Big_wals]

But hey, I’m just some nobody on the internet…

Fixed it for ya.