What caused the Rokslide shift to smallest caliber and cartridges?

[mxgsfmdpx]

Well it depends on how long between shots for those 20 shot groups. Are you saying a 7MM remington magnum or a 30-06 are heavy recoiling rifles? I don't shoot groups when hunting and don't take shots in non ideal positions if there is any distance involved. I do shoot a lot from "field type positions".

Limiting yourself is respectable if the confidence and skill isn’t there. Good on you for recognizing your capabilities, not very many folks are willing to admit that and apply it.

Some of us would rather regularly practice those “non ideal positions with distance involved” and still be able to make kills.

 

[mtnwrunner]

You know, sometimes it's just not worth debating. SMH.

Randy

 

[eric1115]

Well it depends on how long between shots for those 20 shot groups. Are you saying a 7MM remington magnum or a 30-06 are heavy recoiling rifles? I don't shoot groups when hunting and don't take shots in non ideal positions if there is any distance involved. I do shoot a lot from "field type positions".

However long you need. I regularly shoot 1.1-1.2 MOA 10+ shot groups with my low-testosterone .243AI, in a single string.

Not so radically different from your 7mm-08, really. Do you shoot your 7mmRM as well as your 7mm-08?

I found my 7mmRM took longer to zero (15+ rounds to get a true cone is tougher to do in a single string), longer to true, and more difficult to shoot well vs a 6mm of some variety.

I'm not aware of anyone who has actually tested this who says a heavier recoiling rifle can be shot just as well as a lighter recoiling one. I'm aware of a lot of people who have actually tested it that say less recoil results in better shooting. This also aligns with my personal (if informal and poorly documented) testing.

 

[IDVortex]

You know, sometimes it's just not worth debating. SMH.

Randy

One thing I'm learning after 32 years of dumbness. Somethings isn't worth putting effort in, especially when you're opinion won't be taken with any thought to it.

 

[FredH]

So, explain to me why so many benchrest shooters don't shoot large 30 caliber magnums? They buck the wind much better than the small caliber stuff those guys usually shoot.

Also, please educate me as to where energy has it's place since I obviously have a low IQ and very little experience.

So how does benchrest shooting equate into this conversation? OK what kind of rifles are used for 1000 yard shooting? Energy is a measure , though imperfect, of a bullets capability. Just a mathematical way to compare mass at speed. However it is the standard we use and is as good a method as any.

RS gold

Must be, those who think there is nothing a 300 Win mag can do better than a 243 or 6.5 Creed really are not thinking it through.

 

[Formidilosus]

it is the standard we use

It is not “the standard” anyone involved in legitimate terminal ballistics use. However, gunwriters love to talk about nonsensical things like ft-lbs of energy.

and is as good a method as any.

Not remotely true.

Must be, those who think there is nothing a 300 Win mag can do better than a 243 or 6.5 Creed really are not thinking it through.

You should read more here.

 

[Marbles]

Energy is a measure , though imperfect, of a bullets capability. Just a mathematical way to compare mass at speed. However it is the standard we use and is as good a method as any.

No, it is not the standard, nor is it as good a method as any.

Energy, without a whole lot of other data, says nothing dependable about what a projectile does to tissue. For a known projectile, velocity is more useful.

To illustrate.

A 200 pound great white ape on meth is coming after you/your family inside a house, put in order of preference which firearm projectiles you want to be throwing out of the below list. To keep it sporty, you are stuck with a single shot.
A. 117 ft.lbs
B. 129 ft.lbs
C. 343 ft.lbs
D. 1256 ft.lbs
E. 444 ft.lbs

What do those numbers tell you about lethality?

Spoiler: rounds

A is 223 subsonic hollow point https://beckammunition.com/ammunition/.223-Rem/223-rem-subsonic-52gr-jhp-tnt.html
B is a 12 ga rubber rocket https://www.lesslethal.com/products/12-gauge/als1202hv-detail
C is 45 acp 230 grain Gold dot
D is 5.56 green tips
E sub sonic 200 gr, 30 call Barns TSX (300 blackout)

 

[PNWGATOR]

No, it is not the standard, nor is it as good a method as any.

Energy, without a whole lot of other data, says nothing dependable about what a projectile does to tissue. For a known projectile, velocity is more useful.

To illustrate.

A 200 pound great white ape on meth is coming after you/your family inside a house, put in order of preference which firearm projectiles you want to be throwing out of the below list. To keep it sporty, you are stuck with a single shot.
A. 117 ft.lbs
B. 129 ft.lbs
C. 343 ft.lbs
D. 1256 ft.lbs
E. 444 ft.lbs

What do those numbers tell you about lethality?

Spoiler: rounds

A is 223 subsonic hollow point https://beckammunition.com/ammunition/.223-Rem/223-rem-subsonic-52gr-jhp-tnt.html
B is a 12 ga rubber rocket https://www.lesslethal.com/products/12-gauge/als1202hv-detail
C is 45 acp 230 grain Gold dot
D is 5.56 green tips
E sub sonic 200 gr, 30 call Barns TSX (300 blackout)

Gimme an M4 with 77TMKs everyday, all day for this scenario.

 

[Gstew1930]

It was quartered to me at 414 yards. Placement was good, but the exit went out through the guts.

on practice & training. I’ve got about 700 rounds down range in field conditions this year.

By the way.. my post was tongue in cheek.. my “insurance” is a 6 CM shooting 112 Match Burners.

What was the impact velocity here? I’m planning on hunting with the MB’s this season. I didn’t know they caused that kind of damage lol

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

What was the impact velocity here? I’m planning on hunting with the MB’s this season. I didn’t know they caused that kind of damage lol

2,450 fps.

 

[pilgrim7]

Oh the horror! No one is giving up precision by using a 7MM RM or 300 Win Mag. In no way does a 6.5 increase hit rates. What increases hit rates is taking shots within your level of competency and the cartridges capability. However bullet mass and energy have their place.

Do you have any data to back up this fuddery?

 

[Big_wals]

However long you need. I regularly shoot 1.1-1.2 MOA 10+ shot groups with my low-testosterone .243AI, in a single string.

Lol. Im gonna start calling my .243 the Low T RSS

 

[mt terry d]

You and I rarely agree, but we 100% align here and that feels nice.

Might I suggest TRT?

Just kidding!! I couldn't help it. Well, I could but that's not how I roll.

I'm a self-certified born again 223/77TMK Fanboi, no excuses made.

320 yards. One shot. Kept in scope because there were another hundred elk
in the bunch and their escape route was across the fence on property I was
not allowed to hunt. And I've shot elk with the big mags, seen others do it and
know elk can pack a lot of lead at times, even with well placed shots.

 

[ORJoe]

Must be, those who think there is nothing a 300 Win mag can do better than a 243 or 6.5 Creed really are not thinking it through.

There are things a 300 WM can do better than a 243 or 6.5C.
Whatever those little cartridges can do at 700 to 1,000 yards, the 300 WM can do the same at 1200 to 1500.
Are you a good enough shot to hit something that much further out and use the extra whatever the big one provides? Most people aren't.
So the extra cost of the big WM doesn't come with a benefit that most people could even use.

 

[Lou270]

I have no issue with somebody using a 223 to hunt if that is what they want, but some of the nonsense like you need to do so because recoil or spotting shots is silly and not relevant for hunting. If you can shoot your rifle well, whether a 300 or 223 then good to go. The fact you can shoot a 223 better for a 30 shot string is irrelevant. A 223 will eventually become obnoxious if shoot enough. Anybody with an older sibling who poked you in the same spot can tell you that Spotting shots that drift left or right on steel is one thing. If that is happening to you hunting learn how to stalk and get closer vs thinking practice is going to help. The best PRS shooters who are world class at shooting and reading wind know this and use mild cartridges to spot shots. However, That is piss poor reason to use a cartridge for shooting animals and is at best a false sense of security for taking shots you should not

Lou

 

[mt terry d]

A 223 will eventually become obnoxious if shoot enough.

How many 223 rounds from a bolt gun did you shoot before it became obnoxious?

 

[wind gypsy]

I have no issue with somebody using a 223 to hunt if that is what they want, but some of the nonsense like you need to do so because recoil or spotting shots is silly and not relevant for hunting. If you can shoot your rifle well, whether a 300 or 223 then good to go. The fact you can shoot a 223 better for a 30 shot string is irrelevant. A 223 will eventually become obnoxious if shoot enough. Anybody with an older sibling who poked you in the same spot can tell you that Spotting shots that drift left or right on steel is one thing. If that is happening to you hunting learn how to stalk and get closer vs thinking practice is going to help. The best PRS shooters who are world class at shooting and reading wind know this and use mild cartridges to spot shots. However, That is piss poor reason to use a cartridge for shooting animals and is at best a false sense of security for taking shots you should not

Or the best PRS shooters know they shoot smaller cartridges better.

 

[Lou270]

Far as I know none of the big PRS guys shoot 223. I guess they know to shoot bigger cartridges when needed even if more recoil.

Lou

 

[id_jon]

Far as I know none of the big PRS guys shoot 223. I guess they know to shoot bigger cartridges when needed even if more recoil.

Lou

A 18-25lb 6.5cm(at the biggest) with a brake is not going to recoil much more(if at all) than a 7-10lb 223 with a can.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]