What caused the Rokslide shift to smallest caliber and cartridges?

[Mike Buell]

How many kids with ADHD does it take to change a lightbulb?


Wanna go ride bikes?





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[TaperPin]

It's definitely fun to watch big target reactions.

Do you think there's a correlation between a gel block doing a double back flip and the brain being deprived of oxygen?

Gosh, that might be it. Lol

 

[Szwampdonkey]

Cause dudes are getting softer nowadays so you see less of the "I shoot magnum". In my day to day observations that is the ONLY factor ive been able to isolate. Same reason guys have no problem going to crossbows, ebikes, etc. They arent worried about being called out for stuff by their peers anymore.

Why shoot a lot of recoil if you dont have to worry about your peers calling out your manhood for not shooting it?

 

[JohnJohnson]

Cause dudes are getting softer nowadays so you see less of the "I shoot magnum".
Why shoot a lot of recoil if you dont have to worry about your peers calling out your manhood for not shooting it?

The only thing you've been able to think of is that you're better and more manly than everyone else?

 

[Szwampdonkey]

The only thing you've been able to think of is that you're better and more manly than everyone else?

Whoa hold on, did that offend you?

 

[wind gypsy]

?

It is massively different.


This is the same “type” of bullet as most tipped match bullets, but optimized for a 300 mag, is this what you want?

View attachment 640093


Or this?
View attachment 640095



Or this?

View attachment 640096

So is the big magnum to blame for the shitty shooting in these examples?

 

[gerry35]

The only thing you've been able to think of is that you're better and more manly than everyone else?

I'm not referring to the post you quoted or commenting on that but this thread is full of guys doing the same thing to those who question if there are applications where small rounds aren't a good idea. Anyone who doesn't want to shoot certain cartridges and bullets are called "fudds". I'm sure we all could do better in being respectful.

 

[Formidilosus]

So is the big magnum to blame for the shitty shooting in these examples?

Both hind quarter shots were follow ups to the first shots which were both lungs shots (in one you can see the blood coming out of the chest). Though I’m unsure what that has to do with the wounds created by certain bullets?


However, here’s a single chest hit. Is this an acceptable wound cavity to you?




Though it was a quartering too presentation, maybe this one is good? There is chest and stomach contents showing.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Whoa hold on, did that offend you?

I'm leaning towards you being a troll. If so, I respect your game sir.

Anyone who doesn't want to shoot certain cartridges and bullets are called "fudds".

I can't really account for every post since I haven't read each one and I only wrote mine. But I think most of the "fudd" thing is people saying dumb things like knockdown power or other crap that's "common knowledge" in the hunting community but hasn't been true for decades, if ever.

 

[gerry35]

I'm leaning towards you being a troll. If so, I respect your game sir.


I can't really account for every post since I haven't read each one and I only wrote mine. But I think most of the "fudd" thing is people saying dumb things like knockdown power or other crap that's "common knowledge" in the hunting community but hasn't been true for decades, if ever.

I certainly can understand not being to be able to read every post. I only follow a few threads or would never be able to get any work done. I don't put a lot of stock in knockdown power either but there has to be some difference between say a 243 as opposed to a 375 as an extreme example. Given equal bullet expansion the bigger round is going to make a much bigger hole. That's probably why they thought it as "knockdown power".

 

[wyosam]

The only thing you've been able to think of is that you're better and more manly than everyone else?

I don’t think that’s what he said. I think he said that toxic masculinity (a term often used to describe the peer pressure men put on other men, including kids, to do stupid shit) is less accepted than it has been in the past. Men can cry now, we can say a puppy is cute, and we can shoot a smaller cartridge based on objective evidence now instead of the pervasive belief from the past that equated head stamps with the size of your dong.


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[JohnJohnson]

I don’t think that’s what he said. I think he said that toxic masculinity (a term often used to describe the peer pressure men put on other men, including kids, to do stupid shit) is less accepted than it has been in the past. Men can cry now, we can say a puppy is cute, and we can shoot a smaller cartridge based on objective evidence now instead of the pervasive belief from the past that equated head stamps with the size of your dong.


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That's a REALLY generous reading of what he said, especially given his reply to me after that. But maybe you're right.

 

[wyosam]

That's a REALLY generous reading of what he said, especially given his reply to me after that. But maybe you're right.

I may be off, but that was my (generous) interpretation. Because I think that IS part of the why. Yes, there is clear objective evidence. But without the changing behaviors, getting people on board enough to create the large body of evidence wouldn’t have worked as well as it has. It’s a small part of the hunting community that is there, but it will gradually shift. There will probably always be holdouts, even if they recognize the effectiveness. Maybe in 20 years, “Fudd guns” will have special seasons like muzzleloaders.


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[Bluefish]

I certainly can understand not being to be able to read every post. I only follow a few threads or would never be able to get any work done. I don't put a lot of stock in knockdown power either but there has to be some difference between say a 243 as opposed to a 375 as an extreme example. Given equal bullet expansion the bigger round is going to make a much bigger hole. That's probably why they thought it as "knockdown power".

Here is my thoughts after reading this huge thread and browsing in some of the others that are source material. There is more energy in say a 375 vs a 243. If shot with a bullet that dumps energy the same, the 375 does way more damage. Do too much damage and you destroy the animal. Because of this people and mfg tend to use ammo that does enough damage and that’s all that’s needed for a clean harvest. as demonstrated a 223 with the right bullet can do enough damage. A 223 can easily not do enough damage. the 375 can probably do enough with a simple solid and the problem is keeping it from doing too much damage.
i think most don’t understand terminal ballistics and believe all the BS written over the years in gun rags. I know I didn’t until I started to try and figure out why this bullet worked and this one didn’t. In the end, unless it’s a head shot, you have to deprive the brain of oxygen. That happens with destroyed lungs or heart. To stop them in the tracks, you have to disrupt the nervous system and hope that lungs and heart give out before it wakes up.

To get that just right performance from a bullet it has to arrive at target at the right speed. Too fast, opens too quickly, too slow, doesn’t open enough or at all. the goal here is to match the range and speed to get the bullet to work properly. given the steels for barrels, pressure is limited to about 60k psi, barrel life can’t be too short and that gives speeds around 3000 fps with copper and lead bullets. To shoot longer distances, drag has to be reduced as velocity can’t get much higher. the limit for drag comes down to weight. Can’t get too heavy or can’t handle the recoil. Assume 30ftlbs is about max.

this has all made me look at lower recoiling rounds to help improve my shooting. The only downside is due to hunting regs, has to be a minimum of 35 cal. No 223 or 243 options.

 

[Chris_in_Idaho]

...I don't put a lot of stock in knockdown power either but there has to be some difference between say a 243 as opposed to a 375 as an extreme example. Given equal bullet expansion the bigger round is going to make a much bigger hole. That's probably why they thought it as "knockdown power".

There definitely is a difference between the damage done by a big round and a small round given equal bullet expansion. But that's the point I believe is being made throughout threads like this one and the 223 thread.

People aren't choosing equal bullets in the small rounds and big rounds, people are typically choosing controlled expansion bullets for the big boomers which greatly reduce their wound channel. Between a big controlled expansion bullet and a small heavy for caliber match bullet, the playing field is leveled or actually favoring the smaller round.

If you were to shoot the same style bullet in a big magnum, something like a 195TMK from a 300 win mag, you get the huge destructive wounds like Form is showing where the whole rear quarters are blown out and the entire vitals are turned inside out.

So yes, bigger bullet = bigger wound when all other things are equal, but I don't think most people want that excessive destruction on an animal they're harvesting for food. Additionally, in my own experience, the same thought process that wants a magnum also wants high weight retention and potential for very deep penetration. So bonded or partition or mono "premium hunting bullets" are going to get chosen which make a much smaller wound.

So you're greatly reducing the wound that the magnum can create, while others are maximizing the wound a 223 can create, and you end up with equal killing ability.

Disclaimer: I'm early in my journey, I'm not speaking completely out of my own experience. But I have good reading comprehension and can see what's being present by guys like Form and I can see the breakdown in logic of the nay saying arguments.

 

[WestTN2288]

Both hind quarter shots were follow ups to the first shots which were both lungs shots (in one you can see the blood coming out of the chest). Though I’m unsure what that has to do with the wounds created by certain bullets?


However, here’s a single chest hit. Is this an acceptable wound cavity to you?

View attachment 640442


Though it was a quartering too presentation, maybe this one is good? There is chest and stomach contents showing.
View attachment 640443

Do we ever get to know what bullet/velocity that was from??


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[PNWGATOR]

My guess, 178 Amax out of a 300WM

 

[Formidilosus]

Do we ever get to know what bullet/velocity that was from??

My guess, 178 Amax out of a 300WM

That is correct for three of them. The other two were modified OTM’s.

 

[woods89]

Cause dudes are getting softer nowadays so you see less of the "I shoot magnum". In my day to day observations that is the ONLY factor ive been able to isolate. Same reason guys have no problem going to crossbows, ebikes, etc. They arent worried about being called out for stuff by their peers anymore.

Why shoot a lot of recoil if you dont have to worry about your peers calling out your manhood for not shooting it?

So Pat Sinclair is a wuss?

 

[Szwampdonkey]

So Pat Sinclair is a wuss?

Never heard of him