What are your thoughts on the Kung Flu?

[Mosster47]

Buzz and Mosster.......lets all remember this thread and these 3 posts and revisit them in 6 months. Lets see if we are more closely back to the "norm" of 3-4 months ago, or if we more closely resemble the things you two speak of.

Y'all seem to relish in the idea and the expressing of how our lives will not go back to normal.......even though they already starting to in some states.

I think Buzz and I are talking about different things than what you are referencing. For the bulk of those 25M that are unemployed right now if restaurants open and they go back to their job then sure everything looks the same to them. If you physically have to go do your job somewhere on a similar routine then that has to go back to normal or that job won't exist anymore. Historically automation and other methods replace a decent amount of those type jobs once they are vacated by outside conditions. Let's hope not many experience that.

For the over 50% of the workforce that don't have to be on a set physical routine the cat isn't going to go back into the bag. There is going to be some things to feel out though. Work schedule will be one of them. As an example my agency has offices all over the globe. My office hours were 6am-2:30pm and if you didn't catch me by 2:30 it was waiting until tomorrow. Well, everyone I work with sets their hours and we have time zone differences. Since we all went to full teleworking I have people expecting me to answer them at 5am all the way to 6pm at night. I've entertained that for this short stretch, but at some point there is going to be that come to Jesus meeting so everyone can eat lunch and enjoy dinner without answering emails and phone calls.

It would be both short sighted and a huge waste of money in both the public and private sector for the tens of millions of people who don't punch a time clock to go back to the old way of doing business. This is my opinion, but what folks like me are doing now is the new normal, we just haven't fully let it sink in.

I've said all I need to on this. I truly hope everyone that has been effected by this can get back to some sort of financial normalcy ASAP.

 

[ewade07]

All i know is i can go shed hunting again....praise to Baby Jesus!!!!

 

[Dustin the wind]

The human mind forgets very easily, it’s a defense mechanism. Most people are not ready to let go of the way of life they enjoyed a few months ago, the convenience they had before. Some will see the vulnerabilities in their lives and make changes, they are the smarter minority.

All you need to do is look at the crazy terror attacks we’ve had, how did people act after that? Right back out there doing the same things. Those were real direct threats and this is basically another flu sold to us as another ebola.

Yes let’s revisit the doomsday scenarios in just 1-2 months.

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz and Mosster.......lets all remember this thread and these 3 posts and revisit them in 6 months. Lets see if we are more closely back to the "norm" of 3-4 months ago, or if we more closely resemble the things you two speak of.

Y'all seem to relish in the idea and the expressing of how our lives will not go back to normal.......even though they already starting to in some states.

Why would you want things to go back to "normal"?

Does it make fiscal sense for an office to rent, lease, or build a 20K square foot office space, when they could build one half to one third the size and allow people to work from home? What kind of savings could they experience from not having to heat, cool, etc. a big office? How about all the time people waste Bsing in an office? What about the savings to loss time due to flu, common colds because it spreads through the office when some clown comes to work sick?

How about the benefits to the employee? Less money, time, spent commuting to work. Study after study shows efficiency in working from home and more productive at home. More time to spend with family, exercise, cooking dinner instead of ordering out, etc. instead of spending time commuting. More money in your pocket when you aren't paying for gas to commute to work, tires, batteries, oil changes, etc. etc. etc. Added expense of insurance for your commuter car.

Less driving, less flying, all equals less traffic, less emissions, cleaner air, cleaner water...

Where's the downside?

Make no mistake, we aren't going back to the old "normal"...isn't happening and I'm happy we aren't.

I get it, change is often scary and resistance to it is normal. We all have our own comfort levels with the known, and uncomfort with the unknown.

I'm ready for how we do business to leave the 1950's model...and excited for it. IMO, if anything positive comes from covid19, this is it.

 

[Dustin the wind]

A few people working from home doesn’t change society all that much, I’ve done both. A lot of owners and management don’t even trust their employees enough to be self starters and work from home. Some will make the change, but will that radically change the fabric of America? Mmmmm naw.

 

[SgtTanner]

Why would you want things to go back to "normal"?

Does it make fiscal sense for an office to rent, lease, or build a 20K square foot office space, when they could build one half to one third the size and allow people to work from home? What kind of savings could they experience from not having to heat, cool, etc. a big office? How about all the time people waste Bsing in an office? What about the savings to loss time due to flu, common colds because it spreads through the office when some clown comes to work sick?

How about the benefits to the employee? Less money, time, spent commuting to work. Study after study shows efficiency in working from home and more productive at home. More time to spend with family, exercise, cooking dinner instead of ordering out, etc. instead of spending time commuting. More money in your pocket when you aren't paying for gas to commute to work, tires, batteries, oil changes, etc. etc. etc. Added expense of insurance for your commuter car.

Less driving, less flying, all equals less traffic, less emissions, cleaner air, cleaner water...

Where's the downside?

Make no mistake, we aren't going back to the old "normal"...isn't happening and I'm happy we aren't.

I get it, change is often scary and resistance to it is normal. We all have our own comfort levels with the known, and uncomfort with the unknown.

I'm ready for how we do business to leave the 1950's model...and excited for it. IMO, if anything positive comes from covid19, this is it.

You might be right about some of this. What does your crystal ball say about me drawing a moose tag this year? Or maybe there won’t be fuel available for me to drive out to hunt anyway.

Like I said, you might be right. But why speak in absolutes when there really isn’t a way to know? I know I won’t be working from home. If some do, that’s awesome. I hope that’s the case. But let’s not pretend our society will be doing a complete 180 and turning upside down.

 

[BuzzH]

You might be right about some of this. What does your crystal ball say about me drawing a moose tag this year? Or maybe there won’t be fuel available for me to drive out to hunt anyway.

Like I said, you might be right. But why speak in absolutes when there really isn’t a way to know? I know I won’t be working from home. If some do, that’s awesome. I hope that’s the case. But let’s not pretend our society will be doing a complete 180 and turning upside down.

Here's what I know...the bean counters and those that are savvy with business will make the changes to do exactly what I've stated. If they don't, well, suffer the consequences.

If business A can offer me a better deal by not having a huge office, with the same service...its a no brainer for me.

I don't need to shake hands with a car salesman with slicked back hair to buy a new vehicle.

I don't care if my banker is writing up my home loan while wearing his/her pajamas at home.

I couldn't care less if my insurance guy is underwriting my policy wearing a pair of shorts with a tank top at his house.

In fact, I'd prefer they do exactly that, if it saves me some money. Plus, I don't need the hassle of having to drive across town to their office to do that kind of business.

As to that moose tag...I suspect you didn't fill out a paper application, write a check, or drive down to a GF office to apply. BTW, you can buy all the fuel you want right now, for .99 cents a gallon here. Another benefit to not driving all over hell and back, less demand, more supply and lower price.

Phil Harris had a good quote that applies, "you can watch things happen, you can make things happen, or you can wonder what the f$^% happened".

People and businesses that want to continue to live in the "good old days" and do business the same old way, they'll be saying one of those things, you decide which is most likely.

 

[BuzzH]

A few people working from home doesn’t change society all that much, I’ve done both. A lot of owners and management don’t even trust their employees enough to be self starters and work from home. Some will make the change, but will that radically change the fabric of America? Mmmmm naw.

If managers don't trust their employee's they hired the wrong people and that's on them. I've seen so much time wasted in offices DUE to management its as laughable as it is sad.

You don't build trust by hovering over your employees in a cubicle all day...that's a fact. What you build doing that is resentment..

 

[Dustin the wind]

If managers don't trust their employee's they hired the wrong people and that's on them. I've seen so much time wasted in offices DUE to management its as laughable as it is sad.

You don't build trust by hovering over your employees in a cubicle all day...that's a fact. What you build doing that is resentment..

You don’t build trust that way but yet many companies operate like this. These aren’t all baby boomers operating like this either. I have worked in IT offices from San Diego to San Jose to SF and Portland. A lot of these idiots are in there 40s and 50s.

One thing you fail to take into account is the costs associated with having full staff remote. You usually need a robust central database, servers, a paid remote hosting service like cisco. A full time IT staff, backups. A crew just to set all this crap up. A programmer on the back end maybe. Tens of thousands just to get it up and running. The support and maintenance is an ongoing full time separate cost. It’s not just login to free skype or line and here we magically go.

Edit: i also failed to mention the hundreds of non employee supplied standardized laptops for possibly hundreds of employees. You are usually almost never allowed to use your own machine. Extremely F-ing

 

[BuzzH]

You don’t build trust that way but yet many companies operate like this. These aren’t all baby boomers operating like this either. I have worked in IT offices from San Diego to San Jose to SF and Portland. A lot of these idiots are in there 40s and 50s.

One thing you fail to take into account is the costs associated with having full staff remote. You usually need a robust central database, servers, a paid remote hosting service like cisco. A full time IT staff, backups. A crew just to set all this crap up. A programmer on the back end maybe. Tens of thousands just to get it up and running. The support and maintenance is an ongoing full time separate cost. It’s not just login to free skype or line and here we magically go.

Sure, I agree with that...but, doesn't the same office need programmers, IT staff, servers, and all that crap in the office as well?

How much does a business, with say, 300 employees pay if they all need an office space? Heat for the office? Priced office furniture lately? Electric bill? Water, sewer? Janitorial service?

I also agree that idiots aren't found in a single generation, that's for damn sure.

 

[SgtTanner]

Here's what I know...the bean counters and those that are savvy with business will make the changes to do exactly what I've stated. If they don't, well, suffer the consequences.

If business A can offer me a better deal by not having a huge office, with the same service...its a no brainer for me.

I don't need to shake hands with a car salesman with slicked back hair to buy a new vehicle.

I don't care if my banker is writing up my home loan while wearing his/her pajamas at home.

I couldn't care less if my insurance guy is underwriting my policy wearing a pair of shorts with a tank top at his house.

In fact, I'd prefer they do exactly that, if it saves me some money. Plus, I don't need the hassle of having to drive across town to their office to do that kind of business.

As to that moose tag...I suspect you didn't fill out a paper application, write a check, or drive down to a GF office to apply. BTW, you can buy all the fuel you want right now, for .99 cents a gallon here. Another benefit to not driving all over hell and back, less demand, more supply and lower price.

Phil Harris had a good quote that applies, "you can watch things happen, you can make things happen, or you can wonder what the f$^% happened".

People and businesses that want to continue to live in the "good old days" and do business the same old way, they'll be saying one of those things, you decide which is most likely.

Hey Buzz, not trying to be argumentative. I agree with everything you’re saying. I just disagree with the scope. There will still be some things that cannot be done from home, so to speak in such absolute terms as you have (or I perceive you have) seems flawed.

As to the moose tag, you’re right. I’m a resident of ID but on mil orders in another state, so I did apply online. However, my brother applied at his local Cal Ranch store. If I were physically present to do so, I would like have done that.

Once so many people are teleworking, what happens when the boss finds they’re paying people to surf the Rokslide Classifieds? Maybe their pay will be docked and the company can save some coin and hire another employee. More jobs is a good thing, right?

 

[Dustin the wind]

Sure, I agree with that...but, doesn't the same office need programmers, IT staff, servers, and all that crap in the office as well?

How much does a business, with say, 300 employees pay if they all need an office space? Heat for the office? Priced office furniture lately? Electric bill? Water, sewer? Janitorial service?

I also agree that idiots aren't found in a single generation, that's for damn sure.

The cost will depend on the type of business. If the business is already IT oriented then the cost will be negligible, if not, it’s a steep expensive learning curve fraught with lots of wasted money. It will make sense for some financially but not others.

 

[BuzzH]

Hey Buzz, not trying to be argumentative. I agree with everything you’re saying. I just disagree with the scope. There will still be some things that cannot be done from home, so to speak in such absolute terms as you have (or I perceive you have) seems flawed.

As to the moose tag, you’re right. I’m a resident of ID but on mil orders in another state, so I did apply online. However, my brother applied at his local Cal Ranch store. If I were physically present to do so, I would like have done that.

Once so many people are teleworking, what happens when the boss finds they’re paying people to surf the Rokslide Classifieds? Maybe their pay will be docked and the company can save some coin and hire another employee. More jobs is a good thing, right?

You don't think employees surf the net in an office? Laffin'...

I've supervised a lot of employees over the years, frankly, as long as the work gets done, I don't give a chit how they do it or what hours they work. But, if the job isn't done, we have a problem, then they get micromanaged. IME, most people want to do a good job, the more you trust them, the better they do.

I also agree, always going to be jobs that a person cant do from home. Until trees can walk into my office, I'll be one that cant work from home all the time. But, I sure as hell don't need to be driving across town to an office when I'm doing computer based stuff all day either.

 

[ozyclint]

will businesses running with lower costs by having employees work from home really save you money? maybe the 'smart' businesses will charge the same or only marginally low enough to attract more business and then add the difference to their profit margin.

business is usually very quick to pass on costs. not so with savings.

 

[Shrek]

We aren't going back to "normal", may as well embrace it.

Brick and mortars that aren't seriously rethinking their business plans...dinosaurs and they'll go the way of the dinosaur if they don't adapt.

Businesses are going to realize they don't need 10-20K square foot offices forcing their employees into cubicles for 8 hours a day. They don't need to waste peoples time flying them all over the country for face to face meetings that can be done with teams, zoom, webx, etc. Employees are going to wake up and realize if they're able to work from home, they don't need a commuter vehicle...that needs a tank or two or fuel a week, oil changes, tires, brake pads, rotors. They'll also realize what a waste of time commuting to the office is...what an unproductive, stressful, time sink that is.

Online grocery shopping...we were using it before, I don't have any plans on going into grocery stores often, if at all. Going to really break my heart not having to listen to a butch of whining, crying snot nosed kids that run around licking the floors and touching everything they can get their grubby hands on. Or waiting in line.

It goes on and on...

The times, they are a changing...and we aren't going back.

I can promise you that my broker can’t wait to bring all the staff back to the office. I’m personally and everyone I know can’t wait to be going out to eat in our favorite crowded restaurants. I think almost all of America will go back to as close to the old normal as they can just as fast as they can. I for one am glad we’re not a nation of cowards hiding from the boogie man.
I’ll also predict that the .gov experts who hyped the end of the world plague will have lost much credibility and when a real super bug comes people won’t believe them.
This is the reality in the social circles I run in. Three to five deaths of people with nine toes already in the grave per thousand is not justification for wrecking the economy and millions of Americans financial future. I’m now going back out to the pool with thirtyish friends and enjoying Sunday funday !

 

[BuzzH]

I can promise you that my broker can’t wait to bring all the staff back to the office. I’m personally and everyone I know can’t wait to be going out to eat in our favorite crowded restaurants. I think almost all of America will go back to as close to the old normal as they can just as fast as they can. I for one am glad we’re not a nation of cowards hiding from the boogie man.
I’ll also predict that the .gov experts who hyped the end of the world plague will have lost much credibility and when a real super bug comes people won’t believe them.
This is the reality in the social circles I run in. Three to five deaths of people with nine toes already in the grave per thousand is not justification for wrecking the economy and millions of Americans financial future. I’m now going back out to the pool with thirtyish friends and enjoying Sunday funday !

Doing business differently, smartly, and more efficiently is being a nation of cowards hiding from the boogieman?

Wow, reading a lot that isn't there buddy.

Things are going to change, whether you like or not, and whether or not coronavirus ever happened.

Not everyone lives in the stone age.

 

[Trevor73402]

Tell ya what....instead of arguing about it, lets just watch what happens. As @Shrek just stated above, people are more than eager to return to normal. Many already have started......As with all things, people are never going to agree on everything. As is the case here. The only thing I can say is that it is now a FACT that people are returning to the old normal as can be seen right now in many states. You other folks saying its never going to be the same are merely speculating at this point.

 

[Billinsd]

Things are going to change, whether you like or not, and whether or not coronavirus ever happened.

Tons of things have already changed? Uber, Amazon's own delivery, are ones I really enjoy. It brings competition.

 

[slatebuilder]

A world with no automobiles and essential items delivered to your door used to be tinfoil hat territory. “The government will supply housing, essentials, and entertainment” has gone from conspiracy theory to a widely accepted main stream solution.

A few questions and comments.

There are parts to the economy that are not conducive to doing from home. Do we farm those parts out or sub it out to China or some other place? Just not do it anymore, brush it aside as non essential? Do we simply create a society where those are no longer needed? What might that look like for our society?

During a zoom meeting Friday my school district discussed currently available technology options to remotely and electronically oversee, enforce, and otherwise keep an eye on students. Wow oppressive and abusive come to mind. I thought this was only conspiracy theory stuff, I had no idea that it was legit and being used. It is also being applied to employees in industry. We always joked about thought police, it’s not a joke anymore.

100% online/cyber education works fantastic for some students and in some cases opens doors and presents opportunities. There are many more students who it does not work for. A good many folks pushing cyber/online schooling agendas like to cite research, data, and science citing the effectiveness of online education, while many of the facts they present are 100% correct those facts do not reveal the whole story. For every study citing the effectiveness of cyber, there is also a study citing lack of effectiveness with good facts, science, data, and research to back it up, facts that are 100% correct. Basically both are tools to educating students, both should be used in the appropriate instances. Some content areas do not lend themselves well to being taught online. Gym, art, certain math, music, science, tech, the theater arts are a few areas. These specialty areas often support the “hands on” industries we depend on. Nurses, ex-ray techs, dental hygienists, plumbers, welders, pipe fitters, draftsmen, carpenters, construction workers, photographers, film people, butchers and meat cutters, HVAC, engineering technicians etc, the list could go on. Many areas in which practical hands on practice and experience are the best educational practices. Or are we simply going to find ways to gradually brand these types of jobs and industries as non essential thus eliminating them and the educational need?

There are a good many folks taking notes and making observations on our current situation. Moving forward there will be changes. Essential, expendable, deplorable seem to be synonymous now.

 

[Laramie]

The old cliche will likely be true... The answer will likely be somewhere in the middle. Some people will be afraid for years while others will charge forward like nothing happened. Some business will change but some will remain the same. I know my business is changing considerably as we were forced to learn how to service customers through video calls. Turns out it is just as effective and saves us massive amounts of money in flights and employee time.