What are your thoughts on the Kung Flu?

[Billinsd]

I'll also add, be careful about "news" stories and articles. There are stories all over about single cases of young healthy people contracting the disease and dying.

My good buddy is a physician and I often complain to him how incredibly imprecise medicine is, especially compared to engineering. He told me things are complicated and usually not straight forward. My kids pediatrician told me he "practices" medicine. Bill

 

[Billinsd]

Discovered or developed?

We will probably never know for sure.

 

[THBZN]

Your attempt at sarcasm is probably closer to truth than what you dare to admit. Trump has made many mistakes, but so has every other president. It is very obvious that the left wing media DOES attack the man round the clock, hence his rude counterattacks. They deserve it. They care little to zero about the common people, they just want to follow their own agenda.
It is also true that the right wing media supports Trump and takes things the other way. But at least they aren't digging up old statements and applying them to today.

Just some food for thought.
A new flu hits after the end of flu season (there's no rampant spread and school is over). An existing vaccine works against the virus, and is available in large quantities within 8 months. But over 12,000 people die in the US. 1/3 of people over 65 had antibodies from a similar strain from years before, so up to 80% of deaths are people YOUNGER than 65. Oved 1,200 CHILDREN died from H1N1, many of them WITHOUT preexisting health issues.

Obama declared a national health emergency with 20 cases in the US. He declared a national emergency 6 months later after 1,000+ deaths.
7.65 billion was directed to help with the pandemic. Nothing was shut down.

Trump declared a national health emergency with 6 cases in the US. He declared a national emergency one month later with 2 deaths in the US. An $8 billion bill was passed followed by $100 billion. After that came a package for $2.2 TRILLION. Trump shut down travel to China, while the media blamed him as "racist". He also deployed the Defense Production Act. Then he stopped international travel, and shut down the US.

Yet somehow, the Obama administration handled H1N1 perfectly, but Trump failed miserably and didn't do enough and what he did do was too late.

Any of y'all care to explain this paradox to us?

Perhaps blueyceman or THBZN or some of y'all other Trump haters? It's a bit confusing to me.
WARNING: I take silence as an admission to being stomped or just too embarrassed.
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WARNING....No, not embarrassed or any "stomping". It is called a discussion. They are an important part of the equation.

We will agree to disagree. As stated by others, this thread has run its course and has become more than a bit worn.

Everyone stay safe and sane.

 

[Fatcamp]

Here is a news article from the local paper detailing the accounts of a retired orthopaedic surgeon who has been battling COVID19. She has tested NEGATIVE on two separate occasions for the virus, yet doctors at Vanderbilt are convinced she is fighting COVID19. The doctors at this medical center stated one patient finally received a positive COVID19 designation on the fourth test. In the experience of this Vanderbilt Medical Center, 30-50% of negative COVID19 tests they see are false negatives - they're actually positive. If some of these people end up dead in the ICU, and tested three times negative for COVID despite showing all the classic symptoms, you really think they shouldn't be classified in some way as a COVID-related death? Science has to factor these cases in. More accurate testing would also be a great help.

View attachment 172175

Trump's fault.

 

[blueyceman]

Trump's fault.

Wow, insightful contribution

 

[Billinsd]

I heard somewhere that woton has a bio weapons research facility that was quarantined. Then read some research about programs to alter the bat virus so it could infect humans back around 2015. I guess there is all kinds of bio weapon research going on all across the world? If you can transmit for 2 weeks before you show signs of the infection it would be very hard to contain anywhere.....anyone have any accurate info?

Back to the future https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1185371

 

[S.Clancy]

China had the first case in Dec, that we know of.

I read a journal that suggested ( via RNA analysis) that patient 0 was likely in mid November. I don't know exactly how they determine that, I'll look for the actual paper, I can't remember now, damn brain.

 

[Shrek]

I realize this is a depressing thought but has anyone thought about what might happen to our favorite hunting brands? KUIU, Sitka, FL, Kodiak Canvas and many others have all gambled on the manufacturing in China bit. There's no way their 2020 lines will be coming out on time with all of this going on right? Makes me wonder if some of them won't survive.

I already noticed that Sitka pulled their regular LeoAdventures discount and are doing everything through their pro program now. It wouldn't surprise me to see more drastic cuts in the next few months. I think the big manufacturers in China like the steel industry are already back and running but many of the smaller companies are still shut down or running on fumes at this point.

Suits me fine if they go tits up. They made their beds now they can lay in them. If they go bankrupt the brands and designs will be auctioned off and someone else will fill the market. Maybe they’ll invest in US manufacturing. I had most of my hunting clothes stolen out of my truck last night so I’d be happy to have the option to buy technical clothing from a US maker. As long as cheaper Chinese product crowds the market there will never be any meaningful US made options.

 

[jmez]

A lot of articles are saying the first known case was Nov 17. None are verified. They never will be coming out of China.

 

[conley417]

A lot of articles are saying the first known case was Nov 17. None are verified. They never will be coming out of China.

I heard it came over on the Mayflower

 

[jmez]

Stanford is currently doing a study to see if this may have been in the Bay Area since late fall. I don't think it has but we'll know within a couple of weeks.

Bay Area Study

 

[jmez]

Also a lot of the stories lately about the virus coming out of one of the labs in Wuhan. Certainly possible but all speculation at this point. Have to watch the wording the news agencies are using regarding that possibility.

Originating in and manufactured/altered in are two completely different things. Originated in would mean that is where the first case came from, that does not mean the virus was built, engineered or intentionally altered in the lab. A worker could have gotten the virus through a break in protocol and therefore the virus originated in the lab.

I highly doubt it will be proven even if that is what happened. All information regarding that will have already been destroyed and in China, anyone with first hand knowledge other than the highest ranking communist officials, will have disappeared.

 

[Shrek]

I can say that the economic impact is really starting to hit the middle class and upper middle class and it is definitely adjusting some attitudes. My mother who is a raging far left liberal suffering from a severe case of TDS had a whole different attitude yesterday evening on the phone. She’s a retired Nurse Practitioner and Attorney. My step sister is a nurse practitioner and her husband is a radiology technician running MRI machines. They’re now both laid off and many of their friends are too. Attorneys, doctors , nurses , and all sorts of professionals are starting to feel the impact of the shutdown. Suddenly they’re not all so worried about the Chinese virus and TDS. Suddenly they’re worried about mortgages and when the economy is going to open back up. Funny , when your neighbor loses their job it’s a recession but when you lose your job it’s a depression. A lot of people who were all for shutting everything down and blaming Trump are now all about opening things up and Trump is right to talk about it.

 

[S.Clancy]

Also a lot of the stories lately about the virus coming out of one of the labs in Wuhan. Certainly possible but all speculation at this point. Have to watch the wording the news agencies are using regarding that possibility.

Originating in and manufactured/altered in are two completely different things. Originated in would mean that is where the first case came from, that does not mean the virus was built, engineered or intentionally altered in the lab. A worker could have gotten the virus through a break in protocol and therefore the virus originated in the lab.

I highly doubt it will be proven even if that is what happened. All information regarding that will have already been destroyed and in China, anyone with first hand knowledge other than the highest ranking communist officials, will have disappeared.

Yea, most likely scenario IF it came out of there is accidental. I thought the WHO had access to all those sorts of facilities, so genetic work could prove/disprove.

 

[jmez]

China isn't releasing the early strains of the virus. Even with the WHO, they will have access to what China decides.

 

[Shrek]

Yea, most likely scenario IF it came out of there is accidental. I thought the WHO had access to all those sorts of facilities, so genetic work could prove/disprove.

The WHO was and is helping the Chinese cover up the source. The Chinese may or may not have been developing biological weapons and it may never be known exactly how this virus came about but there’s no doubt about how it was intentionally allowed to spread around the world. While China was locking down internal travel from Wuhan they were lying to the world that there wasn’t human to human transmission and allowing international travel in and out of Wuhan. The Chinese are responsible for the world wide pandemic 100%.

 

[jmez]

I think it has been pretty well established that this isn't a virus that has been altered in a lab. Everyone outside of China that has looked at it is in agreement that it is a field strain.

China may have been trying to cover it up and keep it in house. I wouldn't make the leap that they were trying to intentionally spread the virus outside their borders.

 

[Shrek]

I think it has been pretty well established that this isn't a virus that has been altered in a lab. Everyone outside of China that has looked at it is in agreement that it is a field strain.

China may have been trying to cover it up and keep it in house. I wouldn't make the leap that they were trying to intentionally spread the virus outside their borders.

When you lock down internal travel to fight a disease but lie to the world about the contagiousness of that disease and allow external travel that’s as intentionally evil as it gets.

 

[Fatcamp]

Wow, insightful contribution

LOL. Ironic post is ironic.

 

[Sccritterkiller]

I think it has been pretty well established that this isn't a virus that has been altered in a lab. Everyone outside of China that has looked at it is in agreement that it is a field strain.

China may have been trying to cover it up and keep it in house. I wouldn't make the leap that they were trying to intentionally spread the virus outside their borders.

Ok so how did it get from the bat cave if was first discovered in, a completely different providence than Whuhan, to Whuhan with out any inflections along the way?

I dont they created it but lack of safety protocols at WIR is well documented. WIR has been researching cornaviruses for at least 10 yrs...