What are your thoughts on the Kung Flu?

[Dustin the wind]

On a happier note, W.H.O. Got their U.S. funding pulled for being negligent but beyond that; a propaganda arm of China, like certain individuals in this thread. What!?!?

 

[Dustin the wind]

How did this spread so quick....

What a F-ing mystery.....

Bill De Blasio Feb 2nd:

“People should be very clear about what this disease is and what it isn’t, and New Yorkers, I always say, are not intimidated easily. New Yorkers should go about our lives, continue doing what we do. … We understand some things about this disease. As I said, others are still unclear. But what is clear is the only way you get it is with substantial contact with someone who already has it. You don’t get it from a surface. You don’t get it from glancing or very temporary contact based on what we know now.”

 

[Jauwater]

Haha, I take that as a compliment....

Anyway, I found the article, let's dive into it. Please take the time to read through the bulk text of this NYT article. I've paraphrased each section of the article for those who prefer to skim:

"New York City, already a world epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak, sharply increased its death toll by more than 3,700 victims on Tuesday, after officials said they were now including people who had never tested positive for the virus but were presumed to have died of it. The new figures, released by the city’s Health Department, drove up the number of people killed in New York City to more than 10,000, and appeared to increase the overall United States death count by 17 percent to more than 26,000."
.......
"Three thousand more people died in New York City between March 11 and April 13 than would have been expected during the same time period in an ordinary year, Dr. Oxiris Barbot, the commissioner of the city Health Department, said in an interview. While these so-called excess deaths were not explicitly linked to the virus, they might not have happened had the outbreak not occurred, in part because it overwhelmed the normal health care system."

SUMMARY: Dr. Oxiris Barbot, commissioner of the city Health Department believes 'excess deaths' have happened due to the overwhelemed resources of the healthcare system in NYC during the outbreak.
......
"The revised death toll renewed focus on shortcomings in testing that have hamstrung city and state officials since the beginning of the outbreak. A limited number of tests have been available, and until now, only deaths where a person had tested positive were officially counted among those killed by the virus in New York. But for weeks, the Health Department also had been recording additional deaths tied to the virus, according to two people briefed on the matter. Those cases involved people who were presumed to have been infected because of their symptoms and medical history."

SUMMARY: Until today, NY was only reporting deaths with positive COVID19 confirmations. However, the health department has been keeping track of 'presumptive positive' cases due to symptoms and medical history, and the limited number of COVID19 tests available.
......
"They were not included in the counts given publicly by Mayor Bill de Blasio because no tests had confirmed that the victims had the disease, Covid-19. Mr. de Blasio decided, after another round of briefings over the weekend, to release the presumptive cases, the people said. Most of the added deaths took place in hospitals, according to the data. Others occurred in nursing homes or other long-term care facilities and in residences."

SUMMARY: Mayor de Blasio decided after briefings over the weekend to include presumptive positive cases in the death toll, which mostly occurred in hospitals, nursing homes, and other long-term care facilities.
.......
"The C.D.C., in its guidance to local governments, has recommended that cases of “assumed” coronavirus infection be noted on death certificates since before New York City recorded its first death on March 14."

SUMMARY: Your very own federal, Trump-backed CDC ENCOURAGES cases of 'assumed' COVID19 infection be noted on death certificates, even before NYC recorded its first death.
........
"
While the city has been uniquely overwhelmed by cases and deaths, the newly released data suggested that the toll elsewhere in the nation and the world may be much higher than reported.
“This is quite portentous,” said Andrew Noymer, associate professor of public health at the University of California, Irvine. He said the revised New York figures provided “a sobering reality that confirmed and probable Covid-19 deaths exceed deaths from all other causes.”

SUMMARY: Confirmed and presumptive-positive COVID19 deaths exceed deaths from all other causes.

.......
"Public health officials say that counting the dead from a pandemic disease like Covid-19 presents difficulties because many of those who die are older or suffering from other serious health conditions. And the full effects of the outbreak on mortality in New York City, and around the country, could take many more months to study and understand. Epidemiologists who study such events said a complete account would include an analysis of the number of the excess deaths. Such an analysis can be “very hard to do” as an event is unfolding, said Sabrina McCormick, an associate professor of environmental and occupational health at George Washington University, who has studied excess deaths in heat waves. “This virus is moving so fast,” she said. But, she added, an analysis of excess deaths is “the simplest and most straightforward way of measuring how many people have died from an extreme event” and can offer a more accurate accounting of the actual impact than the daily death counts provided by officials."

SUMMARY: Counting the dead from a pandemic is hard to do, especially in the midst of the pandemic, because many who die are older and/or have serious health issues. A complete post-mortem analysis will be necessary to get the most accurate count.

Now WV Mountaineer - you said, "Am I the only person here that is aware that the Mayor of NY city decided the death count was low and added an additional 3500 deaths to the total count. Get this. Because he "suspected" that many more people had died from covid 19. No tests. No data. No confirmation. Just 3500 more people because they died during the epidemic. Unbelievable. SMDH".

In actuality, he added 3500 deaths to the count because his medical briefing team made him aware of many more presumptive positive cases of individuals in nursing homes, hospitals, etc. who had many of the SYMPTOMS of COVID19 but either died before they could be tested, and/or had no access to the test. So there is DATA. Just not the test itself. It is actually quite believable, and may be happening in more places than NYC.

Clearly, COVID19 prefers to take the lives of older, immune compromised, sometimes obese individuals. But, it also likes to occasionally hospitalize and sometimes kill otherwise perfectly healthy (generally younger) people.

So if 75 year old Aunt Jane with emphysema catches COVID19 and dies of it in her nursing home after she's had a recorded fever of 103, a brutal cough, and trouble breathing, but never got the test because she wasn't "sick enough", essentially you're saying that her death shouldn't be counted as COVID19 because it'll make some greedy politician look bad? Or that counting her death in the stats over-inflates how bad the virus is?
Yikes.

I'm all for people sharing opinion but, this all seems like alot of "copy & pasting" to confuse people, of which your trying to make a point. Which maybe you are but honestly by the time I made it to the end, I was confused about what point your making. As I'd assume, as were other folks. Confused that is.

Anywho...moving on....

I'm am curious about the "frontline" workers. The frontliners that I know here dont speak of it being all that much different around my area in NC. I'm hearing reports that most hospitals in the US are well under capacity. I'm hearing reports that medical workers are being laid off in different areas of the US. But, on this site, seems we have nurses everywhere, being lucky to make it off their shift with their life? Maybe all the nurses being spoke of here are located in hot spots? Hmm, what are the chances? Maybe that's why people are taking "frontline" workers opinion with a grain of salt. Cause I too know plenty of them and, I dont hear any of this. GF is a nurse anesthetists, her two best friends, Intensive Care Nurse, and a Paramedic. So see, a bunch of us know medical people, and their not all saying the same thing. But yea, go ahead and point a finger at us for questioning the frontliners, while frontliners are questioning frontliners.

I still find the death toll numbers and, peoples reaction to it surprising. People are dieing and just being added to the death toll regardless of underlying issues, regardless if their already on their death bed ready to die any hour from something else, regardless if they've been tested, but yet people still want to debate it being under reported. These numbers are so inaccurate, seriously think, why even report it? Logically it doesnt make sense. All it's doing is causing fear. It's amazing how so many people lack the ability to think through information laid out in front of them, but have no problem just repeating things they've heard, with no critical thinking of the information given. I see it everyday in the work field. Now we see it here, nearly daily.

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[durangobrad]

I'm all for people sharing opinion but, this all seems like alot of "copy & pasting" to confuse people, of which your trying to make a point. Which maybe you are but honestly by the time I made it to the end, I was confused about what point your making. As I'd assume, as were other folks. Confused that is.

Anywho...moving on....

I'm am curious about the "frontline" workers. The frontliners that I know here dont speak of it being all that much different around my area in NC. I'm hearing reports that most hospitals in the US are well under capacity. I'm hearing reports that medical workers are being laid off in different areas of the US. But, on this site, seems we have nurses everywhere, being lucky to make it off their shift with their life? Maybe all the nurses being spoke of here are located in hot spots? Hmm, what are the chances? Maybe that's why people are taking "frontline" workers opinion with a grain of salt. Cause I too know plenty of them and, I dont hear any of this. GF is a nurse anesthetists, her two best friends, Intensive Care Nurse, and a Paramedic. So see, a bunch of us know medical people, and their not all saying the same thing. But yea, go ahead and point a finger at us for questioning the frontliners, while frontliners are questioning frontliners.

I still find the death toll numbers and, peoples reaction to it surprising. People are dieing and just being added to the death toll regardless of underlying issues, regardless if their already on their death bed ready to die any hour from something else, regardless if they've been tested, but yet people still want to debate it being under reported. These numbers are so inaccurate, seriously think, why even report it? Logically it doesnt make sense. All it's doing is causing fear. It's amazing how so many people lack the ability to think through information laid out in front of them, but have no problem just repeating things they've heard, with no critical thinking of the information given. I see it everyday in the work field. Now we see it here, nearly daily.

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Your suggesting that we take a hint from Chinas method of reporting?

Let's make sure to keep the numbers low, so people don't get scared?

Sent from my F1 using Tapatalk

 

[Jauwater]

Your suggesting that we take a hint from Chinas method of reporting?

Let's make sure to keep the numbers low, so people don't get scared?

Sent from my F1 using Tapatalk

This is exactly what I'm talking about, right here. Cant see the light, so he makes his own light.

I'm interested in accurate numbers or no numbers. If you cant accurately equate something and, then you go to adding other unconfirmed numbers to it, and then report it a gazillion times a day, makes it seem like there is a motive behind it. Over reporting, under reporting, there is a reason for it. Why purposely report on something using unconfirmed numbers, that favor a higher death rate? What does it achieve? Whats wrong with wanting accuracy? I'm forced to apply it by Trade every day of my life. Actually, I could be ticketed and, fined if I didnt. Even if I was manipulating "accuracy" for the "greater good", itd still be bad on me. We deserve at least to be able to be given creditable information to make our own minds up. I know, I know, China gave wrong info, but we are now giving wrong info, so....wth?

Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Haha, I take that as a compliment....

Anyway, I found the article, let's dive into it. Please take the time to read through the bulk text of this NYT article. I've paraphrased each section of the article for those who prefer to skim:

"New York City, already a world epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak, sharply increased its death toll by more than 3,700 victims on Tuesday, after officials said they were now including people who had never tested positive for the virus but were presumed to have died of it. The new figures, released by the city’s Health Department, drove up the number of people killed in New York City to more than 10,000, and appeared to increase the overall United States death count by 17 percent to more than 26,000."
.......
"Three thousand more people died in New York City between March 11 and April 13 than would have been expected during the same time period in an ordinary year, Dr. Oxiris Barbot, the commissioner of the city Health Department, said in an interview. While these so-called excess deaths were not explicitly linked to the virus, they might not have happened had the outbreak not occurred, in part because it overwhelmed the normal health care system."

SUMMARY: Dr. Oxiris Barbot, commissioner of the city Health Department believes 'excess deaths' have happened due to the overwhelemed resources of the healthcare system in NYC during the outbreak.
......
"The revised death toll renewed focus on shortcomings in testing that have hamstrung city and state officials since the beginning of the outbreak. A limited number of tests have been available, and until now, only deaths where a person had tested positive were officially counted among those killed by the virus in New York. But for weeks, the Health Department also had been recording additional deaths tied to the virus, according to two people briefed on the matter. Those cases involved people who were presumed to have been infected because of their symptoms and medical history."

SUMMARY: Until today, NY was only reporting deaths with positive COVID19 confirmations. However, the health department has been keeping track of 'presumptive positive' cases due to symptoms and medical history, and the limited number of COVID19 tests available.
......
"They were not included in the counts given publicly by Mayor Bill de Blasio because no tests had confirmed that the victims had the disease, Covid-19. Mr. de Blasio decided, after another round of briefings over the weekend, to release the presumptive cases, the people said. Most of the added deaths took place in hospitals, according to the data. Others occurred in nursing homes or other long-term care facilities and in residences."

SUMMARY: Mayor de Blasio decided after briefings over the weekend to include presumptive positive cases in the death toll, which mostly occurred in hospitals, nursing homes, and other long-term care facilities.
.......
"The C.D.C., in its guidance to local governments, has recommended that cases of “assumed” coronavirus infection be noted on death certificates since before New York City recorded its first death on March 14."

SUMMARY: Your very own federal, Trump-backed CDC ENCOURAGES cases of 'assumed' COVID19 infection be noted on death certificates, even before NYC recorded its first death.
........
"
While the city has been uniquely overwhelmed by cases and deaths, the newly released data suggested that the toll elsewhere in the nation and the world may be much higher than reported.
“This is quite portentous,” said Andrew Noymer, associate professor of public health at the University of California, Irvine. He said the revised New York figures provided “a sobering reality that confirmed and probable Covid-19 deaths exceed deaths from all other causes.”

SUMMARY: Confirmed and presumptive-positive COVID19 deaths exceed deaths from all other causes.

.......
"Public health officials say that counting the dead from a pandemic disease like Covid-19 presents difficulties because many of those who die are older or suffering from other serious health conditions. And the full effects of the outbreak on mortality in New York City, and around the country, could take many more months to study and understand. Epidemiologists who study such events said a complete account would include an analysis of the number of the excess deaths. Such an analysis can be “very hard to do” as an event is unfolding, said Sabrina McCormick, an associate professor of environmental and occupational health at George Washington University, who has studied excess deaths in heat waves. “This virus is moving so fast,” she said. But, she added, an analysis of excess deaths is “the simplest and most straightforward way of measuring how many people have died from an extreme event” and can offer a more accurate accounting of the actual impact than the daily death counts provided by officials."

SUMMARY: Counting the dead from a pandemic is hard to do, especially in the midst of the pandemic, because many who die are older and/or have serious health issues. A complete post-mortem analysis will be necessary to get the most accurate count.

Now WV Mountaineer - you said, "Am I the only person here that is aware that the Mayor of NY city decided the death count was low and added an additional 3500 deaths to the total count. Get this. Because he "suspected" that many more people had died from covid 19. No tests. No data. No confirmation. Just 3500 more people because they died during the epidemic. Unbelievable. SMDH".

In actuality, he added 3500 deaths to the count because his medical briefing team made him aware of many more presumptive positive cases of individuals in nursing homes, hospitals, etc. who had many of the SYMPTOMS of COVID19 but either died before they could be tested, and/or had no access to the test. So there is DATA. Just not the test itself. It is actually quite believable, and may be happening in more places than NYC.

Clearly, COVID19 prefers to take the lives of older, immune compromised, sometimes obese individuals. But, it also likes to occasionally hospitalize and sometimes kill otherwise perfectly healthy (generally younger) people.

So if 75 year old Aunt Jane with emphysema catches COVID19 and dies of it in her nursing home after she's had a recorded fever of 103, a brutal cough, and trouble breathing, but never got the test because she wasn't "sick enough", essentially you're saying that her death shouldn't be counted as COVID19 because it'll make some greedy politician look bad? Or that counting her death in the stats over-inflates how bad the virus is?
Yikes.

Boy, you dove right into that. Head first 4 beers in. What was your point?

 

[durangobrad]

This is exactly what I'm talking about, right here. Cant see the light, so he makes his own light.

I'm interested in accurate numbers or no numbers. If you cant accurately equate something and, then you go to adding other unconfirmed numbers to it, and then report it a gazillion times a day, makes it seem like there is a motive behind it. Over reporting, under reporting, there is a reason for it. Why purposely report on something using unconfirmed numbers, that favor a higher death rate? What does it achieve? Whats wrong with wanting accuracy? I'm forced to apply it by Trade every day of my life. Actually, I could be ticketed and, fined if I didnt. Even if I was manipulating "accuracy" for the "greater good", itd still be bad on me. We deserve at least to be able to be given creditable information to make our own minds up. I know, I know, China gave wrong info, but we are now giving wrong info, so....wth?

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You think we shouldn't report any numbers at all?

I think weve seen good examples of underreporting and over. So there's some degree of confidence. the numbers will hopefully get better in the future. You have to work with what you've got in a situation like this. Had we been more prepared and had more testing available it would be more accurate. But saying because its not 100% we should have nothing reported....

This just in, USA : zero covid-19 deaths.

The people out there risking their lives to deal with patients and that ultimately have to make the determination of cause of death, want the numbers to be accurate, but can't always be certain, so they have to make an educated guess.

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[Jauwater]

You think we shouldn't report any numbers at all?

I think weve seen good examples of underreporting and over. So there's some degree of confidence. the numbers will hopefully get better in the future. You have to work with what you've got in a situation like this. Had we been more prepared and had more testing available it would be more accurate. But saying because its not 100% we should have nothing reported....

This just in, USA : zero covid-19 deaths.

The people out there risking their lives to deal with patients and that ultimately have to make the determination of cause of death, want the numbers to be accurate, but can't always be certain, so they have to make an educated guess.

Sent from my F1 using Tapatalk

I appreciate the dialogue but, we aren't changing any opinions at this point. And we could literally just go back and forth for days. We know where each other stand. I respect your opinion



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[ODB]

Spent two weeks reading the posts on this thread.

I think we’re gonna find out this virus escaped.........not from a wet market either.

Yes, the Post and Forbes are reporting this.

Why the world will let a communist regime that released this further exist will be the real question.

 

[NDGuy]

Why the world will let a communist regime that released this further exist will be the real question.

Because a lot of world's businesses make billions off dollars using their cheap labor. Oh and nukes..

Not more complicated than that.

 

[Dos Perros]

Am I the only person here that is aware that the Mayor of NY city decided the death count was low and added an additional 3500 deaths to the total count. Get this. Because he "suspected" that many more people had died from covid 19. No tests. No data. No confirmation. Just 3500 more people because they died during the epidemic. Unbelievable. SMDH

Is it too much to ask to link stuff like this?

 

[Jauwater]

Virus Is Costing N.Y.C. Billions (Published 2020)

Mayor de Blasio said the city faces a revenue shortfall of up to $10 billion.

www.nytimes.com

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[ODB]

Because a lot of world's businesses make billions off dollars using their cheap labor. Oh and nukes..

Not more complicated than that.

If you settle for what you get, you get what you deserve.

China needs the world more than the world needs them. Which is why China would never use nukes. Not even Russia used nukes.


There is nothing that China does that cannot be done elsewhere. China builds ghost cities to keep people busy. The largest migration of humans from the hills of China to the manufacturing centers has created a system that fully relies on the test of the world to feed them busy work.

The world will survive with higher labor costs, China won’t survive if companies diversified, which, by the way, will be thr corporate buzz-word over the next few years as companies start taking eggs out of the China basket.

 

[NDGuy]

There is nothing that China does that cannot be done elsewhere.

Correct and we will see a shift but not like it's happening overnight.

I'm excited to see more manufacturing shift elsewhere and see more products made here.

 

[ODB]

Virus Is Costing N.Y.C. Billions (Published 2020)

Mayor de Blasio said the city faces a revenue shortfall of up to $10 billion.

www.nytimes.com

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This is happening in other places too. Supposedly hospitals are reimbursed for CV+ pts, but I have not seen 100% confirmation of that.

 

[blueyceman]

I'm all for people sharing opinion but, this all seems like alot of "copy & pasting" to confuse people, of which your trying to make a point. Which maybe you are but honestly by the time I made it to the end, I was confused about what point your making. As I'd assume, as were other folks. Confused that is.

Anywho...moving on....

I'm am curious about the "frontline" workers. The frontliners that I know here dont speak of it being all that much different around my area in NC. I'm hearing reports that most hospitals in the US are well under capacity. I'm hearing reports that medical workers are being laid off in different areas of the US. But, on this site, seems we have nurses everywhere, being lucky to make it off their shift with their life? Maybe all the nurses being spoke of here are located in hot spots? Hmm, what are the chances? Maybe that's why people are taking "frontline" workers opinion with a grain of salt. Cause I too know plenty of them and, I dont hear any of this. GF is a nurse anesthetists, her two best friends, Intensive Care Nurse, and a Paramedic. So see, a bunch of us know medical people, and their not all saying the same thing. But yea, go ahead and point a finger at us for questioning the frontliners, while frontliners are questioning frontliners.

I still find the death toll numbers and, peoples reaction to it surprising. People are dieing and just being added to the death toll regardless of underlying issues, regardless if their already on their death bed ready to die any hour from something else, regardless if they've been tested, but yet people still want to debate it being under reported. These numbers are so inaccurate, seriously think, why even report it? Logically it doesnt make sense. All it's doing is causing fear. It's amazing how so many people lack the ability to think through information laid out in front of them, but have no problem just repeating things they've heard, with no critical thinking of the information given. I see it everyday in the work field. Now we see it here, nearly daily.

Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk

Thanks for at least reading the article I pasted. My point was that the article gave very good reasons as to why the death toll was increased due to presumptive positives, clearly WV Mountaineer took the same article and put a different spin on it. With lack of available testing known to be a huge issue in America, they're going to have to find a way to include people who died who never had access to a test....i.e. not everything is some sort of conspiracy..

 

[Btaylor]

Thanks for at least reading the article I pasted. My point was that the article gave very good reasons as to why the death toll was increased due to presumptive positives, clearly WV Mountaineer took the same article and put a different spin on it. With lack of available testing known to be a huge issue in America, they're going to have to find a way to include people who died who never had access to a test....i.e. not everything is some sort of conspiracy..

If they are going to arbitrarily count deaths as covid, they should also count those same deaths as related to the underlying health conditions if they exist like COPD or any other health condition known to shorten a patients life expectancy. What they are doing is the same as a bus driver sneezing right before he runs his bus full of folks off a bridge and they claim all the casualties as covid.

 

[blueyceman]

If they are going to arbitrarily count deaths as covid, they should also count those same deaths as related to the underlying health conditions if they exist like COPD or any other health condition known to shorten a patients life expectancy. What they are doing is the same as a bus driver sneezing right before he runs his bus full of folks off a bridge and they claim all the casualties as covid.

Who is to say they aren't attributing underlying cause of death to pre-existing conditions as well as COVID? This isn't something that's happened in the US in over 100 years so they are faced with an unprecedented amount of work to do to properly classify death in this time period, which as that article stated is quite difficult to accurately do especially in the midst of the pandemic. It'll take time to get the most accurate counts of deaths with COVID positives, 'excess deaths' related to complications to inadequate healthcare facilities etc., and presumptive positive deaths. I don't claim to be any expert on how this gets classified, I'm just saying it'll take time to sort it all out accurately.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Is it too much to ask to link stuff like this?

I sure hope you are capable of verifying this for yourself. For goodness sakes man, this isn’t a conspiracy concept.

 

[Dos Perros]

I sure hope you are capable of verifying this for yourself. For goodness sakes man, this isn’t a conspiracy concept.

I'm just saying it's helpful. Not all of the posters here are credible. I honestly lump you all together, so it's not like I mentally keep track of people I believe to be credible or not. A link is helpful so people can quickly see for themselves who is saying what and further understand context. If you don't want to that's fine.