What a great day for me and i would expect others!

[airlocksniffer]

Another diversion but oh well. All three of our national intelligence agencies think Russia tried to or did influence our election to get Trump elected. Of course he doesn't believe them. Can't help but think that if Clinton was elected and our intelligence agencies came to the same conclusion Trump voters would be howling for blood. Lock her up, treason, etc. Oh yeah, lock her up. Did Trump say he was going to do that?

 

[backcountry_hunter]

Exactly. Strange that when a plank of the Republican party is to transfer (sell) federal lands and many on a backcountry hunting forum think that's no big deal. At least Jr hunts.

Well I don't neccessarily see it as no big deal but I do see both sides.... My guess is they're looking at the payouts for things like wildfires and seeing the return on things like logging, mining or camping and the numbers aren't adding up. The reality is owning public lands is a money loser, in capitalist world you would either dump them or do something different. Obviously being public it's not a capitalist arena but the fact still remains they cost A TON of $$ to opertate.... plain and simple. Thankfully DJT and Zinke seem committed to holding on to them and paying despite them costing a pile of money.

 

[ohhiitznik]

I think the position dictates that. I don't think people that have never served this country should be appointed to mil or defense positions.

I wouldn't of wanted my CO to never step foot in battle and now tell me what I should be doing.

Same goes for a foreman on a construction crew, you can have all the degrees you want in economics it won't make you build a house better if you've never picked up a hammer in your life.

The general job market also disagrees with you, I know dozens of people with high level degrees with no work, why? Because companies like experience.


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Ben carson does have experience.

The argument wasn't put forth as an if/or.

What if that foreman had a degree in architecture, construction management, and engineering, But even so, foreman is a hands on manual labor job, degrees don't help in that situation, not the best comparison.

Also, nothing can prepare anyone for these jobs. They are the only jobs of their type in the world. You can have all the experience as a marine, and a general, and its not the same as sec def. Same goes for HUD. You can organize communities, manage cities, even states, but the position of HUD is one of kind

 

[Hall256]

Another diversion but oh well. All three of our national intelligence agencies think Russia tried to or did influence our election to get Trump elected. Of course he doesn't believe them. Can't help but think that if Clinton was elected and our intelligence agencies came to the same conclusion Trump voters would be howling for blood. Lock her up, treason, etc. Oh yeah, lock her up. Did Trump say he was going to do that?

I have not actually been able to ask someone this that believes it, but how did Russia help him? The hacking was of personal emails that showed the level of deceit that Hillary was up to. There is NO evidence that Russia did anything to switch votes or tamper with results. So, yes did they hack Podesta's email, sure...did it do anything but give us a better insight in to a candidate...yep.

So my questions to you would be, do you wish you were never informed about the level of corruption that was taking place within the DNC?

 

[airlocksniffer]

I have not actually been able to ask someone this that believes it, but how did Russia help him? The hacking was of personal emails that showed the level of deceit that Hillary was up to. There is NO evidence that Russia did anything to switch votes or tamper with results. So, yes did they hack Podesta's email, sure...did it do anything but give us a better insight in to a candidate...yep.

So my questions to you would be, do you wish you were never informed about the level of corruption that was taking place within the DNC?

From what I understand it was selectively releasing stuff that would make the Democrats look bad although it's likely they have the same dirt on Republicans and are using it as leverage. You don't have to tamper with votes to influence an election. I agree with you though, I think the core of both parties is rotten (thanks Citizens United). Just not sure Trump will be able or willing to do anything about it.

But back to my original question, wouldn't Republicans be up in arms if it was surmised that Russia helped Clinton win the election?

 

[tipsntails7]

Ben carson does have experience.

The argument wasn't put forth as an if/or.

What if that foreman had a degree in architecture, construction management, and engineering, But even so, foreman is a hands on manual labor job, degrees don't help in that situation, not the best comparison.

Also, nothing can prepare anyone for these jobs. They are the only jobs of their type in the world. You can have all the experience as a marine, and a general, and its not the same as sec def. Same goes for HUD. You can organize communities, manage cities, even states, but the position of HUD is one of kind

I'm not disagreeing with what you say, only saying that intelligence isn't the sole factor in deciding someone's aptitude for the job. Degrees in random fields that have nothing to do with your job don't mean anything.

I don't pay my dentist to build a house, and I don't pay a construction company to perform surgery.

You can also take experience from certain fields into these jobs, even if you've never actually done the top job. Separating twins from each other gives Carson ZERO help when running HUD.

Just like being a teacher, then a principal, then a district administrator gives you experience and insight if your going to be appointed education secretary. That person is more experienced then a mechanic who works on big rigs....



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[IdahoElk]

But back to my original question, wouldn't Republicans be up in arms if it was surmised that Russia helped Clinton win the election?

At this point what difference does it make?

[video=youtube;btiOODtJ8Dk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btiOODtJ8Dk[/video]

 

[Hall256]

My issue with believing they have the same on him, is that was not what the IC found. When they investigated, they found evidence of Russia hacking key DNC official emails, we are not (the IC) as inept to not ensure the RNC was also not tampered/hacked. The only report that came out that Russia had evidence against DJT was a hoax created as a joke by a blogger (didnt stop CNN and MSNBC from running it as real news).

Oh, and you are spot on...if the shoe was on the other foot the Repubs would have been pissed. It is the level of cognitive dissonance that affects both parties. If it benefits us, it is the best thing in the world...if the same exact thing happens to us, then my god the outrage. Case in point, the liberals/democrats that cheered on the courage of Wikileaks when they leaked information against the Bush Admin, they are the same that are upset that Wikileaks published these emails.

My hope is that he does to something against this corruption (both parties)...he is not a career politician...so maybe that will count for something.

 

[airlocksniffer]

My hope is that he does to something against this corruption (both parties)...he is not a career politician...so maybe that will count for something.

My hope as well.

 

[backcountry_hunter]

I'm not disagreeing with what you say, only saying that intelligence isn't the sole factor in deciding someone's aptitude for the job. Degrees in random fields that have nothing to do with your job don't mean anything.

I don't pay my dentist to build a house, and I don't pay a construction company to perform surgery.

You can also take experience from certain fields into these jobs, even if you've never actually done the top job. Separating twins from each other gives Carson ZERO help when running HUD.

Just like being a teacher, then a principal, then a district administrator gives you experience and insight if your going to be appointed education secretary. That person is more experienced then a mechanic who works on big rigs....

Honestly after decades of hiring and firing I'll take the untrained, intelligent guy(or gal) with common sense and customer service over the highly educated and qualified person who'd job bounced for years. The trade can be taught.... I look far more at personality andf character nowadays than I do at experience. For years I hired based on qualifications and experience and got bit hard on a few occasions and rarely did it work out well.

My top 3 factors in determining a successful applicant for a job is (in no particular order):
common sense
intelligent
good with people

Usually if they have all 3 they're a shoe in. I can train them in the respective job.... that's peanuts in comparison. I have relatives with double PHD's and masters that are unemployed because they're lacking one or all of these. The truth is there are career type jobs across the country right now sitting vacant because candidates (in general) lack one or all of these. If you're unemployed but have the ability to work.... chances are you're missing the boat on at least one of these.

I've also found that if someone possesses these three traits that being a hard worker goes without saying.

 

[Hall256]

Honestly after decades of hiring and firing I'll take the untrained, intelligent guy(or gal) with common sense and customer service over the highly educated and qualified person who'd job bounced for years. The trade can be taught.... I look far more at personality andf character nowadays than I do at experience.

My top 3 factors in determining a successful applicant for a job is (in no particular order):
common sense
intelligent
good with people

Usually if they have all 3 they're a shoe in. I can train them in the respective job.... that's peanuts in comparison. I have relatives with double PHD's and masters that are unemployed because they're lacking one or all of these. The truth is there are career type jobs across the country right now sitting vacant because candidates (in general) lack one or all of these. If you're unemployed but have the ability to work.... chances are you're missing the boat on at least one of these.

I've also found that if someone possesses these three traits that being a hard worker goes without saying.

Case in point, everyone says that the state of our Education system is horrible, and we consistently trail behind other developed nations in academics...yet the previous Sec of Education have all been career educators. Should we continue on the same path and continue to pull people from the same system that is failing, or should a person with new experience come in. If that person has the traits you listed...then I think the answer should be a resounding YES.

Apply my comment to the HUD situation, and you will know my thoughts on Carson. He is a brilliant man, that was in the running to be President of the United States...if people believed in him enough and believed he had the aptitude/intelligence to run the country, then I think he is more than capable to run HUD.

 

[backcountry_hunter]

^^^^^You don't have to sell me on Carson..... going through the primaries I was hoping he'd be our next POTUS

 

[rodney482]

I didnt expect any debate on a hunting forum. Common sense is usually the norm.

So by your logic this thread should've never happened. It's a hunting forum after all. I mean you're only allowed to debate if it's hunting related? But this was in the general forum. He posted it. He had to have expected some debate.

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[tipsntails7]

Honestly after decades of hiring and firing I'll take the untrained, intelligent guy(or gal) with common sense and customer service over the highly educated and qualified person who'd job bounced for years. The trade can be taught.... I look far more at personality andf character nowadays than I do at experience. For years I hired based on qualifications and experience and got bit hard on a few occasions and rarely did it work out well.

My top 3 factors in determining a successful applicant for a job is (in no particular order):
common sense
intelligent
good with people

Usually if they have all 3 they're a shoe in. I can train them in the respective job.... that's peanuts in comparison. I have relatives with double PHD's and masters that are unemployed because they're lacking one or all of these. The truth is there are career type jobs across the country right now sitting vacant because candidates (in general) lack one or all of these. If you're unemployed but have the ability to work.... chances are you're missing the boat on at least one of these.

I've also found that if someone possesses these three traits that being a hard worker goes without saying.

Like I said it depends on the job. Why does a qualified and experienced person have to job bounce? Your just slanting factors in your arguments favor. A guy doesn't do a job for 20 years being an incompetent stooge. That's also 20 years of experience that you don't need to teach him.

I get that a lot of companies like to train people how they want, which is good, but every time I need to step away from my job to supervise a simple task by someone without experience it costs me time and the company even more money.

Either way I'm sure Carson will be fine.


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[JWP58]

At this point what difference does it make?

[video=youtube;btiOODtJ8Dk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btiOODtJ8Dk[/video]

Thats a damn good point

 

[JWP58]

Exactly. Strange that when a plank of the Republican party is to transfer (sell) federal lands and many on a backcountry hunting forum think that's no big deal. At least Jr hunts.

Most people aren't single issue voters. Wierd huh? Plus just as the libtards constantly remind everyone how Obama didn't take anyones guns, nobody has stolen public land yet...so libs chill out.

 

[tipsntails7]

Most people aren't single issue voters. Wierd huh? Plus just as the libtards constantly remind everyone how Obama didn't take anyones guns, nobody has stolen public land yet...so libs chill out.

Why the need for calling people libtards? What's the point?

Also obama's time is done, him taking guns is not a worry or an option anymore, "stealing" public lands is still an option.
Most guys in this forum are not Libs and yet they still care about public lands... weird right?

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[JWP58]

What does concern me is you have 30 million + fellow Americans who will lose coverage and the Congress has nothing to replace it with.

What concerns me is that 30 million fellow Americans are apparently so worthless they can't even take enough responsibility to look after themselves, let alone their family. People are responsible for their own well being, it is not the government or the collectives responsibility. The modern day leftwing liberal has bought into the notion that the government should provide everything they need from cradle to grave, personal responsibility is an evil concept to them.

 

[JWP58]

Also obama's time is done, him taking guns is not a worry or an option anymore, "stealing" public lands is still an option.
Most guys in this forum are not Libs and yet they still care about public lands... weird right?

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I enjoy throwing the left's straw man argument back in their face.

 

[gmajor]

Conservatives hunt. Liberals hunt. Both with guns. Both on public lands.

By all means have it out but let's try to be adults and and recognize the legislators who act in our best interests on both sides of the aisle. There are people with whom I disagree vehemently on a range of issues who I am also proud to stand beside when it comes to public lands.