Weight Training

[Coach Chris]

Starting Strength Novice Linear Progression as outlined in the book “Starting Strength."

I find linear progression to be less than optimal when there are competing energy demands or when someone is in a caloric deficit.

 

[mtwarden]

I think it's a very important component to mountain fitness (and overall fitness), but it comes behind aerobic conditioning, at least for the hunting I do. My typical week consists of 4-5 days of hiking/trail running (typically one long @ 12-20 miles and several shorter) with a lot of elevation gain.

Twice a week I strength train- I've somewhat bastardized Wendler's 5/3/1 doing squats/bench one day and deadlifts/overhead press the other; I supplement those priority lifts with pull-ups, lunges, dips, core, etc. I've also been adding an extra week (it's normally a four week cycle) of high volume lifting with the above lifts- 10/9/9/8..../2/1 on week four (@ ~ 70% of 1RM).

I still make good strides in the weight room and it seems to balance well with my aerobic training.

 

[Poser]

I find linear progression to be less than optimal when there are competing energy demands or when someone is in a caloric deficit.

Certainly. NLP is run with no supplemental Conditioning and lots of extra eating. If you’re adding WODs or in a caloric deficit, you’re not doing the program.

 

[Coach Chris]

Certainly. NLP is run with no supplemental Conditioning and lots of extra eating. If you’re adding WODs or in a caloric deficit, you’re not doing the program.

If you're just training for strength you're not training for hunting.

 

[Clarktar]

No reason the OP should be doing an intermediate program at this time. Off the couch, the novice effect will allow him to add weight to the bar every workout for weeks or months. I’ve been an intermediate for years and I am still able to run Novice Linear Progression for short periods when coming back from trips, illness, down time etc.
an intermediate program uses periodization because the trainee can no longer recover from one workout to the next. For example, Wendler 5-3-1 adds 10# to your squat once every 3 weeks because an intermediate trainee requires much more stress and recovery time. The OP should be able to add 5# per workout, 3x a week for a total of 45# for the same 3 week period and he should be able to continue that progress for a decent amount of time. There is 0 reason to do more complex programming or unnecessary volume than an individual needs to progress forward. If there is a more effective Novice (novice does not mean that you don’t know anything, it simply means that you untrained or detrained) program than Starting Strength Linear Progression, I am unaware of it. Strong Lifts has unnecessary volume for a novice. Take advantage of the simplicity of those novice gains while you have the opportunity. The goal is not to do the most complex or crazy program you can find or to be so sore you can’t walk, or to try and turn the gym into the mountains, the goal is to get your body the strongest you possibly can in the shortest amount of time and a barbell with 4-5 movements and a proven program is the most effective and efficient way to do that.

I’ve said this before on here but mountain hunting is not rocket science. Get your body strong and then get in shape for hiking with a pack. That’s it -very little skill involved so don’t make it harder than it needs to be.

Hm. I thought the wendler was still considered a linear progression type workout.

Either way, I find starting with the wendler program (I opt for the boring but big variation) works great for me (I mix in weighted hikes, jogs). Then after 3-4 months of that I move to something more sport specific with much more cardio (mtn tough, mountain tactical program) or some other random workout of similar flavor (this year I plan to put something together from Dan the Fitness man (elkshape).

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[Poser]

Hm. I thought the wendler was still considered a linear progression type workout.

Either way, I find starting with the wendler program (I opt for the boring but big variation) works great for me (I mix in weighted hikes, jogs). Then after 3-4 months of that I move to something more sport specific with much more cardio (mtn tough, mountain tactical program) or some other random workout of similar flavor (this year I plan to put something together from Dan the Fitness man (elkshape).

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Wendler 5-3-1 is a periodization based program. Linear means that progress is continual from one workout to the next. Also, since a novice doesn’t need much volume to progress from one workout to the next, the volume of an intermediate program causes excessive recovery time, distracting from novice progress.

 

[Clarktar]

Wendler 5-3-1 is a periodization based program. Linear means that progress is continual from one workout to the next. Also, since a novice doesn’t need much volume to progress from one workout to the next, the volume of an intermediate program causes excessive recovery time, distracting from novice progress.

Gotcha. I guess I consider myself a novice and seem to recover quickly (I'm in cycle two now and I always start out pretty light at beginning).

The volume of the wendler does not seem much more than starting strength. But maybe I am interpreting volumne incorrectly.

Don't want to detract from the OP. As you can see, most of the recommendations focus on major compound lifts, and mix in some sort of sport specific work (weighted hikes, runs, some sort of sustained cardio basically).

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[Coach Chris]

Also, since a novice doesn’t need much volume to progress from one workout to the next, the volume of an intermediate program causes excessive recovery time, distracting from novice progress.

There is no "excess recovery time" in a complete program designed around training for hunting season. Hunters are first and foremost, "endurance athletes". The first thing I account for when writing a program, whether it's my own program for next hunting season or one of my athletes, is "zero days" or "zero hours". I have to write in mandatory recovery time.
Basic linear progression works great when the Stress-Recovery-Adaptation Cycle isn't interrupted with Endurance-Strength, Strength-Endurance and Absolute Endurance training. "Sports specific training" has to be accounted for in total training volume. On top of that other stressors such as work, family commitments, etc... have to be factored in as well.
Even under the perfect conditions for which the basic linear programs were created each phase is a dead end street. That's why there are "novice", "intermediate" and "advanced" variations.

 

[Poser]

There is no "excess recovery time" in a complete program designed around training for hunting season. Hunters are first and foremost, "endurance athletes". The first thing I account for when writing a program, whether it's my own program for next hunting season or one of my athletes, is "zero days" or "zero hours". I have to write in mandatory recovery time.
Basic linear progression works great when the Stress-Recovery-Adaptation Cycle isn't interrupted with Endurance-Strength, Strength-Endurance and Absolute Endurance training. "Sports specific training" has to be accounted for in total training volume. On top of that other stressors such as work, family commitments, etc... have to be factored in as well.
Even under the perfect conditions for which the basic linear programs were created each phase is a dead end street. That's why there are "novice", "intermediate" and "advanced" variations.

I agree with almost all, if not all of what you stated. The thing is, hunting season is a relatively small chunk of the year, leaving a lot of time to do other things. Its also, from an athletic standpoint, a very low skill pursuit (compared to say football, skiing, or many other sports since you only need to be able to hike) and conditioning is very fleeting where strength has a longer life cycle. With that in mind, it would make sense to allocate some portion of the year to efficient and dedicated strength training vs. trying to constantly maintain a high level of conditioning. Coming in already strong, I find that the hiking involved with a pack during a couple of weeks of scouting to be entirely sufficient for hard hunting. So, if we’re talking about a person coming off the couch intending to hunt in September and it’s now late February, there’s no reason to jump the gun on conditioning. Build your strength base (and NLP does this more efficient than anything else), start blending some Conditioning in with an intermediate or situational intermediate program and then up the hiking with a pack leading up to the season with a strong set of legs and spinal erectors vs trying to achieve that same ends inefficiency with coupled stress for the entire year. It’s just hiking with a heavy pack. A strong posterior chain and some lungs to move it isn’t some secret, complex mystery program to figure out, not to mention the long term benefits of having a strong body vs having a weak and compromised body -not implying that you don’t already know anything that I said or that I know more than you (because I don’t), just having a conversation on what appears to be a subject matter with a relatively simple and straight forward solution that the hunting community trends towards constantly over thinking and complicating.

 

[Blakes]

I've been a competitive powerlifter for almost 40 yrs. I also do some cardio 4 days a week before work and hike in the mountains with my wife Saturday and Sunday.
I may not get to the top of the mountain nearly as fast as others on this site but I will get there.
I think strength is a great advantage in the mountains. There have been many times I was glad I do what I do.

 

[mtwarden]

I guess everyone is different. It took me quite awhile to build an aerobic base that allows me to run/hike 20+ miles in the mountains- not a matter of weeks (I wish!).

It's definitely not a mystery to me; if you want to move efficiently through the mountains- you need to move through the mountains or the closest reasonable facsimile there of. Relatively simple. Strength training helps, no doubt, but it takes a back seat to actually doing what you're doing during hunting season imho- moving.

No over thinking whatsoever involved

 

[ScottinPA]

Another recommendation for Starting Strength. My plan is to follow it religiously thru May then mix in more cardio knowing my strength gains will suffer from it. Plus the weather should be nice and I'll want to be outside. Did this in 2016 and it worked well for me.

 

[*zap*]

If you have harder to achieve fitness goals it can take years of dedication to earn the result.

 

[mtwarden]

If you have harder to achieve fitness goals it can take years of dedication to earn the result.

true that

 

[Mike 338]

Hmmm, no degree in training here. I can tell you what I see though. I go to the gym and the older dudes (40 and up) in the free-weight section all seem on the thick side. The term "thick" is not complimentary. Then I go to the mountains and the older dudes running around like jackrabbits with packs on are all long and lean. I've talked to quite a few of them and most stay in shape bicycling or something akin to that. There are no thick dudes running around like jackrabbits. Cardio with resistance that minimizes chance of injury should give you a useful strength/body mass ratio. I use weights/machines in high reps/light weights, to work what's not gett'in worked by the cardio.

 

[*zap*]

Hmmm, no degree in training here. I can tell you what I see though. I go to the gym and the older dudes (40 and up) in the free-weight section all seem on the thick side. The term "thick" is not complimentary. Then I go to the mountains and the older dudes running around like jackrabbits with packs on are all long and lean. I've talked to quite a few of them and most stay in shape bicycling or something akin to that. There are no thick dudes running around like jackrabbits. Cardio with resistance that minimizes chance of injury should give you a useful strength/body mass ratio. I use weights/machines in high reps/light weights, to work what's not gett'in worked by the cardio.

You need to come to my gym and you will see different things. Being older, strong and lean requires a lot of hard work but some people do it. Maybe give it a try.

 

[Mike 338]

You need to come to my gym and you will see different things. Being older, strong and lean requires a lot of hard work but some people do it. Maybe give it a try.

Oh, I've eaten my share of iron. Lifted heavy and run to many 10 k's back in the day. Can't fault anyone for how they go about their own business but personally, I see advantages to an emphasis on cardio w/resistance that translates well in the field.

 

[Coach Chris]

Hmmm, no degree in training here. I can tell you what I see though. I go to the gym and the older dudes (40 and up) in the free-weight section all seem on the thick side. The term "thick" is not complimentary. Then I go to the mountains and the older dudes running around like jackrabbits with packs on are all long and lean. I've talked to quite a few of them and most stay in shape bicycling or something akin to that. There are no thick dudes running around like jackrabbits. Cardio with resistance that minimizes chance of injury should give you a useful strength/body mass ratio. I use weights/machines in high reps/light weights, to work what's not gett'in worked by the cardio.

I train world class endurance and ultra-endurance athletes who live, work and compete in the mountains like powerlifters, i.e. heavy weight and low reps.
They are most definitely, not, "thick". LOL!

 

[*zap*]

I see advantages to an emphasis on cardio w/resistance that translates well in the field.

Nothing wrong with that but add free weight posterior chain exercises done with heavier weight ('heavier' is relative to how long you have been at those exercises) on a regular basis and you will increase what you have available for 'in the field'. You strengthen your posture and the muscles involved in having correct posture and you will undoubtedly find packing easier. I think great overall body strength comes form a very strong posterior chain and you will not get that from cardio and light weight high rep machine/weights. Now if you are doing extensive cardio also it becomes demanding and requires patience and dedication to include those things regularly and proper form, core engagement and pelvic rotation is very important to get the max benefits.

Just very deep squats, deadlift, glute bridge, good mornings and clean and press with heavier but sensible weight for your level can be very demanding physically but it will make a person's overall strength go way up. Heavier dumbbell flat bench presses and pick the dumb bells up, sit down and do your set and then get up and walk over and rack the dumb bells and see how you feel the next day....that's another great overall body strength exercise if you work up toward 90-100# dumb bells. Just sit right up, stand up and rack em.

When your doing good cardio, good strength training and working on flexibility your on a true fitness program, imo. E-Z peasy to do just one of those.....and play with the others. But not many people do all three hard core because of the debilitation period when you start doing all those things routinely.....many people quit before that debilitation period ends because it is a rough stretch of time to go thru.

 

[Mike 338]

I train world class endurance and ultra-endurance athletes who live, work and compete in the mountains like powerlifters, i.e. heavy weight and low reps.
They are most definitely, not, "thick". LOL!

I wouldn't expect a world class athlete to be. They keeping up the same routine at 60?