Volunteers Needed to Hunt Bison on the Grand Canyon's North Rim

[Opah]

Yes I do, Thank you
How about you ?
question:
Each volunteer group lasts four days, how long will a carcass last without spoiling in the 90 + in Sep. or the 80+ in Oct. ?

 

[HuntHarder]

Yup, do not apply. It's going to be terrible. Probably just get to be the trigger man and the pack mule for the native Indians. I wouldn't be surprised if the Gov't tries to frame you as a poacher after you shoot it. Too risky imo, I would avoid this at all costs. When you got guys from Ca, telling you how bad it is going to be, you know it's gonna be bad. DO NOT APPLY!!!

 

[MattB]

Yes I do, Thank you
How about you ?
question:
Each volunteer group lasts four days, how long will a carcass last without spoiling in the 90 + in Sep. or the 80+ in Oct. ?

9/20 + 9/21 + 9/22 + 9/23 + 9/24 = 4 days?

The optimist's side of the coin has refrigeration.

 

[Opah]

I got it in Oct, at 80 degree temps:
10-12 hours
If you had left the hide on, I can only estimate that at 80 degrees, you would have had a completely spoiled deer within 10-12 hours.
So that leaves the carcasses out for 80 + hours rotting ?
Or do you think they may have a refrigerated semi trailer Burning gas for 16 plus days to keep 10,000 lbs a day in ?
Like it was said this is not a hunt, it is thinning out the herd and preserving the Meat would not be #1 on the list.

 

[Opah]

They Plan on reducing the herd from 600 to below 200 that would mean even if it were 5 days per group and 12 shooters = 8 bison per Day now figure each bison at 1200 lbs a small Bull or average Cow that's close to 10,000 lbs to pack out each day, by 12 to 25 so lets say 25 is 400 lbs a day each, for 5 days is 2000 lbs each.
all in all 480,000 lbs of Bison to store !
I take it back this is not FUBAR this is a 6480,000 dollar scam 6 million 480 thousand dollars at the average price of 13.5 per lbs. and with No labor cost freaking they are going to rake it in !
OOOPs I forgot to subtract, the 14,400 lbs the the shooters MAY get, but do you think they are going to give away 194,400 dollars of pure profit ?

 

[Billinsd]

I'd be asking AZGF all the questions and concerns us pessimists are, if I was serious about going. They probably would answer many or all questions. I'd be good with that, since AZGF is one of the better agencies I've dealt with. AZGF has been excellent in answering all my questions about hunting there.

I'm not saying anyone here is doing this, but some may lampoon this whole deal so they have a greater chance of going. On other forums it wouldn't surprise me.

Bill

 

[MattB]

They Plan on reducing the herd from 600 to below 200 that would mean even if it were 5 days per group and 12 shooters = 8 bison per Day now figure each bison at 1200 lbs a small Bull or average Cow that's close to 10,000 lbs to pack out each day, by 12 to 25 so lets say 25 is 400 lbs a day each, for 5 days is 2000 lbs each.
all in all 480,000 lbs of Bison to store !
I take it back this is not FUBAR this is a 6480,000 dollar scam 6 million 480 thousand dollars at the average price of 13.5 per lbs. and with No labor cost freaking they are going to rake it in !
OOOPs I forgot to subtract, the 14,400 lbs the the shooters MAY get, but do you think they are going to give away 194,400 dollars of pure profit ?

You should read the information provided on the herd reduction FAQ which would help you refine your assumptions.

 

[Opah]

On September 1, 2017, the NPS issued a Finding of No Significant Impact (FONSI) to reduce the number of bison on the North Rim of the Grand Canyon National Park (GCNP) from around 600 bison to less than 200 bison using lethal removal with skilled volunteers and non-lethal capture and live removal.
In addition to removal, Grand Canyon National Park biologists began piloting live capture and relocation in 2019. Since the program began, 88 animals have been captured and relocated to five American Indian Tribes
So it has taken a year for 98 Bison, so make it 300 instead of 400 and them increase the average weight to 1500 lbs instead of 1200 lbs and we end up about the same.
NOTE:
The numbers are subject to change as I see fit to demonstrate my assumptions.
Please send all constructive criticism to Does it really matter. com

 

[Deplorable77]

I got it in Oct, at 80 degree temps:
10-12 hours
If you had left the hide on, I can only estimate that at 80 degrees, you would have had a completely spoiled deer within 10-12 hours.
So that leaves the carcasses out for 80 + hours rotting ?
Or do you think they may have a refrigerated semi trailer Burning gas for 16 plus days to keep 10,000 lbs a day in ?
Like it was said this is not a hunt, it is thinning out the herd and preserving the Meat would not be #1 on the list.

 

[Opah]

What is the difference between lethal removal and a hunt?
Lethal removal is a fundamentally different activity than hunting. Key differences include: (a) During lethal removal, the animals are destroyed primarily for management purposes; in hunting the animal is destroyed for recreational purposes. (b) Lethal removal is conducted under controlled circumstances under the direction and supervision of the National Park Service; hunting is performed at the hunter’s discretion and with elements of “fair chase” present. (c) Lethal removal does not allow the person who killed the animal to keep the entire animal; hunting does. (d) Conclusion: Simply put, lethal removal serves a public purpose, while hunting serves both public and private purposes.

 

[Opah]

The average high-temperature, in September, in Grand Canyon National Park, Arizona, is 93°F (33.9°C), while the average low-temperature is 66°F (18.9°C).
you pick your online source Ill pick mine, Tit for Tat, 6 to you 1/2 dozen to me and 6.5 to a baker

 

[Billy Goat]

 

[Opah]

Lets break this down into simpler language:
a bunch of Bison are going to be killed by 12 volunteer shooters.
Only one bison per shooter may be given away, and the rest under the care of ADFW.
Bison meat in pretty much inline with the cost of Beef.
That is a lot of bison unaccounted for, could be Millions of dollars going into some ones pocket. and the best part of all is they are getting the labor, bullets rifles, accommodations and food for free !
Super deal for ADFW

 

[WCB]

Lets break this down into simpler language:
a bunch of Bison are going to be killed by 12 volunteer shooters.
Only one bison per shooter may be given away, and the rest under the care of ADFW.
Bison meat in pretty much inline with the cost of Beef.
That is a lot of bison unaccounted for, could be Millions of dollars going into some ones pocket. and the best part of all is they are getting the labor, bullets rifles, accommodations and food for free !
Super deal for ADFW

On the FAQ page for the removal...it states that any parts not taken by volunteers will be given to the tribes....now what they are allowed to do with them or if it is intended to be handed out to tribal members is another thing...but it is not exactly unaccounted for.

Now with my experience with tribes and their leadership I wouldn't trust them to hand it out properly to their members.

Also, do any of you guys actually read the official hunt wording? Straight from the source:

Am I responsible for providing cooler storage for meat that may be processed?
No, the National Park Service is going to provide a cooler for meat for the entire volunteer week. However, you are responsible for providing a cooler for transport of meat.

 

[MattB]

On the FAQ page for the removal...it states that any parts not taken by volunteers will be given to the tribes....now what they are allowed to do with them or if it is intended to be handed out to tribal members is another thing...but it is not exactly unaccounted for.

Now with my experience with tribes and their leadership I wouldn't trust them to hand it out properly to their members.

Also, do any of you guys actually read the official hunt wording? Straight from the source:

Am I responsible for providing cooler storage for meat that may be processed?
No, the National Park Service is going to provide a cooler for meat for the entire volunteer week. However, you are responsible for providing a cooler for transport of meat.

No, it is clear that some people either have not read or do not understand what has been published about the hunt.

That this is the first of what sounds like multiple cull periods.

That they will continue with the non-lethal removal as well.

That the hunt is on the north rim (which is ~1,500 ft higher in elevation and hence cooler than the south rim).

That the government is providing coolers for the meat.

That it is illegal to sell wild game in the U.S.

 

[Deplorable77]

I applied, I think it is an awesome opportunity to be able to hunt these majestic animals on public land with the government's permission and benevolent guidance. Who knows, maybe I can teach one of them how to tie their shoes un- assisted and they can show me some primitive skill in return.

 

[BluMtn]

I find this part interesting,

"The pilot program will be run by Grand Canyon NPS staff. Approved members of Arizona's general removal volunteer program and 11 TRIBES will help cull the animals. NPS is working closely with the tribes on this program because of the important cultural and traditional use of bison and tribal partners have requested access to bison meat, hides, and animal parts for traditional uses."

 

[Billy Goat]

I'd be putting my name in the hat. It's something that sounds like it might be a once in a lifetime experience. Not what I'm going to call a hunt, but an experience. It could turn to more of a hunt, or a high fence shoot. Just don't know until you give it a try.

 

[BassAssassin04]

Sounds a lot like a guided hunt to me. I applied

 

[Moserkr]

The optimist in me imagines a really fun time where it is like a guided hunt, with minimal government guidance, and a lot of people pitching in their hard work with the utmost care for the animals harvested.

The realist in me knows better than to trust the optimist (or the government).

Sounds like shooting a moo-cow in a farmers field, doing all the work, and maybe getting a fraction of the reward for the work. I can also imagine government “workers” watching me do the work while making sure I do it to their standards. Hard pass on being a qualified volunteer. Sounds like the tribes have a vested interest and could provide all the work if they wanted to. To the guys who want to be the hard working volunteer, good for you and best of luck. I hope its better than they have to make it sound. I do like the “weaselword” term but understand its necessity in order for a “non-hunt” to happen and stay out of litigation by the crazy lib crowd.