Vaccine?

[thinhorn_AK]

But you're okay with speed limits, it sounds like...

If you can’t see the difference between asking people to drive responsibility and forcing medical procedures on people then you are lost. I’m sorry that that comparison seems logical to you, I honestly don’t know how you could think that but whatever.

 

[jspradley]

Absolutely not because I dont live in Nazi Germany, the government does not have the right to force medical procedures on individuals.

SCOTUS says otherwise.

 

[Newtosavage]

If you can’t see the difference between asking people to drive responsibility and forcing medical procedures on people then you are lost. I’m sorry that that comparison seems logical to you, I honestly don’t know how you could think that but whatever.

I guess I can't. Please feel free to enlighten me. I'm being serious.

We all do things we don't always want to do ( I don't always want to drive the speed limit) out of concern for our fellow citizens. Or at least one would hope that's the reason we're doing them...

 

[Sccritterkiller]

So for the sake of argument, if your Gov signed a bill into law that you had to get vaccinated in order to do certain things you want to do, would you then comply with that law? Just a hypothetical...

Is the Goverment going to accept liability from any complications from said vaccine? Here in lies my rub with this vaccine...It has been rushed to market and liability has been waived for all the producers....

 

[Ozarkansas]

I feel that personal safety is up to individuals and I comply with laws. If you break the speed limits and crash your car or injure somebody, thats on you.

Okay so to take that further, if a law was passed that mandated vaccines, would you comply?
Lol someone beat me to it. Anyway sounds like there are laws you believe are justified and laws that aren't, and I don't think either of us will change the other's mind on the subject of where to draw that line.

On a more general note, I think this probably won't become mandated at the government level, but will be mandated by foreign governments for international travel or by businesses (as is their right in my opinion as I'm a fan of strong borders and the right for businesses to set their own risk level). My opinion is that there will be strong societal pressure-but not government mandate- to get vaccinated.
For the record I'm not pro-government mandated vaccinations, but I do believe that pandemics are public health issues that require the sort of logic we have applied to other public health issues, such as driving drunk and smoking in restaurants. I think it's entirely reasonable to not want to be the first to get this vaccine, and unless you work in healthcare or are high-risk there's absolutely no way you will be.

 

[Newtosavage]

Okay so to take that further, if a law was passed that mandated vaccines, would you comply?
Lol someone beat me to it. Anyway sounds like there are laws you believe are justified and laws that aren't, and I don't think either of us will change the other's mind on the subject of where to draw that line.

On a more general note, I think this probably won't become mandated at the government level, but will be mandated by foreign governments for international travel or by businesses (as is their right in my opinion as I'm a fan of strong borders and the right for businesses to set their own risk level). My opinion is that there will be strong societal pressure-but not government mandate- to get vaccinated.
For the record I'm not pro-government mandated vaccinations, but I do believe that pandemics are public health issues that require the sort of logic we have applied to other public health issues, such as driving drunk and smoking in restaurants. I think it's entirely reasonable to not want to be the first to get this vaccine, and unless you work in healthcare or are high-risk there's absolutely no way you will be.

We can't put our children in public schools without proving first they have received certain vaccinations, so as to protect the other children. The idea that in order to do certain things, one must first be vaccinated is certainly nothing new.

Personally, I like the "pay them to get vaccinated" idea, and if it allows more folks to get a stimulus check, then all the better.

 

[orionthehunter1]

We can't put our children in public schools without proving first they have received certain vaccinations, so as to protect the other children. The idea that in order to do certain things, one must first be vaccinated is certainly nothing new.

Personally, I like the "pay them to get vaccinated" idea, and if it allows more folks to get a stimulus check, then all the better.

You still never answered my question on how they would accomplish this with people who didn't get stimulus checks you just accused me of not filing my taxes. Also children can go to public school without vaccinations

 

[Ozarkansas]

We can't put our children in public schools without proving first they have received certain vaccinations, so as to protect the other children. The idea that in order to do certain things, one must first be vaccinated is certainly nothing new.

Personally, I like the "pay them to get vaccinated" idea, and if it allows more folks to get a stimulus check, then all the better.

I think for the most part we agree, but I don't like the idea of "pay to get the vaccine" when it takes the form of essentially denying people a stimulus check until they get it. The effort to vaccinate is going to take a long time and I think we can all agree that if a stimulus is needed it's not fair to give some people the money last just because they're lower risk.
Regarding vaccines in schools, you're right but if we're being honest the scale is substantially different than a nationwide requirement with no way to opt out. That being said I'm all for adding this vaccine to the list required for kids once it's approved for use on children, but that might not be for a while yet.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Okay so to take that further, if a law was passed that mandated vaccines, would you comply?
Lol someone beat me to it. Anyway sounds like there are laws you believe are justified and laws that aren't, and I don't think either of us will change the other's mind on the subject of where to draw that line.

On a more general note, I think this probably won't become mandated at the government level, but will be mandated by foreign governments for international travel or by businesses (as is their right in my opinion as I'm a fan of strong borders and the right for businesses to set their own risk level). My opinion is that there will be strong societal pressure-but not government mandate- to get vaccinated.
For the record I'm not pro-government mandated vaccinations, but I do believe that pandemics are public health issues that require the sort of logic we have applied to other public health issues, such as driving drunk and smoking in restaurants. I think it's entirely reasonable to not want to be the first to get this vaccine, and unless you work in healthcare or are high-risk there's absolutely no way you will be.

You know who supported government forcing people to comply with medical procedures???

Obviously there are laws I agree with and laws I don’t agree with. Very astute of you.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I guess I can't. Please feel free to enlighten me. I'm being serious.

We all do things we don't always want to do ( I don't always want to drive the speed limit) out of concern for our fellow citizens. Or at least one would hope that's the reason we're doing them...

You would have fit in perfectly Germany back in the 1930s/40s. I don’t mean that as an insult but you seem very eager to go along with a government forcing you to undergo a medical procedure.

 

[Evol]

If you can’t see the difference between asking people to drive responsibility and forcing medical procedures on people then you are lost. I’m sorry that that comparison seems logical to you, I honestly don’t know how you could think that but whatever.

I think for the most part we agree, but I don't like the idea of "pay to get the vaccine" when it takes the form of essentially denying people a stimulus check until they get it. The effort to vaccinate is going to take a long time and I think we can all agree that if a stimulus is needed it's not fair to give some people the money last just because they're lower risk.
Regarding vaccines in schools, you're right but if we're being honest the scale is substantially different than a nationwide requirement with no way to opt out. That being said I'm all for adding this vaccine to the list required for kids once it's approved for use on children, but that might not be for a while yet.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

SCOTUS says otherwise.

I’ll be laughing my ass off if they try it. See how the general public reacts to that one.

 

[Newtosavage]

You would have fit in perfectly Germany back in the 1930s/40s. I don’t mean that as an insult but you seem very eager to go along with a government forcing you to undergo a medical procedure.

Just answer the question. No need to get personal. If you have a valid argument, here's the place to express it. I'll listen.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Just answer the question. No need to get personal. If you have a valid argument, here's the place to express it. I'll listen.

You can’t force people to do things they don’t want to with their bodies. You can’t force people to have abortions either. If you want to live in a country where the government has those rights, move to Saudi Arabia.

 

[Newtosavage]

You still never answered my question on how they would accomplish this with people who didn't get stimulus checks you just accused me of not filing my taxes. Also children can go to public school without vaccinations

Wow you reach...

I never accused you of not filing your taxes. Go back and re-read what I wrote. Good God man.

I'm not aware of a public school that takes kids in without proof of certain vaccinations. I know we had our kid's shot records handy at every school we enrolled them in. I'm also aware of people who home school their kids because they are anti-vax and they can't get them in public school. But you might be right. I don't know every school district's rules.

 

[Newtosavage]

You can’t force people to do things they don’t want to with their bodies. You can’t force people to have abortions either. If you want to live in a country where the government has those rights, move to Saudi Arabia.

Still not an answer.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Still not an answer.

I’ve already answered and others have chimed in as well. There is absolutely no comparison between traffic laws and forcing people to
Undergo unwanted medical procedures. Like I said already, if you can’t see the difference as basic as it is there is no sense going any farther with this conversation. Put me on ignore if you will but please don’t respond to me again. I have no time for people who would support government forced medical procedures, many people have fought and died to avoid such things in this country.

 

[orionthehunter1]

Wow you reach...

I never accused you of not filing your taxes. Go back and re-read what I wrote. Good God man.

I'm not aware of a public school that takes kids in without proof of certain vaccinations. I know we had our kid's shot records handy at every school we enrolled them in. I'm also aware of people who home school their kids because they are anti-vax and they can't get them in public school. But you might be right. I don't know every school district's rules.

You literally said that the only people you knew who didn't get a check were ones who didn't file their taxes then you put a so and some question marks. That seemed to me that you were implying I didn't get one because I didn't file my taxes. Kids going to public schools without vaccinations happens all the time, same as nurses and healthcare workers that opt of their "mandatory" flu shots for religious purposes. Some people think the government has more control over their lives then they actually do.

 

[fwafwow]

Still can't believe this thread is still going... especially now that people with both views have now been referred to as sheep.

The "stimulus" and/or vax checks raises a new question (at least in my mind) - who is paying for that? (Rhetorical question.) It has already been suggested by at least one pol that we should pay folks to stay at home during the pandemic. So maybe we can do both - pay some to get the shot, and those who don't want it we pay to stay home. Money to burn!

 

[Ozarkansas]

a good article on the history of mandated vaccinations in America

I'm not saying we should make a vaccine mandatory for all americans, but we shouldn't act like it's a feature of nazi Germany either. Washington mandated inoculation at Valley Forge and that was way more dangerous than vaccination. Mass quarantines have been enacted in our nation several times in the face of cholera, smallpox, and plague outbreaks. Mass vaccination has even occured during smallpox epidemics and -was generally not well received. The national supreme court ruled it was okay but some state supreme courts put heavy limits on it.

Anyway, since it's been tried and only been somewhat successful, I don't see mandatory vaccination happening. Medical workers will get the vaccine first along with the military. Then, higher risk demographics and age groups. Nursing homes might force the people staying there to get vaccinated, but that's their right as a business/healthcare facility. Then everyone who wants it will get it as it becomes available, which will likely take months. By then the pandemic will probably be waning because like 60% or more of the country will be vaccinated and this will all be a non-issue.