Vaccine?

[orionthehunter1]

Is anyone else noticing that the actual health care workers on this thread are the ones saying how dangerous this disease is and how the vaccine should be taken? While the average Joe’s are the ones sowing doubt and dismissing the seriousness? That’s very telling to me! I’m going to listen to the pro’s on this one. Seems like a better source of info than the random internet hunter that turns a crank for a living.

Pretty broad statement you made there in your last sentence.

 

[AK Troutbum]

Have you considered that there may be side effects of the vaccine?

Yes I have, and from what I understand the side effects are more associated with the second dose, and tend to be mild flu like symptoms that last about a day. As far as any long term side effects, I am not aware of any.


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[realunlucky]

Yes I have, and from what I understand the side effects are more associated with the second dose, and tend to be mild flu like symptoms that last about a day. As far as any long term side effects, I am not aware of any.


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How could they possibly have collected data on long term side effects?

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[AK Troutbum]

Just curious but have you seen relatively healthy people have many issues from the virus?

No I have not, and working in a smaller hospital/ICU, in a state that is second to last for the # of deaths associated with Covid, I just haven’t seen tons of cases. On the flip side, I do have friends, and a few family members that are in the medical profession, in other harder hit places of the country, and from them I’ve heard multiple accounts of young, healthier people dying from it.


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[AK Troutbum]

You think frontline workers, the elderly, and first responders are sheep?

That’s me, I’m a sheep. I guess I’m a cannibal as well since I ate Dall sheep for dinner last night.


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[AK Troutbum]

How could they possibly have collected data on long term side effects?

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Not enough time has passed, so they couldn’t, therefore l’m not aware of any.


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[AKDoc]

Each of us will make our own decision to receive or not receive the first vaccine, the second, etc. Hopefully, that individual decision is an informed decision by each of us. Weighing the individual pros/cons of a "yes" or a "no" requires relevant, trusted, and valid information...and therein lies the challenge for lots of different reasons across us because we human beings are highly varied in our perspectives, attitudes, etc.

Rokslide is a great hunting forum, and I do enjoy this hunting forum as a member. It sure appears to me that the vast majority of our membership is comprised of good people, who truly enjoy helping others. The intent to help others appears evident in many parts of this thread...and it is also evident that there are many well educated and informed individuals in our membership.

That said, I am choosing to believe that members will discuss individual healthcare pro/con questions of the vaccine as it relates to their own personal health with their trusted primary care provider. I'm choosing to believe that no one here is going to make an important healthcare decision based solely upon what one reads on the general internet or on a hunting forum, despite the clearly good intentions of many members here to be helpful.

I think it was George Bernard Shaw (I could be wrong on that) who (roughly quoted) said, "In the end when we reflect back, we will see that our life was comprised of 10% things that happened to us, and 90% what we did about it moving forward and decisions that we made." Given that perspective, Covid is a 10%...what we each choose to do about it moving forward is part of the 90%.

 

[justin davis]

At this point I can't even count the number of people I have seen with this. Plenty of otherwise reasonably healthy people, particularly men in their 50's, who have been absolutely waylaid by this virus. Weeks in the hospital. Days sedated and intubated. Then a massive amount of oxygen delivered just to be able to stay alive. Don't even think of walking to the bathroom because if they try they get so short of breath they cannot stand. Over and over and over.

Imagine going from living an otherwise normal life to not being able to sit in a chair because you become so short of oxygen you feel like you are dying. In a matter of days. Me and my people see it every single day.

You can go back to the original big covid thread and find my post about how it was nothing to worry about. Let me tell you, I was very wrong. If I was 25 and lived away from at risk people I can see how it wouldn't concern me, but I have elderly family, immunocompromised friends, and am old enough to be at risk. This virus is something fear for someone in my position.

That’s interesting. Opposite of my experience.

The people I’ve seen with positive cases have all had very mild cases. Less symptoms than common cold virus. Just went on a lady yesterday who had covid. She just turned 95 and she was fine. Recovered fine from it.

My daughter works in a nursing home. They had an outbreak and every single patient in the entire place got covid it. 50 something people. They lost 4 to covid. But I was surprised that many people survived considering almost all her patients are elderly and have conditions.

 

[Akwoodchuck]

I'm going to hold out on taking it until we have a million dead, and 90% of our small businesses are shuttered....because nobody's gonna tell this macho man what to do....

 

[Fatcamp]

That’s interesting. Opposite of my experience.

The people I’ve seen with positive cases have all had very mild cases. Less symptoms than common cold virus. Just went on a lady yesterday who had covid. She just turned 95 and she was fine. Recovered fine from it.

My daughter works in a nursing home. They had an outbreak and every single patient in the entire place got covid it. 50 something people. They lost 4 to covid. But I was surprised that many people survived considering almost all her patients are elderly and have conditions.

I work on a cardiopulmonary unit that has partially transitioned to ICU because beds are full upstairs. We are a stepdown critical care floor in the best of times and primarily a covid floor now.

We have been caring for covid patients since this mess started in March and as of now South Dakota has the highest per capita rate of infections nationwide. 54 deaths statewide yesterday.

Me and my team have seen and been through a lot.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Yes I have, and from what I understand the side effects are more associated with the second dose, and tend to be mild flu like symptoms that last about a day. As far as any long term side effects, I am not aware of any.


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Nobody is aware of any because nobody has gotten the vaccine and had a few years to see what the long term side effects may be.

 

[fwafwow]

This topic/post is like a grenade - the equivalent of "9mm or .45? Which is better and why?" (Sorry to the OP - don't know if that's your intent, but the back and forth and resulting direct and backhanded slights seem to have ended up yielding the same result.)

I disagree with some of the folks' views on here, but you can make your own decision and if you take a different path than me, I don't think less of you - and I won't question your motivations.

A question was asked about healthy people's reaction. FWIW:

• I'm very healthy even at 50. It took me 3 weeks to recover from C-19, and even though my symptoms were "mild" (as they say), it sucked. Two months later I had an accident and the ER physicians said they could tell I had previously had C-19 because they could see "ground glass opacities" in my lungs. No clue what that means for me long-term.
• My daughter works for a contact tracing effort and she talks to many people with a wide range of symptoms - from an 80 year old with no symptoms, to a 20 year old who spent time in the hospital. Like many posts - YMMV.
• Even though I have had it, I'm interested in the vaccine. But I'm also interested in more info and seeing how the first "batch" works out.

 

[Marbles]

Maybe one of these pro’s can chime in and tell us what exactly is in the vaccine, how It works and what are the possible side effects.
I doubt any will respond because they have no idea.

^^^^bingo^^^^

Which of the 87 vaccines in development do you want to know about? I guess the Pfizer, Astrazeneca, and Moderna are the ones being looked at for emergency use approval. The Astraseneca probably will not be approved with the current data. The Pfizer vaccine has significant logistical barriers to its distribution. So I will just use the Moderna vaccine (mRNA-1273) as the example.

This is an mRNA vaccine that instructs your cells to make the stabilized version of the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. This mRNA is coated in lipid nanoparticles to protect it and to aid entry through cell membranes. So, the primary ingredients are mRNA and lipids. The molecular structure of these is not available at this time, but even if you where a biochemist molecular structure would be of little value in assessing the safety of the vaccine. So, there you have what is in it, and how it works.

The adverse events have been short lived chills, fever, headache, shortness of breath, fatigue and muscle pain up to this point.

SARS-CoV-2 itself instructs your cells to manufacture this spike protein, so it is unlikely that the vaccine will do anything that COVID does not already do. Part of the reason Moderna was able to turn out a vaccine so fast is because they have spent more than 2 years working on a vaccine for MERS-CoV, another corona virus.

There are unknowns, I have not denied those in any of my previous posts, yet you still chose to be insulting and claim global ignorance on my part and that of the entire healthcare community while being too apathetic to write more than two sentences to back that up. What if is an easy game to play, it cuts both ways, and unless it focuses on facts and what can actually be known it is an exercise in paralysis.

 

[SDHNTR]

You know this whole debate brings about a question I’ve had since this terrible mess started... Why is there so little focus on a cheap (even gov subsidized. It would be cheaper than the economic loss) and widely accessible home test kit? We have the technology now but it apparently requires a MD prescription? Wtf? Every household should have a dozen of these things at the ready! We’ve dumped billions into a vaccine which now people are questioning? But we can’t fund or direct resources to cheap and easy testing that is unquestionably harmless, unlike some people’s take on the vaccine? I don’t get it. It would be politically agnostic (I think) too.


That way, if you don’t trust or don’t want the vaccine, Fine, but at least then you’d have the ability to take a quick home test before you socialize and unknowingly put others in danger. Easy fix! I wish it got more attention.

 

[SDHNTR]

Which of the 87 vaccines in development do you want to know about? I guess the Pfizer, Astrazeneca, and Moderna are the ones being looked at for emergency use approval. The Astraseneca probably will not be approved with the current data. The Pfizer vaccine has significant logistical barriers to its distribution. So I will just use the Moderna vaccine (mRNA-1273) as the example.

This is an mRNA vaccine that instructs your cells to make the stabilized version of the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. This mRNA is coated in lipid nanoparticles to protect it and to aid entry through cell membranes. So, the primary ingredients are mRNA and lipids. The molecular structure of these is not available at this time, but even if you where a biochemist molecular structure would be of little value in assessing the safety of the vaccine. So, there you have what is in it, and how it works.

The adverse events have been short lived chills, fever, headache, shortness of breath, fatigue and muscle pain up to this point.

SARS-CoV-2 itself instructs your cells to manufacture this spike protein, so it is unlikely that the vaccine will do anything that COVID does not already do. Part of the reason Moderna was able to turn out a vaccine so fast is because they have spent more than 2 years working on a vaccine for MERS-CoV, another corona virus.

There are unknowns, I have not denied those in any of my previous posts, yet you still chose to be insulting and claim global ignorance on my part and that of the entire healthcare community while being too apathetic to write more than two sentences to back that up. What if is an easy game to play, it cuts both ways, and unless it focuses on facts and what can actually be known it is an exercise in paralysis.

I, for one, appreciate your well informed response.

 

[Bighorner]

Well said

 

[fwafwow]

You know this whole debate brings about a question I’ve had since this terrible mess started... Why is there so little focus on a cheap (even gov subsidized. It would be cheaper than the economic loss) and widely accessible home test kit? We have the technology now but it apparently requires a MD prescription? Wtf? Every household should have a dozen of these things at the ready! We’ve dumped billions into a vaccine which now people are questioning? But we can’t fund or direct resources to cheap and easy testing that is unquestionably harmless, unlike some people’s take on the vaccine? I don’t get it. It would be politically agnostic (I think) too.


That way, if you don’t trust or don’t want the vaccine, Fine, but at least then you’d have the ability to take a quick home test before you socialize and unknowingly put others in danger. Easy fix! I wish it got more attention.

Coming from a perspective of ignorance, please take my speculation with a grain of salt. I agree with you that having widely available home test kits would be great. I imagine that the reason we don't may be a resource issue (seems like at the beginning there was a shortage of swabs), concern about families hoarding kits, the risk of inaccuracy being greater for self-administered tests, or some combination thereof. A physician member would probably have better insight.

I've always wondered why there was not more emphasis on the inaccuracy of tests - false positive and false negatives. I for one had a false negative initial test, but since I trusted my symptoms more than the results, I stayed isolated. I imagine that if I had been asymptomatic, I would have behaved differently.

 

[bdg848]

+1 but I’ve been hearing for a while how my antibodies “won’t last very long”

The antibodies your body makes for the real deal only last 3 months apparently, but they're telling us the antibodies your body makes for the dead virus in the vaccine are more effective? Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[bdg848]

I will probably be forced to as a "front line worker" but otherwise wouldn't. I've had it and if I had never heard of covid I would only have taken one day off work due to a slight fever and headache. It's also not my job to ensure other's health.

 

[Marbles]

The antibodies your body makes for the real deal only last 3 months apparently, but they're telling us the antibodies your body makes for the dead virus in the vaccine are more effective? Doesn't make sense to me.

You are correct, that does not compute. T-cell mediated immunity has been shown to last much longer, and while we may not have isolated exactly how immunity to SARS-CoV-2 works we can look at the available data and see that so far (and yes this could change) reinfection is at a low enough rate that non-responders (something seen with other infections that tend to generate immunity and with vaccines) can explain it. We are getting to the point where some confidence can be had in this an immunity that is more durable than 3 months. For SARS-CoV-1 and MERS-CoV this cell mediated immunity appears to last for 2-3 years, but not 5-6. So, there is good reason to hope for 2-3 years of immunity from a vaccine. After that it is likely boosters will be needed like with tetanus. Unfortunately, until we are several years down the road we will not have certainty.

Covid-19: T cell response lasts for at least six months after infection, study shows

Robust cellular immunity persists for at least for six months after even mild or asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection, research has shown.1 The study of 100 people showed that all had a cellular immune response against SARS-CoV-2 six months after infection although the size of response was 50%...

www.bmj.com

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32137-1/fulltext