Utah- what the hell?

[Hnthrdr]

Must be so great to hunt in Utah that they have to come to Co, Wyo, ID, and Az every year… I would reckon if Mike Lee gets his way, there will be even more Utards venturing out of state to hunt….

 

[mtwarden]

To the Utah residents, because I know very little about Utah lands, are there State tracts of land, or prvt landowner management that has been better hunting access and success story, or are most OTC/general tags hunted on Fed land? Where do most guys hunt?

Utah still has some State Trust lands, but have sold roughly 55% of those lands; about 4 million acres

 

[mtwarden]

Utah still has some State Trust lands, but have sold roughly 55% of those lands; about 4 million acres

You can be assured if they were handed the federal lands in their state, most of it would soon be for sale

 

[Andrew12gauge]

Must be so great to hunt in Utah that they have to come to Co, Wyo, ID, and Az every year… I would reckon if Mike Lee gets his way, there will be even more Utards venturing out of state to hunt….

I’m guessing they won’t be doing that because if Mike Lee gets his way there won’t be any public lands in any of the other states listed


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[3forks]

This week’s Meateater podcast centered around Utah’s effort to sue the federal government to take ownership of federal lands in the state.

 

[mtwarden]

I’m guessing they won’t be doing that because if Mike Lee gets his way there won’t be any public lands in any of the other states listed


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True that. Alaska, Arizona, Idaho and Wyoming have all submitted briefs in support

 

[HighUintas]

Must be so great to hunt in Utah that they have to come to Co, Wyo, ID, and Az every year… I would reckon if Mike Lee gets his way, there will be even more Utards venturing out of state to hunt….

Unfortunately it is not great. I think that's why there's many Utah guys that hunt elsewhere in addition to Utah.

 

[Idaboy]

Who is backing Lee to push for this? Some industry/money must be the lobby....

 

[HighUintas]

Housing development and mineral/energy extraction is Utah's main motivation. Lee is supported by Utahns that are either completely ignorant of the risk of losing land to recreate on, or they just don't care because they're too concerned with "gubmt overreach"

 

[IDVortex]

Mormon wives just need more land to build more big homes that are white with a shit load of board and batten and white stone with black accents colors with their Stanley mugs.

 

[woods89]

Mormon wives just need more land to build more big homes that are white with a shit load of board and batten and white stone with black accents colors with their Stanley mugs.

If there is one trend I am ready to see fade into the past it's the whole white with black accents decor........

 

[Hnthrdr]

Housing development and mineral/energy extraction is Utah's main motivation. Lee is supported by Utahns that are either completely ignorant of the risk of losing land to recreate on, or they just don't care because they're too concerned with "gubmt overreach"

No offense to Mormons, literally some of the nicest people you will meet, but I have an inkling there is still a lot of government distrust and hatred from how the Mormons were treated about a 150 years ago. From what I have seen they are still firmly the ruling class in Utah. Makes a lot of sense that the biggest element of anti fed land holders stem from Utah

 

[CorbLand]

To the Utah residents, because I know very little about Utah lands, are there State tracts of land, or prvt landowner management that has been better hunting access and success story, or are most OTC/general tags hunted on Fed land? Where do most guys hunt?

Where I am, most of the State ground is intermingled with Federal ground. I have hunted both and killed animals on both. The State ground is generally a section or two, there isnt a lot of large chunks of it. Most of it is available to hunt and is in ways, better habitat due to less regulation for land management. Lots more logging, lop and scatters, etc take place on the State ground.

Utah also has a CWMU program to work with large tracks of private ground. Land owners get some tags they can use or sell but in turn, they have to allow some access for public hunters to their ground. Generally the public gets access to hunt cows and the land owners get bull tags. They are their own units that you have to apply for and draw odds on many of them are not any better than what you expect in Utah.

Most of this is being driven by Southern Utah. There is still a lot of hold over down there from the Sage Brush Rebellion. There is also a lot of resentment for the Federal Government in Utah. It is literally a state founded because people were running from the Federal Government.

There are also a lot of people here that really dont understand that they can recreate on the ground because it is owned by the Federal Government. I talk to a lot of people that truly dont understand how any of it works. Add that with a resentment of government and well, you get what you get.

In defense of Utah though. A lot of this state is owned and managed by the Federal agencies. A lot of that ground is in Southern Utah and a lot of towns down there were built on ranching, mineral extraction, etc. Increased regulations are killing those industries down there.

No good will come out of this if it works. Its literally in the press release that one of the things that Utah misses out on due to the large amount of Federal ground is property taxes. Then they go on to say how they dont want to take away peoples ability to recreate...but you dont tax PUBLIC ground. How are you missing out on property taxes of public ground?

 

[mtwarden]

How are you missing out on property taxes of public ground?

sell it and then tax it = more tax income, but goodbye to recreation

 

[Hnthrdr]

sell it and then tax it = more tax income, but goodbye to recreation

That’s the elephant in the room that it seems like everyone ignores, willfully or ignorantly : at least all the folks who are anti federal land

 

[HighUintas]

I understand that for many who are financially motivated (like my wife's boss and others she's worked for) there's never really an end for the question of "when is it enough". No amount of money is ever enough.

https://senate.utah.gov/utah-ranked...h,Laffer State Economic Competitiveness Index.

So, why is Utah's state government so hell bent on the ability to sell off federal public land to make money? They do exceptionally well balancing the budget without it.

With the huge amount of tech companies, money, highly skilled and qualified workforce, Utah's geography and location of the metropolitan areas, existing outdoor recreation opportunities and potential outdoor rec tourism, I think the state is in a unique position where we could be the leader in best environmental practices, the leader in energy efficiency, leader in new technologies for those items, all while boosting it's revenue from out of state money.

It doesn't make sense to me.

Speaking of southern Utah, it's historic distrust of the federal government and the sage brush rebellion history.... I came through southern Utah (Monticello) on a road trip before moving here. I stopped at either a FS office or BLM office on my way into the Blue Mountains to ask about the roads through the mountains and canyons and which might be navigable with the vehicle I had at the time.

The ranger I spoke with was incredibly helpful. He was a super nice guy, told me about a few really neat places in the dark canyon wilderness to check out on my way through the area, and generally seemed like one of those older guys it would be fun to have a beer with and chat about the outdoors for awhile. I don't remember why it came up, possibly because he wasn't wearing any kind of formal work clothing at all that indicated he was a federal agency servant, but I remember him telling me about how most people around there really dislike the forest service and BLM and it's better for him to dress more casually or inconspicuously while he's working. I thought it really strange at the time because I had no knowledge of the history.

After moving out here 9 years ago, learning the history of the place and educating myself a bit.... It all makes sense now.

If you're ever in SE Utah, check out the dark canyon wilderness. It's a pretty cool place to explore. I enjoy it more than all of the NPs here.

 

[Idaboy]

Is there a middle ground in this debate of federal lands?.....I guess I just don't get why states feel entitled to federal land...the US government gave them land to start a state, and kept some for themselves.....unless you have land that a highway runs through or some major utility, I don't see private citizens having to sell or give land back to state or federal gov on any regular basis or on a large scale like these lawsuits seek......good luck to individual states paying for the forest fire when it starts

 

[CJ19]

This lawsuit is all but dead already. Im sure the bunch of people making money off "muh conservation" content will keep trying to breath life into it.

 

[mtwarden]

The Supreme Court hasn't said yet if they'll hear the lawsuit (they went straight to the Supreme Court declaring an "emergency") and they haven't dropped it, so not dead.

Regardless, the folks pushing for the disposal of federal lands are far from done.

 

[CorbLand]

That’s the elephant in the room that it seems like everyone ignores, willfully or ignorantly : at least all the folks who are anti federal land

It’s willful at this point. It’s literally in the press release about the lawsuit that they want property taxes and the only way to get property taxes is to privatize the ground.