UPS Strike

[HairyScandinavian]

I’m showing that the world around the latest generation got radically more expensive extremely fast and the generation above them has their hands over their ears screaming about hard work when they lived a great life with a highschool diploma, brainwashed their children into an overpriced degree and then called them commies for asking for a pay rise when they couldn’t afford the same small home their parents bought in the 70s.

Omg why are kids not buying homes anymore, omg why are they not buying 20k dollar wedding rings, omg why can’t they pay 100k in state tuition with a side job waiting tables on Friday night why are these millennials wanting the same life I lived?!

They need to shut up strap up their boots and become a useless middle manager like I did. The idea that they should work hard and then get promoted to not being a laborer establishes the idea that if you’re still a laborer(which is literally required to make the world work) you don’t deserve to afford to raise a family. Which is imo absurd.

You complain about inflation, then your solution is to do things like overpay part time unskilled labor positions that literally contribute to inflation. Part time unskilled labor isn't supposed to put your kids through college, work hard and move up if that's what you need.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

So which WKR is going to start their own global shipping/delivery company to show DHL, FedEx, UPS, etc how to do it competitively and provide their employees all the awesome benefits they so richly deserve?

Lots of self-professed business experts here so put your money where your mouth is.

 

[dirtytough]

So which WKR is going to start their own global shipping/delivery company to show DHL, FedEx, UPS, etc how to do it competitively and provide their employees all the awesome benefits they so richly deserve?

Lots of self-professed business experts here so put your money where your mouth is.

I was wondering the same thing. They can easily make $20 mil a year and work less than 40 hours a week.

 

[JFK]

Unions put workers on equal footing with management. That’s why management hates them. Simple as that. You can track the decline in US union membership with the decline of the middle class. Simultaneously, executive salaries have sky rocketed. The Koch brothers and the like have done a good job of convincing people they are better off without unions, but the numbers in real (inflation adjusted) numbers tell a different story. Non union workers benefit indirectly by the existence of unions, as they help to set a going rate for a given job. Without unions many non union employees would be getting paid far less. Paying people a decent wage doesn’t cost society money. Companies give it to them in salary so they can live, or they end up on government subsidies and you and I pay for it.….yet another form of corporate welfare.

 

[Jimbee]

Some of the comments on this thread clearly show that the posters do not understand how a successful business is run. Shareholders are EVERTHING. You need to make them happy.

I'm pretty sure a company with 380,000(?) truck drivers can't function without them and I'm pretty sure the raises and air conditioners in the new trucks aren't going to bankrupt UPS. Yeah, the shareholders probably don't like a smaller piece of pie. Hopefully folks that turn the wrenches and drive the trucks are starting to understand their worth again.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

I'm pretty sure a company with 380,000(?) truck drivers can't function without them and I'm pretty sure the raises and air conditioners in the new trucks aren't going to bankrupt UPS. Yeah, the shareholders probably don't like a smaller piece of pie. Hopefully folks that turn the wrenches and drive the trucks are starting to understand their worth again.

We've read in this thread that some of those drivers make six figures already. I believe the pay was the part timers who're mostly loaders in the warehouse, somebody correct that if it's wrong. I don't know how many loaders they have, but I'm sure all the hundreds of thousands with shiny new work visas would be happy to fill in for half what they're currently getting paid. That's the problem with being an unskilled laborer, there's always a body waiting in line to take your spot and it's not difficult to fill it, those positions aren't designed to be highly paid, nor are burger flippers at McDonald's.

 

[Jimbee]

We've read in this thread that some of those drivers make six figures already. I believe the pay was the part timers who're mostly loaders in the warehouse, somebody correct that if it's wrong. I don't know how many loaders they have, but I'm sure all the hundreds of thousands with shiny new work visas would be happy to fill in for half what they're currently getting paid. That's the problem with being an unskilled laborer, there's always a body waiting in line to take your spot and it's not difficult to fill it, those positions aren't designed to be highly paid, nor are burger flippers at McDonald's.

I think those unskilled bodies waiting in line to get paid less don't actually exist. And who designed these jobs to not be highly paid?

 

[HairyScandinavian]

I think those unskilled bodies waiting in line to get paid less don't actually exist. And who designed these jobs to not be highly paid?

The market determines it, when literally anyone with a pulse can do your job you're at the bottom. That's the way life works.
edit: ...and to preempt the inevitable replies, I've worked plenty of bottom rung jobs including a brief time at a warehouse gig when I was younger. I understand what it all entails.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Unions put workers on equal footing with management. That’s why management hates them. Simple as that. You can track the decline in US union membership with the decline of the middle class. Simultaneously, executive salaries have sky rocketed. The Koch brothers and the like have done a good job of convincing people they are better off without unions, but the numbers in real (inflation adjusted) numbers tell a different story. Non union workers benefit indirectly by the existence of unions, as they help to set a going rate for a given job. Without unions many non union employees would be getting paid far less. Paying people a decent wage doesn’t cost society money. Companies give it to them in salary so they can live, or they end up on government subsidies and you and I pay for it.….yet another form of corporate welfare.

No, it does not, especially with UPS. Lemme splain to you how UPS works.

You get to choose your route based off seniority, so the most senior driver there gets the first pick of the routes. So the senior employee can pick the best paying route, but guess what... They don't actually have to do that route, they put drivers without seniority on that route and they bounce around on easier routes while getting paid for the other route. Do you think that's fair? It's not, but that's how UPS works. When I lived in VA the driver who had my route was that was and it was always a sub.

Explain to me how the union is helping the sub driver thats doing a harder route for less money than it actually pays...

If it weren't for their shitty union they wouldn't be in this mess, they are because the sub drivers aren't being paid what they should be for the work they're doing and they're pissed off over it all because a lot of senior drivers are gaming the system because the union allows them to.

 

[JFK]

No, it does not, especially with UPS. Lemme splain to you how UPS works.

You get to choose your route based off seniority, so the most senior driver there gets the first pick of the routes. So the senior employee can pick the best paying route, but guess what... They don't actually have to do that route, they put drivers without seniority on that route and they bounce around on easier routes while getting paid for the other route. Do you think that's fair? It's not, but that's how UPS works. When I lived in VA the driver who had my route was that was and it was always a sub.

Explain to me how the union is helping the sub driver thats doing a harder route for less money than it actually pays...

If it weren't for their shitty union they wouldn't be in this mess, they are because the sub drivers aren't being paid what they should be for the work they're doing and they're pissed off over it all because a lot of senior drivers are gaming the system because the union allows them to.

I am a firefighter and proud IAFF. I know about seniority. It’s not a perfect system. Never said it was, and have seen it work in ways it was not intended to. It sounds like your above example above could be remedied by rewording internal union by-laws, or the less senior guys suck it up and understand they will have the same program once they get some years under their belt. In any case, it’s not compelling enough to argue that they’d be better off without their union.

 

[Jimbee]

No, it does not, especially with UPS. Lemme splain to you how UPS works.

You get to choose your route based off seniority, so the most senior driver there gets the first pick of the routes. So the senior employee can pick the best paying route, but guess what... They don't actually have to do that route, they put drivers without seniority on that route and they bounce around on easier routes while getting paid for the other route. Do you think that's fair? It's not, but that's how UPS works. When I lived in VA the driver who had my route was that was and it was always a sub.

Explain to me how the union is helping the sub driver thats doing a harder route for less money than it actually pays...

If it weren't for their shitty union they wouldn't be in this mess, they are because the sub drivers aren't being paid what they should be for the work they're doing and they're pissed off over it all because a lot of senior drivers are gaming the system because the union allows them to.

I'm not really sure what you're talking about with the higher paid routes. My understanding is that UPS delivery folks are paid hourly.

 

[KsRancher]

For you union guys and gals, dont take this personal. This is just my opinion. As mentioned above by someone. I can't imagine threatening to or actually bringing a big company to its knees because you don't think your getting what you're worth or what your owed. I see it as if you are truly worth what you are asking then someone would be willing to pay you that. Supply and demand works in the job market also. If you can't get what you think your worth on your own, your probably not worth that much.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I'm not really sure what you're talking about with the higher paid routes. My understanding is that UPS delivery folks are paid hourly.

Part time drivers are paid hourly, the full time drivers are paid based on the route.

 

[Jimbee]

For you union guys and gals, dont take this personal. This is just my opinion. As mentioned above by someone. I can't imagine threatening to or actually bringing a big company to its knees because you don't think your getting what you're worth or what your owed. I see it as if you are truly worth what you are asking then someone would be willing to pay you that. Supply and demand works in the job market also. If you can't get what you think your worth on your own, your probably not worth that much.

Do you think employers like UPS are just going to occasionally decide to pay employees more without negotiation or knowing that employees can get better pay somewhere else?

 

[wind gypsy]

I'm sure there is a portion of the part time workers that only want part time. The majority would love a full time job with benefits and pay enough to buy a house and raise a family. I can assure you they work hard enough to deserve such a thing. These worthless corporations use temporary and part time as a way to avoid having to pony up. And guys still on here defending them. All so the ceo can say hey look at me, I made the shareholders another 8.6 Billion dollars this year!!!

I'm curious about the 8.6 billion for shareholders. Is that just in market cap growth? Market cap growth + dividends? Not used to looking at things this way.

8.6 Billion on a Market cap of 158 Billion is what like 5.5%? Doesn't seem crazy.

Not making an argument to burn the employees for the benefit of shareholders by any stretch, just checking to see if I understand the #'s you're pointing out.

 

[KsRancher]

All big companies don't just get together and say "okay, this $xxx is what we are all going to pay our employees". If a company is losing employees and is needing more to keep business going. Then they have to pay more to get them. If the company down the road is paying more then people will gravitate that way which will cause others to match or beat it to get employees. Like I said "supply and demand". There is always someone willing to pay a little more. But unionization of a company and then threatening them is something I can't wrap my mind around.

 

[Jimbee]

All big companies don't just get together and say "okay, this $xxx is what we are all going to pay our employees". If a company is losing employees and is needing more to keep business going. Then they have to pay more to get them. If the company down the road is paying more then people will gravitate that way which will cause others to match or beat it to get employees. Like I said "supply and demand". There is always someone willing to pay a little more. But unionization of a company and then threatening them is something I can't wrap my mind around.

OK. Let's say a big shipping company is making lots of money and fully staffed. Employee pay is falling behind inflation, increased cost of living, etc. Employees say, "Hey, I think we should get a raise", company says Nah, can't afford it. Then what? Workers organize and demand better pay. Simple.

 

[11boo]

For you union guys and gals, dont take this personal. This is just my opinion. As mentioned above by someone. I can't imagine threatening to or actually bringing a big company to its knees because you don't think you’re getting what you're worth or what you’re owed. I see it as if you are truly worth what you are asking then someone would be willing to pay you that. Supply and demand works in the job market also. If you can't get what you think you’re worth on your own, you’re probably not worth that much.

That was my take on the IBEW. I left them, because I was topped out in their pay scale, and doing work that was way above their pay scale.

Went to a merit based shop that started me at my union wage. My first day the owner told me if I was half as good as I claimed that wage would be negotiable.

He also told me if I was full of BS about my skill set I would not last long. Within a year he and I started a new shop, focused on controls and instrumentation.
Just me and two other guys, one was from my old local. 10 months later I had 10 more guys hired.

Heck I should thank the union for driving me to my success by treating me like every other electrician.

 

[KsRancher]

OK. Let's say a big shipping company is making lots of money and fully staffed. Employee pay is falling behind inflation, increased cost of living, etc. Employees say, "Hey, I think we should get a raise", company says Nah, can't afford it. Then what? Then each man/woman individually goes out and gets that job somewhere that pays what they want with raises and so on.


There I fixed it how I see it. I can't wrap my mind going to place and asking for a job and then demanding that they pay $xxxx or will organize and shut you down.

 

[KsRancher]

That was my take on the IBEW. I left them, because I was topped out in their pay scale, and doing work that was way above their pay scale.

Went to a merit based shop that started me at my union wage. My first day the owner told me if I was half as good as I claimed that wage would be negotiable.

He also told me if I was full of BS about my skill set I would not last long. Within a year he and I started a new shop, focused on controls and instrumentation.
Just me and two other guys, one was from my old local. 10 months later I had 10 more guys hired.

Heck I should thank the union for driving me to my success by treating me like every other electrician.

That's what I am talking about right here