UPS Strike

[Lawnboi]

Part time drivers are paid hourly, the full time drivers are paid based on the route.

Not here they are not.

The part time work is some of the hardest physical labor Iv ever done, and that was back in college.

 

[KurtR]

No, it does not, especially with UPS. Lemme splain to you how UPS works.

You get to choose your route based off seniority, so the most senior driver there gets the first pick of the routes. So the senior employee can pick the best paying route, but guess what... They don't actually have to do that route, they put drivers without seniority on that route and they bounce around on easier routes while getting paid for the other route. Do you think that's fair? It's not, but that's how UPS works. When I lived in VA the driver who had my route was that was and it was always a sub.

Explain to me how the union is helping the sub driver thats doing a harder route for less money than it actually pays...

If it weren't for their shitty union they wouldn't be in this mess, they are because the sub drivers aren't being paid what they should be for the work they're doing and they're pissed off over it all because a lot of senior drivers are gaming the system because the union allows them to.

When did they start that my father in law just retired after 30 years and that is not how it works at all. After reading this he got a good chuckle.

 

[dtrkyman]

Relunctantly just shipped UPS, figured it was ahead of potential problems and it was. No issues with tracking updates as per usual.

 

[Warmsy]

Or you just work at bettering yourself and become a skilled worker so you’re actually more valuable to an employer and they will in turn pay you more.

Of course, that takes time and effort on someone’s part without immediate gratification. It’s becoming exceedingly difficult to find individuals in todays workforce that are capable of putting in the effort to actually EARN those higher wages. They seem to truly believe they’re entitled to high wages just for showing up and punching a time clock.

Likely a result of the excessive screen time and consumption of social media from a very young age of those entering the work force now. They’ve no doubt been subjected to all the progressive propaganda and ridiculous messages being pushed on those platforms. Livable wages for all for example. Actual mature thinking individuals know that concept is absolutely asinine but the 12-17 yo demographic that stare at phones all day without parental supervision do not so they believe livable wages for all is doable when they begin to enter the workforce. I blame their crappy parents for their initial naivety and lack of work ethic as they enter the working world.

Now, if an individual is already an adult with some responsibilities and they still believe this type of stuff i don’t know what to tell someone like that other than theyre going to have a rough go of it until they learn the world doesn’t owe them anything they need to earn what they need/want.

As an adult with responsibilities, I'd like to change careers and do something other than construction. Been looking at different jobs and talking to folks... It sucks knowing I'd make like a quarter of construction wages changing careers. Lots of things I'd like to do/try, but man the thought of making younger me wages is awful! I guess I'm glad I fell into construction and loved it for a time.

 

[MightyWhitey]

I don’t understand you non-union guys reasoning. So you’re ok with people leaving the company to find better working conditions, but you’re not ok with the workers staying with the company, speaking in a collective voice, and negotiating with the company?

I left a non union electric cooperative to go to a neighboring union utility. The co-op said they couldn’t afford to pay me the rate the union offered me so I left. I took a demotion and got a $6hr raise. Within a year the coop gave everybody in the line dept a $5hr raise to keep guys from leaving and continues to keep up with the utilities rates.

I along with about 30 other guys left the union utility 12yrs later to go work outside construction out of a different local union hall for a $25hr raise and all overtime double time. That was 4yrs ago. Since then that utility has raised its hourly rate by about $20. They got a $9hr raise just this year. A couple years before I left our membership agreed to a 0% raise in the contract with the utility. The whole time the utility said they just can’t afford to give a raise of any sort.
I’m sure it’s just a coincidence but both times the poor ol company that’s barely making ends meet somehow found the money (which was way more than the union was asking for in negations) to pay guys that remained to keep them from leaving.

Do you non-union guys really just not believe that these big companies will do all they can to get as much out of you for as little pay as absolutely possible until you call their bluff??
What better example could I possibly give you?

Something else that just blows my mind is all the guys that cuss the union but still benefit from it second hand. The co-op had to raise its pay scale to compete with the rate that the union negotiated with the neighboring utility. None of those non union co-op guys refused that pay raise. Just like a buncha bare tailed, cheese eatin rat bastards. I’m sure they’re all just waiting in the dark rubbing their scrawny tail hoping to get some trickle down from the latest union utility raise. I think a lot of non union guys might change their mind if they all the sudden got the benefits taken away from them that a union fought to get. Brainwashed non-dues payin little parasites.

It puts me in tough spot politically because I think the Democratic Party is mostly evil reptilians. But after being on both sides I do whole heartedly believe everyone should have the right to organize. If you don’t need it, great. If you do need it, stand together and call their bluff.

 

[11boo]

None of those non union co-op guys refused that pay raise. Just like a buncha bare tailed, cheese eatin rat bastards. I’m sure they’re all just waiting in the dark rubbing their scrawny tail hoping to get some trickle down from the latest union utility raise.

Good point whitey. I got called all that, and more, from the super bros. Hell I even had threats of violence from the bros.
I was going to fail, and come crawling back to the hall for work.

Call me a rat bastard all you want, I retired at 54. And I control my investments in my retirement, and live well. Mostly I hated the fact that unions always support a party I despise. Yet you keep feeding the machine.

Have you been to the union “class” on making your vote count? I have. Plenty of beer and pizza Lol.

 

[MightyWhitey]

I totally understand being upset with their blind allegiance to the Democratic Party. There were big articles in the IBEW news letter about how they were in favor of vaccine mandates. That created an uproar with a lot of members and if I remember right there was talk of all members who were opposed setting down on the job on a specific day nation wide. So the members striking the union in a sense. The mandates never happened. I may have some details wrong about that, I was on my annual 6 month hunting vacation at the time, of which the IBEW allows me the opportunity to take.
Some benefit without the union. Many more benefit with it.

 

[11boo]

Four hundred and thirty members of International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 237 in Niagara and Orleans counties will receive a $32.2 million pension-fix payout, using funds from the American Rescue Plan.
Federal lawmakers announced the payments, three years in the making, on Thursday.

Our tax $, bailing out unions , due to their graft and corruption. Yes, you definitely benefit from it.
And most of that money is part of the employer provided benefit package, even a blind man could make money in the market, yet they lose bigly.

You are welcome

What is sad, is there are many more, benefitting from taxpayer funded bailouts.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

I don’t understand you non-union guys reasoning. So you’re ok with people leaving the company to find better working conditions, but you’re not ok with the workers staying with the company, speaking in a collective voice, and negotiating with the company?

I left a non union electric cooperative to go to a neighboring union utility. The co-op said they couldn’t afford to pay me the rate the union offered me so I left. I took a demotion and got a $6hr raise. Within a year the coop gave everybody in the line dept a $5hr raise to keep guys from leaving and continues to keep up with the utilities rates.

I along with about 30 other guys left the union utility 12yrs later to go work outside construction out of a different local union hall for a $25hr raise and all overtime double time. That was 4yrs ago. Since then that utility has raised its hourly rate by about $20. They got a $9hr raise just this year. A couple years before I left our membership agreed to a 0% raise in the contract with the utility. The whole time the utility said they just can’t afford to give a raise of any sort.
I’m sure it’s just a coincidence but both times the poor ol company that’s barely making ends meet somehow found the money (which was way more than the union was asking for in negations) to pay guys that remained to keep them from leaving.

Do you non-union guys really just not believe that these big companies will do all they can to get as much out of you for as little pay as absolutely possible until you call their bluff??
What better example could I possibly give you?

Something else that just blows my mind is all the guys that cuss the union but still benefit from it second hand. The co-op had to raise its pay scale to compete with the rate that the union negotiated with the neighboring utility. None of those non union co-op guys refused that pay raise. Just like a buncha bare tailed, cheese eatin rat bastards. I’m sure they’re all just waiting in the dark rubbing their scrawny tail hoping to get some trickle down from the latest union utility raise. I think a lot of non union guys might change their mind if they all the sudden got the benefits taken away from them that a union fought to get. Brainwashed non-dues payin little parasites.

It puts me in tough spot politically because I think the Democratic Party is mostly evil reptilians. But after being on both sides I do whole heartedly believe everyone should have the right to organize. If you don’t need it, great. If you do need it, stand together and call their bluff.

All that happens despite the unions. I'm in the IT field, specifically contracting world, and people skip around jobs every 1-2 years to get nice raises with each move until they're up to market rates or get comfortable otherwise. That's just the way it is. The people who work somewhere for 10 years always freak out to find out the new guy next to them that just got hired makes twice as much. That's the free market, you get paid what you're worth if you're bold enough to make moves.

 

[MightyWhitey]

What’s your point? That there’s greed at the upper level everywhere? I wouldn’t argue against that.

 

[MightyWhitey]

All that happens despite the unions. I'm in the IT field, specifically contracting world, and people skip around jobs every 1-2 years to get nice raises with each move until they're up to market rates or get comfortable otherwise. That's just the way it is. The people who work somewhere for 10 years always freak out to find out the new guy next to them that just got hired makes twice as much. That's the free market, you get paid what you're worth if you're bold enough to make moves.

So what’s wrong with staying where you’re at and negotiating as a whole for it?

 

[ScreamingPotato]

So what’s wrong with staying where you’re at and negotiating as a whole for it?

I just think it's a shit way to go about it constantly threatening to hurt the company and it's customers if you don't get your way when it's so easy to just do it the right way, problem is you have to have some value to do that and often times these striking employees have none which is why they have to resort to those tactics. You agreed to a pay amount for the job, if that's no longer acceptable to someone they're free to go do better rather than pitching a fit and rallying a bunch of other employees to strongarm tactics.

This is JMO and I'm fully aware it's not for everyone.

 

[Reburn]

So what’s wrong with staying where you’re at and negotiating as a whole for it?

You still dont get it.
Whats wrong with going to another company that pays more and has better benefits.

Do you guys really just not believe that these big companies will do all they can to get as much out of you for as little pay as absolutely possible until you call their bluff??

Sure they will.

But you proved yourself wrong. The neighboring coop that wasnt even in union negotiations had to raise their pay to market to keep from loosing guys. Key word they had to raise to market.

Fact is there is a market on what employees are worth.

Bunch of people here still dont know how inflation and economics work from a goverment level and a market level.

Calling people names and insulting them is beneath you. Your better then that.

 

[MightyWhitey]

I just think it's a shit way to go about it constantly threatening to hurt the company and it's customers if you don't get your way when it's so easy to just do it the right way, problem is you have to have some value to do that and often times these striking employees have none which is why they have to resort to those tactics. You agreed to a pay amount for the job, if that's no longer acceptable to someone they're free to go do better rather than pitching a fit and rallying a bunch of other employees to strongarm tactics.

This is JMO and I'm fully aware it's not for everyone.

So you’re under the assumption that the company just can’t afford to pay these crybabies that aren’t worth it any more money that what they already are?
The company was not hurt in both my personal examples, they just had to cut out a bigger piece of pie for their employees.

Why would you not want to have a voice and a seat at the table with the company when it comes to your pay, benefits and working conditions?? And a legal contract that both sides have to uphold once agreed upon??

Who is “constantly” threatening the company? If I remember right most of our contracts were three year contracts. So every three years each side set down to negotiate. And the vast majority of the time we lost more than we gained. Have you ever been a union member or are you just getting this view from the news?

 

[MightyWhitey]

You still dont get it.
Whats wrong with going to another company that pays more and has better benefits.



Sure they will.

But you proved yourself wrong. The neighboring coop that wasnt even in union negotiations had to raise their pay to market to keep from loosing guys. Key word they had to raise to market.

Fact is there is a market on what employees are worth.

Bunch of people here still dont know how inflation and economics work from a goverment level and a market level.

Calling people names and insulting them is beneath you. Your better then that.

There’s nothing wrong with leaving and going somewhere else. I did it.
And there’s nothing wrong with an organized negotiation. In my opinion it’s better for the company to pay the negotiated rate than to have employees leave, have temporary reduction in workforce, hire and train new people and then still have to raise your rate to keep up with the place your previous employees left you for.

How did I prove myself wrong? The co-op raised their rates to match the utility’s rates that the union bargained for. If there’s no union to negotiate a higher rate, then there’s no higher rate to have to match. The union created the higher wage.
But beyond all that, the bigger point being the co-op had the money in its pocket all along and wouldn’t pay it until they had to.

It seems like we’re both having a hard time understanding how the other is missing such obvious points. What’s going on here ha??

Ok, sorry, it wasn’t aimed at any individual. But I do feel that way about people that talk bad about a group that fought for benifits they are currently receiving.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

So you’re under the assumption that the company just can’t afford to pay these crybabies that aren’t worth it any more money that what they already are?
The company was not hurt in both my personal examples, they just had to cut out a bigger piece of pie for their employees.

Why would you not want to have a voice and a seat at the table with the company when it comes to your pay, benefits and working conditions?? And a legal contract that both sides have to uphold once agreed upon??

Who is “constantly” threatening the company? If I remember right most of our contracts were three year contracts. So every three years each side set down to negotiate. And the vast majority of the time we lost more than we gained. Have you ever been a union member or are you just getting this view from the news?

Sorry, I was rude and I apologize. Having a few beers watching world cup kickball.

I think if someone has value they can easily achieve it without holding their employer and it's customers hostage, that's all I'm saying. It's not about whether a company can afford it or not, mine could afford to pay me 1mil/yr without blinking an eye but that's irrelevant. People make themselves marketable with more skills or more work ethic, in the absence of those that's usually when we see these strikes.

 

[Reburn]

There’s nothing wrong with leaving and going somewhere else. I did it.
And there’s nothing wrong with an organized negotiation. In my opinion it’s better for the company to pay the negotiated rate than to have employees leave, have temporary reduction in workforce, hire and train new people and then still have to raise your rate to keep up with the place your previous employees left you for.

How did I prove myself wrong? The co-op raised their rates to match the utility’s rates that the union bargained for. If there’s no union to negotiate a higher rate, then there’s no higher rate to have to match. The union created the higher wage.
But beyond all that, the bigger point being the co-op had the money in its pocket all along and wouldn’t pay it until they had to.

It seems like we’re both having a hard time understanding how the other is missing such obvious points. What’s going on here ha??

Ok, sorry, it wasn’t aimed at any individual. But I do feel that way about people that talk bad about a group that fought for benifits they are currently receiving.

As a company owner it’s infuriating to an employee who can’t manage to show up to work "not too high" and on time to try and hold me hostage for more pay because he wants it.


The whole we will walk out and strike turns me off. Just leave then. There is no need for theatrics. You want to negotiate cool, explain to me with facts why you’re worth more. No need for threats though. The threat is you will go elsewhere if you don’t get what your searching for.

You proved my point is the market will bear what the market will bear. Y’all didn’t just make up $ for the negotiations. I'm sure the union did a national market analysis to prove their worth. The union didn’t create a higher wage. It was already there they just argued for it.

We are missing each other’s points. You are off on IBEW skilled sparkys and the topic was UPS and unskilled part time manual labor pay.

I take great issue with a high school dropout with a heartbeat trying to negotiate for a living wage. you make bad decisions you reap the consequences. If you make bad choices life is supposed to be hard. You can change your fate at any time with hard work and an education. Nope I do not believe all people have the same worth. Nope I do not believe that someone that is working an entry job should be comfortable enough to make it a career / living wage. How do you feel about someone that did not graduate high school getting handed a living wage. Didn’t you have to work to earn your wage?

 

[MightyWhitey]

Man I don’t know what union your company has a contract with, but that’s grounds for termination everywhere I’ve been.

You guys are making it sound like these people just up and decide strike after lunch any given day of the week. Our membership has to vote to strike and that talk only came up when the company refused to negotiate on a new contract (every three years).

So are you trying to say that the “market” wage would be at the level it’s at without a union negotiating it? Surely you don’t believe that? So yes, the union is responsible for it being where it is.

And you’re right, I got off on IBEW just in defense of the union bashing in general.

No, I don’t think moving boxes is worth as much has handling high voltage. I’m not saying your entry level job should be a career.

But I do think if any work group wants to organize they should have the right to negotiate those conditions. If it bothers you so bad let them all walk and hire some new ones. Problem solved. We probably agree on more than we don’t.

 

[KsRancher]

I don’t understand you non-union guys reasoning. So you’re ok with people leaving the company to find better working conditions, but you’re not ok with the workers staying with the company, speaking in a collective voice, and negotiating with the company?

I left a non union electric cooperative to go to a neighboring union utility. The co-op said they couldn’t afford to pay me the rate the union offered me so I left. I took a demotion and got a $6hr raise. Within a year the coop gave everybody in the line dept a $5hr raise to keep guys from leaving and continues to keep up with the utilities rates.

I along with about 30 other guys left the union utility 12yrs later to go work outside construction out of a different local union hall for a $25hr raise and all overtime double time. That was 4yrs ago. Since then that utility has raised its hourly rate by about $20. They got a $9hr raise just this year. A couple years before I left our membership agreed to a 0% raise in the contract with the utility. The whole time the utility said they just can’t afford to give a raise of any sort.
I’m sure it’s just a coincidence but both times the poor ol company that’s barely making ends meet somehow found the money (which was way more than the union was asking for in negations) to pay guys that remained to keep them from leaving.

Do you non-union guys really just not believe that these big companies will do all they can to get as much out of you for as little pay as absolutely possible until you call their bluff??
What better example could I possibly give you?

Something else that just blows my mind is all the guys that cuss the union but still benefit from it second hand. The co-op had to raise its pay scale to compete with the rate that the union negotiated with the neighboring utility. None of those non union co-op guys refused that pay raise. Just like a buncha bare tailed, cheese eatin rat bastards. I’m sure they’re all just waiting in the dark rubbing their scrawny tail hoping to get some trickle down from the latest union utility raise. I think a lot of non union guys might change their mind if they all the sudden got the benefits taken away from them that a union fought to get. Brainwashed non-dues payin little parasites.

It puts me in tough spot politically because I think the Democratic Party is mostly evil reptilians. But after being on both sides I do whole heartedly believe everyone should have the right to organize. If you don’t need it, great. If you do need it, stand together and call their bluff.

If I understand how unions get started in company. Is it a negotiation or is it the workers strong arming the company into the union workforce? I am asking this as a question because I don't know exactly how it works. But I didn't think that UPS asked to have a union workforce. So that doesn't seem like a "negotiation" to me. Like the Amazon union vote. They tried like heck to unionize them. But Amazon has been able to hold them off.


And you proved my point on how supply and demand works to get workers more money. If someone down the road is paying more then the other companies will have to raise wages to compete. Doesnt matter if its a union or non union company. Competition is competition People getting more money for a wage isn't due the "union guys" helping them get it. I am sure there are instances like you mentioned that a union group has helped wages in a area. But I dount its as much as is thought by the union guys.

I may be way off base on this point. But couldn't the unions also be hurting the non union workers in the sense of driving up cost of goods and services? I mean UPS isn't just going to swallow the extra wage payout. Its getting passed on to the customer. I am not just talking about UPS either. Just think about everything you buy that is handled by and or made by union workers. The extra money that they negotiate for is payed for by the end user. Not the person paying the union worker.

 

[bozeman]

I just don't need another man or group to speak for me....I am my own man.......kinda like a grown man wearing a football or baseball jersey with some other mans name on it......I can speak for myself.