UPS Strike

[HuntHarder]

Your example is not one of free markets.

You left a private company (co-op) to work for a public utility. The utility will agree to nearly any union demand in negotiations because they are a government entity (state or municipality). Taxes will cover any shortfalls from service fees.

The co-op is a private corporation owned by the members (shareholders). The entire point of it is the membership controls their power at the lowest cost possible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Utilities will not agree to nearly anything.... Not all are Gov't entities.....

Nothing wrong with it, so long as it doesn’t hurt the “evil” business providing everyone’s living.

The idiocy is the notion of negotiating raises for everyone when 10% deserve them, 75% don’t deserve them and 15% deserve termination.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

75% don't deserve it? You sir are ignorant on the subject it seems. Broad brush painting gets no one anywhere and only continues to make you look more foolish. There are plenty of good unions and saying 75% of the union is basically trash is absurd. There are absolutely guys that get in the union and do not deserve to receive the same raise as everyone else. In my experience, that is by far the minority tho.

Pros's and Con's to unions, but bashing them and saying they are all bad is just ignorant. Tell some LEO or Fire or Teachers that their union is trash. Most will tell you how the union is a positive thing. Not all unions are "unskilled labor"

 

[Forestryguy]

Nothing says rugged individualism like opting out of paying union dues while still benefitting from their representation and pay raises.

As far as your questions about how unions get started in a company I can only speak from my personal experience in line work and it goes like this.
The company is treating its employees like shit, enough guys get sick of it and approach a local union hall representative about getting organized. They have meetings with the employees and usually about this time the company gets wind of it and starts its intimidation and fires a few people to try to scare the rest. if 51% of that workgroup agrees they want to bring in the union then that’s what happens. Then the process starts of negotiating a contract between the union/employees and the company. If that other 49% doesn’t want to join and pay dues they don’t have to. But, those that don’t join still reap all the rewards of this new contract the union and new members got them. And those people are called rats. I think they justify it by saying the “market” got them their raise and it’s just disguised as a contract agreement.

One thing that people don't always know is that you may decide to not join a Union at a workplace. But if you ever need their help with an issue the Union can charge you for their time and services that are provided. By the time you pay that bill you would be ahead to just pay dues. Several Postal workers that I worked with were die hard anti union till they figured out they were being screwed over by management. When they got told what the bill could be for representation, they joined the union pretty fast. Also saw a few guys try to be rats on the Railroad. They did not stick around long from management issues and the union putting their issues at a lower priority than dues paying members.

Minimum wages were started in 1938 under the Fair Labor Standards Act. The standard is suppose to be a wage that will pay for the needs of a family (unsure how that is defined), with ONE adult in the household working. This whole Act has been bastardized with politician being lobbied to not raise the wage to keep up with living costs so Buisness could have less payroll expenses. Then the Gov safety nets are cut so they can't assist in the ways they are meant to. They then blame the people that it is their fault they are poor and unable to succeed in life.

I don't necessarily agree with all govt safety nets and forced health care. But, people should be able to sleep at night knowing they can cover basic living expenses by going to work. Not getting screwed over by having to work 38-39 hours and not qualify for benefits and retirement.

 

[Dented]

Talked to my UPS driver tonight. He's happy about the wage increase, but was really excited about ac in the back of the truck. I get it that's got to be an oven back there in the summer.

 

[JFK]

One thing that people don't always know is that you may decide to not join a Union at a workplace. But if you ever need their help with an issue the Union can charge you for their time and services that are provided. By the time you pay that bill you would be ahead to just pay dues. Several Postal workers that I worked with were die hard anti union till they figured out they were being screwed over by management. When they got told what the bill could be for representation, they joined the union pretty fast. Also saw a few guys try to be rats on the Railroad. They did not stick around long from management issues and the union putting their issues at a lower priority than dues paying members.

Minimum wages were started in 1938 under the Fair Labor Standards Act. The standard is suppose to be a wage that will pay for the needs of a family (unsure how that is defined), with ONE adult in the household working. This whole Act has been bastardized with politician being lobbied to not raise the wage to keep up with living costs so Buisness could have less payroll expenses. Then the Gov safety nets are cut so they can't assist in the ways they are meant to. They then blame the people that it is their fault they are poor and unable to succeed in life.

I don't necessarily agree with all govt safety nets and forced health care. But, people should be able to sleep at night knowing they can cover basic living expenses by going to work. Not getting screwed over by having to work 38-39 hours and not qualify for benefits and retirement.

You are correct. After the Janus court case, gov’t agency workers have the right to not pay dues and still be represented. Zero people at my local have chosen to do this, and frankly, it’s the most chicken shit thing a person can do.

 

[william schmaltz]

I was ready to let this ship sail until the DNC crowd couldn’t resist calling guys that want to work in a specific field and stand behind their own work without giving a portion of their check to the politicians that hate our way of life and wish to own our children a bunch of names. Ya, when I think of guys not willing to sell out their morals for potentially earning an extra buck an hour, I certainly think of that man as a “rat”. I will never sell out my children’s and country’s future for money. Never. Forget about it.

Call us all the names you want, that type of behavior practically reinforces what we already know about ya. Maybe some self reflection is in order fellas. Or maybe at the very least try a different approach. I hope you guys aren’t the ones out there trying to reason for hunting rights with them tactics or we’re all screwed!

As far as your questions about how unions get started in a company I can only speak from my personal experience in line work and it goes like this.
The company is treating its employees like shit, enough guys get sick of it and approach a local union hall representative about getting organized. They have meetings with the employees and usually about this time the company gets wind of it and starts its intimidation and fires a few people to try to scare the rest. if 51% of that workgroup agrees they want to bring in the union then that’s what happens. Then the process starts of negotiating a contract between the union/employees and the company. If that other 49% doesn’t want to join and pay dues they don’t have to. But, those that don’t join still reap all the rewards of this new contract the union and new members got them. And those people are called rats. I think they justify it by saying the “market” got them their raise and it’s just disguised as a contract agreement.

We're beyond parody at this point. This from the union handbook or the Democratic Socialist of America handbook?

What to do if you don't get your way ANTIFA/Union handbook Chapter 1:
1. Form an angry and entitled mob
2. Throw a tantrum together until you get your way.
3. If people respectfully decide not to agree with you and not join your group, don’t listen to their moral reasoning. Now is a good time to try name calling.
4. When coworkers and employers don't agree with you, call them names and ostracize them until they think like you do! This step never works, but you will feel better about yourself, ya tough guy!
5. Remember, independent thinkers are the enemy. Strength in numbers!

Reads like a slide at a BLM meeting.

Saw my UPS guy tonight. Truly a great man and happy for him that he got a raise. Dude is always working late with a friendly smile. Also glad he’s close to retirement because I’m sure his Union will continue to push his employer to turning him into a robot within the next decade.

I had a bunch of buddies that were hardcore Union. All worked in coal mines and coal fired power plants. They started to see the light when Hillary stood on stage and said that she was going to shut them all down and then a week later their unions endorsed her/wrote her a check. It came full circle when they paid for Joe Biden to be elected 4 years later and now get to watch plant after plant take a dirt nap. Turns out when you feed the alligators (unions/Democratic party), they don’t become your friend; they just eat you last.

 

[2531usmc]

Utilities will not agree to nearly anything.... Not all are Gov't entities.....

75% don't deserve it? You sir are ignorant on the subject it seems. Broad brush painting gets no one anywhere and only continues to make you look more foolish. There are plenty of good unions and saying 75% of the union is basically trash is absurd. There are absolutely guys that get in the union and do not deserve to receive the same raise as everyone else. In my experience, that is by far the minority tho.

Pros's and Con's to unions, but bashing them and saying they are all bad is just ignorant. Tell some LEO or Fire or Teachers that their union is trash. Most will tell you how the union is a positive thing. Not all unions are "unskilled labor"

The teachers union is trash. They were the main driver behind shutting down the public schools for Covid while the private schools kept on teaching in person. And oh by the way, the teachers union wants teachers to decide(not the parents) that you child should be castrated and mutilated because they know your child is really trans.


the teachers union has basically destroyed the public school system in America. It’s becoming indoctrination and not education.

 

[MightyWhitey]

I was ready to let this ship sail until the DNC crowd couldn’t resist calling guys that want to work in a specific field and stand behind their own work without giving a portion of their check to the politicians that hate our way of life and wish to own our children a bunch of names. Ya, when I think of guys not willing to sell out their morals for potentially earning an extra buck an hour, I certainly think of that man as a “rat”. I will never sell out my children’s and country’s future for money. Never. Forget about it.

Call us all the names you want, that type of behavior practically reinforces what we already know about ya. Maybe some self reflection is in order fellas. Or maybe at the very least try a different approach. I hope you guys aren’t the ones out there trying to reason for hunting rights with them tactics or we’re all screwed!

We're beyond parody at this point. This from the union handbook or the Democratic Socialist of America handbook?

What to do if you don't get your way ANTIFA/Union handbook Chapter 1:
1. Form an angry and entitled mob
2. Throw a tantrum together until you get your way.
3. If people respectfully decide not to agree with you and not join your group, don’t listen to their moral reasoning. Now is a good time to try name calling.
4. When coworkers and employers don't agree with you, call them names and ostracize them until they think like you do! This step never works, but you will feel better about yourself, ya tough guy!
5. Remember, independent thinkers are the enemy. Strength in numbers!

Reads like a slide at a BLM meeting.

Saw my UPS guy tonight. Truly a great man and happy for him that he got a raise. Dude is always working late with a friendly smile. Also glad he’s close to retirement because I’m sure his Union will continue to push his employer to turning him into a robot within the next decade.

I had a bunch of buddies that were hardcore Union. All worked in coal mines and coal fired power plants. They started to see the light when Hillary stood on stage and said that she was going to shut them all down and then a week later their unions endorsed her/wrote her a check. It came full circle when they paid for Joe Biden to be elected 4 years later and now get to watch plant after plant take a dirt nap. Turns out when you feed the alligators (unions/Democratic party), they don’t become your friend; they just eat you last.

William, I agree with you in full about the democratic party and I totally understand your reasoning. I don’t vote democrat, I think they’re guilty of way more evil than they are good and it’s seems to only be getting worse.

I guess I’m defending the spirit and principle of collective bargaining and you guys are hung up on political affiliation and the other crazy things that party supports.

I really don’t have a big issue with people working within a union trade but aren’t members. The co-op I started at was non union and still is. That’s why they make less and don’t have the benefits, working conditions or training that I do now. If they’re ok with that, then carry on. Sure they get some second hand trickle down, but that’s the ol market, so be it.

The big issue is with guys that are working under a union negotiated contract and taking all the rewards of it without being a member. That is just wrong. If you’re anti union enough not to join, that’s ok, just don’t accept anything within that contract that the membership bargained for, you didn’t bargain for it, the people you don’t like did all that. And if the company won’t pay you less or restrict your benifits because of some payroll technical headache, then go find a non union company to work for, no hard feelings or name calling.

It’s a shame that this is so political and it kinda seems like it was setup this way intentionally from the start to guarantee us bitching with each other. I bet you and I agree on more than we don’t.

 

[realunlucky]

The teachers union is trash. They were the main driver behind shutting down the public schools for Covid while the private schools kept on teaching in person. And oh by the way, the teachers union wants teachers to decide(not the parents) that you child should be castrated and mutilated because they know your child is really trans.


the teachers union has basically destroyed the public school system in America. It’s becoming indoctrination and not education.

How can you get the best candidates for teaching when you don't want to invest more money into the program?

Do you want to be a teacher? Of course not it's a hard thankless job that doesn't pay.

Easy to point the finger of blame while your bitching about having to pay more taxes.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

 

[KsRancher]

As far as your questions about how unions get started in a company I can only speak from my personal experience in line work and it goes like this.
The company is treating its employees like shit, enough guys get sick of it and approach a local union hall representative about getting organized. They have meetings with the employees and usually about this time the company gets wind of it and starts its intimidation and fires a few people to try to scare the rest. if 51% of that workgroup agrees they want to bring in the union then that’s what happens. Then the process starts of negotiating a contract between the union/employees and the company. If that other 49% doesn’t want to join and pay dues they don’t have to. But, those that don’t join still reap all the rewards of this new contract the union and new members got them. And those people are called rats. I think they justify it by saying the “market” got them their raise and it’s just disguised as a contract agreement.

Ok. That's how I understood it happens. But I can't see how it's called a negotiation when the newly voted union can't be fired and the company stay non-union. The company is getting "strong armed" not negotiated with in my opinion.

As far your political thoughts on the whole thing, I agree. Just because you you don't vote democrat doesn't mean you can't like union. I primary vote republican. But don't always agree with their stance on everything.

 

[MightyWhitey]

Ok. That's how I understood it happens. But I can't see how it's called a negotiation when the newly voted union can't be fired and the company stay non-union. The company is getting "strong armed" not negotiated with in my opinion.

As far your political thoughts on the whole thing, I agree. Just because you you don't vote democrat doesn't mean you can't like union. I primary vote republican. But don't always agree with their stance on everything.

The union can be “fired”. I don’t remember the terminology but the company can request a vote to see if there is still a minimum of 51% in favor of the union being involved. If that vote is not majority the union goes away. So it’s up to the work force.

 

[4090Sharps]

As far your political thoughts on the whole thing, I agree. Just because you you don't vote democrat doesn't mean you can't like union. I primary vote republican. But don't always agree with their stance on everything.

It's a shame the Republicans are so anti-union, were it not for that hang up, I think the party could truly become the party of the working class. I don't really think the Democrats are any more either, but they used to be far more so.

Short anecdote, I went to one of the Trump rallies very early in 2016 in a strong union town with multiple union-supported industries. The crowd was whipped up in typical rally fashion, then Trump spent 2-3 minutes completely trashing unions and union workers. The air left the room of thousands. It was truly something to behold, and I had the perfect view, sitting directly behind him. Realizing he had lost the crowd, he shifted back to a Hillary topic and regained the energy. But damn, those couple minutes were uncomfortable. He still went on to carry the county handily in the primary that followed, I was a bit surprised.

 

[KsRancher]

The union can be “fired”. I don’t remember the terminology but the company can request a vote to see if there is still a minimum of 51% in favor of the union being involved. If that vote is not majority the union goes away. So it’s up to the work force.

IMO it shouldn't be up to the workforce to to have a union. It should be up to both. If the employees vote for a union and the company says "no" then no union. I think a company should have that say about their business

 

[MightyWhitey]

IMO it shouldn't be up to the workforce to to have a union. It should be up to both. If the employees vote for a union and the company says "no" then no union. I think a company should have that say about their business

Buddy, cmon. A company that’s pissed off its workers enough for them to seek representation would never vote in favor of that. Look back in history just a little ways to see just how far unchecked company’s will go to make a bigger profit. Do you think that greed just disappeared after slavery and child labor?

 

[RS3579]

IBEW? Best thing I ever did was bail on them. Made bank in a merit shop.
The BAs were taking bribes in the form of safaris and Alaska trips to put our money in bad investments, and they took a big dump.

What local?

 

[KsRancher]

Buddy, cmon. A company that’s pissed off its workers enough for them to seek representation would never vote in favor of that. Look back in history just a little ways to see just how far unchecked company’s will go to make a bigger profit. Do you think that greed just disappeared after slavery and child labor?

I could get on board with workers "organizing" in this manner. Let's say that the employees get together and agree that they need more money/benefits or whatever. And they take their wants/needs to the company and say "we need this or we are walking". I believe that the company should have the say in whether they pay it or they let them go. But I can't get on board with workers being able to unionize and hold the company hostage. And by hostage l mean. Not being able to tell the workers "No thanks, your fired" and hire more workers. Yes, they will probably have to pay more money to get employees to keep business going or not have employees and not be able to keep business going.

But I believe it should be on the company to decide if they want too. I don't think workers should be able to get together and legally keep a company from replacing them to keep their business going.

 

[traildust]

I’ll give you one guess.

Does your union endorse those folks?

It amazing to me that union hands don't have a voice in who their union leaders throw their support behind.

 

[MightyWhitey]

I could get on board with workers "organizing" in this manner. Let's say that the employees get together and agree that they need more money/benefits or whatever. And they take their wants/needs to the company and say "we need this or we are walking". I believe that the company should have the say in whether they pay it or they let them go. But I can't get on board with workers being able to unionize and hold the company hostage. And by hostage l mean. Not being able to tell the workers "No thanks, your fired" and hire more workers. Yes, they will probably have to pay more money to get employees to keep business going or not have employees and not be able to keep business going.

But I believe it should be on the company to decide if they want too. I don't think workers should be able to get together and legally keep a company from replacing them to keep their business going.

The company has the right to replace striking workers with temps or contractors.

 

[KsRancher]

The company has the right to replace striking workers with temps or contractors.

So when workers unionize. The company can tell the union to pound sand and not have a union workforce?

 

[flatlanderhuffandpuff]

As a long as a union doesn't try to have me killed for doing the job they didn't want I don't have a problem with them.

My uncle has stories of actually riding shotgun with his business partner during the nationwide teamsters strike and needing to point it at a car of truckers who were attempting to disrupt their load while moving. Should have left the lot of them in a ditch with a warning sign.

Public sector unions shouldn't be a thing. From Police to teachers the public is losing.

UPS workers work hard and I'm glad they are able to get a raise. It's not a job I would choose to do but I am glad they aren't striking.

 

[MightyWhitey]

So when workers unionize. The company can tell the union to pound sand and not have a union workforce?

They can replace a vacancy with whoever they want. I meant specifically in the instance of a strike they can replace all those people with temps or contractors.

In the case of the utility I worked for our local wasn’t strong enough to strike so the guys that left, got fired, retired etc got replaced with (cover your eyes) rat contractors. They thought they had it all figured out until those contractors started having accidents, burning wire down and killing themselves. Then the company raised its wage to attract permanent employees and brought on more union contractors. Which decreased the death and destruction rate.

Off subject. But if any of you non union guys have friends or family interested in becoming a lineman, you should incourage them to do it through the IBEW. They’ll have a much better chance at survival at the very least.