Trump goes all KGB on EPA

[JWP58]

We actually can fathom it, as we measure it.....

Everyone on this board will most likely be dead before we find out for sure, but I will go with science, you can go with.... well whatever your going with I guess.


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Well since you're convinced we're all evil and killing the earth I suggest you sell your car (or destroy it so it will stop being apart of the destruction), live off the grid, and plant a bunch of trees....you know the living things that need co2 to live. Oh and don't forget to pay al gore your penance for being a co2 breathing evil earth destroyer.

 

[freebird134]

Yes and the planet can naturally produce more co2 than humans can fathom. The earths climate has been changing forever. Crooked people finally found a way to cash in a sell their chicken little scheme to the lemmings.

The "cash in" argument is soooo weak. I've studied climate change for the last 12 years. There is no cash in it. I'm probably poorer than most guys on this board. I drive a 15 year old crv. If I could figure out how to cash in on climate change, I probably would! If I could actually demonstrate that it want real, that's where I'd make some money. But, alas, that pesky data is pretty decisive.



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[tipsntails7]

Well since you're convinced we're all evil and killing the earth I suggest you sell your car (or destroy it so it will stop being apart of the destruction), live off the grid, and plant a bunch of trees....you know the living things that need co2 to live. Oh and don't forget to pay al gore your penance for being a co2 breathing evil earth destroyer.

Your an extremist about everything, it's impossible to have any semblance of a measured conversation with you because you behave like a 5 year old.


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[JWP58]

Your an extremist about everything, it's impossible to have any semblance of a measured conversation with you because you behave like a 5 year old.


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So you're going to continue to kill the planet?

 

[starsky]

The EPA is pointless if we're the only ones in the world following the regulations.

 

[MuleyFever]

The EPA is pointless if we're the only ones in the world following the regulations.

This is incredibly inaccurate. You think some other country is poising our waterways, soil and air here at home? The smog in major US cities is a very real concern as well as ground pollution by companies here at home. That's like saying its pointless to keep your home clean if your the only one in your neighborhood doing it.

 

[5MilesBack]

But, alas, that pesky data is pretty decisive.

If you could just correlate that data to something........hmmmmm. And if you only had data and proof from every century that the earth has been in existence. And if you only had proof of the long term effects of such a short time frame data point.....hmmmm. Perhaps a million years from now, someone will look back and say "gosh, I'm sure glad we had data from a million years ago".

 

[mtluckydan]

I received an environmental degree 25+ years ago and one of my professors might as well have been Al Gore junior. I can't believe so many intelligent people put so much faith in computer models tracking a very small projected change over a long period of time. If you change one variable slightly the model comes out with an entirely different outcome not supporting the global warming crowd. As it is, since I have been loosely following this politically motivated and environmental wacko driven climate change BS for years, the only thing that changed is the media has become more biased. Facts are hard to find because we have such a biased media and most of the entities producing data are funded by a driven agenda.
Living near a national park with melting glaciers, the entire media agenda is focused on climate change and the what are we going to do when the world ends mindset. The environmental wackos have successfully nearly killed the timber industry in the NW. Most people - the majority - don't care about the environmentalists agenda and don't care about the other extreme either. Now that the big O has left, I can look back and see just how environmental wacko he was too.
On a recent cruise to Alaska we spent a day in Glacier Bay. At the end of the bay there was a glacier that was receding. Very cool stuff. There was a park ranger on board the ship telling everyone how climate change was causing glaciers to melt. Right around the corner in an arm of Glacier Bay was a glacier that was growing - not receding. I guess that glacier didn't read the climate change playbook. To the best of my knowledge, the world has been on a cooling trend for the last thirty years - hence the reason to rename global warming to climate change. We have to cover our bases you know.
Trump immediately approved the two oil pipeline projects. They will get completed and life will go on. As it stands, I almost think the environmental wackos that held up those projects would rather see a train derail next to Glacier National Park so they have the next world's coming to an end scenario than let the oil be transported by a much safer method - pipeline - so they continue with their agenda. In this case, there has been train derailment after train derailment with oil explosions and spills but that supports the environmental agenda of no more oil. What a bunch of hypocrites they are. Maybe we should look at who benefits the most by shipping oil by train and the political ties of that individual.
When all is said and done, The EPA is a tool of the very crowd described above. They use a government agency to terrorize small businesses and even average individuals is criminal. One example would be the EPA's attempt to control pollution by claiming every ditch, puddle and pond in the entire US. Another attempt to increase central government jurisdiction and reduce individual liberties. I just can't believe how many individuals both here and across the country buy into this. It is getting crammed down everyone's throat in school, in the media and on forums like this. In this case - the losers - they cry, protest and whine because they aren't going to get their way for awhile. I say "Go Trump".

 

[5MilesBack]

When I was a kid in school, the emphasis was on training kids how to think on their own......to actually use their brains. It seems these days the schools are bent on training kids "what to think" rather than "how to think on their own". Kind of like the old saying "Give someone a fish and they'll eat for a day, teach someone how to fish and they'll eat for a lifetime". Seems like a lot of folks these days are being spoon fed......or even crammed down their throats by the media.

 

[ACC]

Back in the 70's I remember the Lib Dem's saying the New York City was going to be under 8 feet of water by the year 2000 didn't happen huh..

The wackos today are even worse and have put the scare into a lot of people and some are getting rich off it.

They such hypocrites flying around the world in there private jets crying wolf telling everyone what to do with there lives but you don't see them change their lifestyle do ya.

 

[HOT ROD]

Like I said before.. I have never dealt with the EPA... But have dealt with IMSHA... If U want to be treated like a piece of crap.... Deal with IMSHA.. And I know people that deal with the EPA... And from what I hear... They are the same... Mine site policy was... When U came through the gate.. U would announce Ur presence... Then U were to make calls on the radio.. At specific land marks to let every one know were U where at... A truck came through the gate... Didn't announce.. And came flying rite in... All most got ran over bye a rock truck... Sum one said... It may be IMSHA... That's when he finally spoke up. And I will quote him... If any one ever announces my presence again... I will shut this mother f%$# down. Keep I mine.. We were never cited for any violations... But this is there mentality... Sum truck drivers were fined... For non audible back up alarms... They were working... They could be heard over the machinery. But it wasn't audible enough for him... $2000 dollars a pop for the fine.... A little bit over board in my opinion... He wanted to see my up to date IMSHA training certificate. Pulled my pink copy from my wallet... He could not read the whole thing... He wanted to fine me $1500 dollars for that... Keep in mine.. At this point it had been in my wallet for 6 months or more.... My boss had to run me my original copy down...

 

[mfolch]

And because there's never enough coal debris in our rivers and streams..funny part about this article is that it's Forbes--pro-big-business and still cannot conclude that eliminating will have any meaningful impact on mining jobs:

Forbes Welcome

 

[freebird134]

If you could just correlate that data to something........hmmmmm. And if you only had data and proof from every century that the earth has been in existence. And if you only had proof of the long term effects of such a short time frame data point.....hmmmm. Perhaps a million years from now, someone will look back and say "gosh, I'm sure glad we had data from a million years ago".

You realize we have co2 and temperature records going back hundreds of thousands of years? It's solid and undeniable data based on chemistry and physics. Undeniable.

Indeed, we don't have proof of what will happen when we completely change the environment, it when that proof happens, I hope we are all happy with the consequences because there will be no going back.

I think I already said this, but it's these threads that make me realize hunters are no longer Americas conservationists. We used to be a group of forward thinking protectors of the natural lands we love.....now it's just a few of us, and our hunting buddies call us liberal wackos for caring





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[JWP58]

You realize we have co2 and temperature records going back hundreds of thousands of years? It's solid and undeniable data based on chemistry and physics. Undeniable.

Indeed, we don't have proof of what will happen when we completely change the environment, it when that proof happens, I hope we are all happy with the consequences because there will be no going back.

I think I already said this, but it's these threads that make me realize hunters are no longer Americas conservationists. We used to be a group of forward thinking protectors of the natural lands we love.....now it's just a few of us, and our hunting buddies call us liberal wackos for caring





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There is a difference between conservationist and environmentalist. Whackos who believe humans are a plague and are killing the earth are environmentalists, and are no friend to conservation.

The first thing I like to ask "warmers" or "co2'ers " is do you use electricity? Do you drive a car? Do you use any petroleum based products? Do you exhale co2? If you do, climb down off the cross you've nailed yourself to and join the "we're killing the planet" group.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Just because we do it doesn't mean that we can't recognize it as an issue and do what we can to mitigate it.

I still buy a can of Copenhagen on a rare occasion, but I don't deny that it causes cancer.


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[JWP58]

Just because we do it doesn't mean that we can't recognize it as an issue and do what we can to mitigate it.

I still buy a can of Copenhagen on a rare occasion, but I don't deny that it causes cancer.


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And that's fine. But in this situation it would be like you scolding someone for buying a can of cope, and then turning around and buying a whole log. Sometimes hypocrisy needs to be pointed out.

 

[Jason Snyder]

And that's fine. But in this situation it would be like you scolding someone for buying a can of cope, and then turning around and buying a whole log. Sometimes hypocrisy needs to be pointed out.

Actually, the more appropriate analogy would be me buying the log, and then telling the guy who just buys one can he's an idiot because this stuff isn't bad for you. It's just junk science.

 

[tipsntails7]

If you could just correlate that data to something........hmmmmm. And if you only had data and proof from every century that the earth has been in existence. And if you only had proof of the long term effects of such a short time frame data point.....hmmmm. Perhaps a million years from now, someone will look back and say "gosh, I'm sure glad we had data from a million years ago".

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[KurtR]

Like I said before.. I have never dealt with the EPA... But have dealt with IMSHA... If U want to be treated like a piece of crap.... Deal with IMSHA.. And I know people that deal with the EPA... And from what I hear... They are the same... Mine site policy was... When U came through the gate.. U would announce Ur presence... Then U were to make calls on the radio.. At specific land marks to let every one know were U where at... A truck came through the gate... Didn't announce.. And came flying rite in... All most got ran over bye a rock truck... Sum one said... It may be IMSHA... That's when he finally spoke up. And I will quote him... If any one ever announces my presence again... I will shut this mother f%$# down. Keep I mine.. We were never cited for any violations... But this is there mentality... Sum truck drivers were fined... For non audible back up alarms... They were working... They could be heard over the machinery. But it wasn't audible enough for him... $2000 dollars a pop for the fine.... A little bit over board in my opinion... He wanted to see my up to date IMSHA training certificate. Pulled my pink copy from my wallet... He could not read the whole thing... He wanted to fine me $1500 dollars for that... Keep in mine.. At this point it had been in my wallet for 6 months or more.... My boss had to run me my original copy down...

It is MSHA mine saftey and health administration. I deal with them a lot and they are redicoulus. The EPA lacks common sense in the same way.

 

[mtluckydan]

Hunters are very much conservationists still. However, the difference is that government agencies that used to be run with people that hunted and fished are now dominated with many that don't hunt and fish. They are there for the benefits. Their experience mostly comes from a book. The people that give them the majority of that book education, both written and spoken, are liberals and as evidenced by the ridiculous behavior seen everyday on the news, they can't take rejection. Rejection comes in many forms, but in this case it comes in the outcome of many elections. Trump is the least of their worries. They lost on many levels of government. I think the number is over 1000 seats in federal, state and local elections since the big "0" started running the show. If you call playing golf running the show.

Every agency in the Federal government is loaded with them because a job is their reward for supporting the party and following the agenda. Does someone you know fit this description? I live in a state with many such employees. They are not very celebratory these days. There numbers may be shrinking. Bad days to follow. Eastern Montana used to be under water as evidenced by the fossils they find. There used to be dinosaurs here based on the bones they still find. Right now there has been over a foot of snow in the last 24 and more that two feet scheduled in the next two days. It doesn't matter if it is snowing, raining, drought or some mix there of, climate change is the name of the game.

The facts don't matter. I don't think the glaciers will melt much this year, but that doesn't matter because they may melt. I don't think there is any argument the climate is changing. It has been changing forever. If it will make you feel better, please stop using oil. Stop using anything produced with oil. Don't heat your house because that contributes to climate change. Don't drive your truck because that contributes to climate change. Don't shoot your rifle because that contributes to climate change. Don't fart because that contributes to climate change. I think you get the point.

Trump got elected because what you are asking us all to do is ridiculous. What the EPA and other agencies are telling people that they must do is ridiculous. If individuals feel strongly enough about the data, then they should certainly follow the path that will make them feel good. People in Colorado voted to smoke dope I guess because it makes them feel good. People in Washington followed suit. I guess they have more brain cells to spare than the rest of us. What I and millions of other people don't want is you to push your agenda on us. I don't want to pay for it. I like driving my truck and shooting my rifle. I'm still not going to smoke dope, but that is a personal choice. The party that LOST is never happy to let others do what they do. They always want control over what we do - Obamacare - Federal ID - more gun control. They raise money based on these ridiculous agendas and many people are dumb enough to give them money.

Don't feel too bad for me because I am going to do what I want. It is the American way. The individuals that want me to do what they want should take a good look at themselves in the mirror and ask themselves why they think they should demand others to give up what they love to satisfy some party desire. Our constitution has been abused for eight years or more. Our freedoms and liberties have been put in jeopardy by ever expanding central government control. It is great to have discussions like this but in the end what is happening is there are individuals that expect me and others to give something up to make them feel good. Guess what?