Trump Admin will ask Congress to eliminate USGS Biological Resources Division

My guess would be close to zero, as part of China's retaliation has been to cut us off from those "strategic" metals, and they already have the lion's share of both the resources and the smelters, and the entire world to sell to other than the US

It would be to suppress pricing and hurt US producers. China and Russia did it in Mexico in the Late 90’s….

Main reason for stagnant steel growth is Low foreign steel prices and high EPA induced production costs.
 
It would be to suppress pricing and hurt US producers. China and Russia did it in Mexico in the Late 90’s….

Main reason for stagnant steel growth is Low foreign steel prices and high EPA induced production costs.
It's a world market, they wouldn't have to sell to the US to suppress the price.
 
It's a world market, they wouldn't have to sell to the US to suppress the price.

Then why the U.S. tariffs on them…

One of biggest gripes about the original NAFTA deal was the work around U.S. tariffs, through Mexico and Canada…

If cheap steel ore/milled etc floods US borders it increases supply pushing down local prices….. thus slowing local production…
 
A practice of the chinese is to flood the market with products substantially below production cost until the us companies go broke. They did that on rare earths and shut down the mountain pass mine and offered to buy it. This is exactly what they did with the tungsten mines in the US in the 50s - 60s. They use their slave labor to destroy american businesses and control the world markets.

I didn't know there were RE processing facilities in Canada but do they take custom work?

We need our own processing facilities in the US.
 
I’ve worked quite a bit with state and fed entities in natural resources over last 25 years… there are absolutely some important functions but the incompetence, redundancy, and reliance on soft money or outcompeting small biz with interagency back scratching is a problem.

I always wonder how best to interpret stats like ‘for every $1 spent, they generate $X in revenue and Y jobs.’ How come private firms aren’t in that game if it is so successful?

Just asked GPT to make a list of feds that have fish biologists to make the point. Funny because they missed a few big ones (BIA, BPA, TVA, etc.), not to mention all the federally-funded NGOs.

You would think with all this coverage, on top of state efforts, we’d be walking across the rivers on the backs of fish!

Primary Agencies with Dedicated Fish Biology Programs


  1. U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS)
    • Primary federal agency focused on fish conservation, hatcheries, ESA-listed species, and habitat restoration.
    • Manages National Fish Hatcheries, Fish and Wildlife Conservation Offices.
  2. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
    • National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS): Focuses on marine and anadromous fish biology, stock assessments, ESA/MMPA consultation, habitat restoration.
  3. U.S. Geological Survey (USGS)
    • Ecosystems Mission Area, especially the Biological Resources Division and Cooperative Research Units (CRUs) housed at universities.
    • Conducts ecological and biological research, including tagging, telemetry, disease, and population modeling.
  4. Bureau of Reclamation (USBR)
    • Employs fish biologists to evaluate and mitigate impacts of dams, water diversions, and habitat changes in the West.
    • Often collaborates on hatchery and entrainment issues.
  5. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE)
    • Primarily civil works projects with fish biologists engaged in ESA compliance, fish passage, dam impacts, NEPA, and mitigation.
    • Often embedded within environmental or planning divisions.
  6. Bureau of Land Management (BLM)
    • Manages aquatic habitats on federal lands. Employs fish biologists under the Aquatic Habitat Management Program.
  7. U.S. Forest Service (USFS)
    • National Forest System: Fish biologists manage aquatic resources on national forest lands.
    • Research and Development branch also includes fisheries scientists.
  8. National Park Service (NPS)
    • Employs fish biologists in parks with aquatic systems, often focused on native fish restoration, non-native control, and public education.



Other Agencies with Fisheries-Related Roles

  1. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
    • While not directly employing “fish biologists” in large numbers, EPA hires aquatic ecologists and toxicologists who work on fish-related water quality issues (e.g., bioassessments, criteria development).
  2. Department of Defense (DoD)
  • Each military branch (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines) employs natural resources staff, including fish biologists, on or around military bases under the Integrated Natural Resources Management Plans (INRMPs).
  1. Department of Energy (DOE)
  • Some DOE labs and field offices employ fish biologists to address impacts of hydroelectric projects and nuclear facilities (e.g., Pacific Northwest National Laboratory).
  1. Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC)
  • Not a large direct employer of biologists, but often employs environmental specialists who coordinate with fish biologists and review fish passage, instream flow, and habitat mitigation in licensing.
  1. U.S. Department of State / U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID)
  • Occasionally employs fish biologists in international fisheries and biodiversity programs, including treaty negotiations and capacity-building.
  1. Smithsonian Institution
  • Especially the National Museum of Natural History and Smithsonian Environmental Research Center, which conduct fish systematics, ecology, and conservation research.
  1. National Science Foundation (NSF)
  • Funds fisheries biology research through grants; some PhDs with fish biology backgrounds are employed as program officers or reviewers.
  1. U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA)
  • Forest Service (listed above), and also:
  • Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS): Works with fish habitat via stream restoration.
  • Agricultural Research Service (ARS): Includes aquaculture and fish nutrition researchers.
  • Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS): Occasionally works on fish health and invasive species (e.g., Asian carp).
  1. U.S. Coast Guard
  • Not commonly employing fish biologists, but may coordinate with them on marine protected areas, fisheries enforcement, and spill response.
  1. Department of Homeland Security (DHS)
  • Rarely employs fish biologists directly, but some ecosystem protection and disaster response functions may overlap.



Specialized or Quasi-Federal Entities

  1. Regional Fishery Management Councils (Authorized under Magnuson-Stevens Act)
  • Not federal agencies per se, but federally chartered bodies that often employ or consult with fish biologists (e.g., Gulf, Pacific, North Pacific councils).
  1. Interstate and International Commissions
  • Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC)
  • Pacific States Marine Fisheries Commission (PSMFC)
  • Great Lakes Fishery Commission (GLFC)
  • Often federally funded and staffed by biologists coordinating interstate or international fishery management.
 
I’ve worked quite a bit with state and fed entities in natural resources over last 25 years… there are absolutely some important functions but the incompetence, redundancy, and reliance on soft money or outcompeting small biz with interagency back scratching is a problem.

I always wonder how best to interpret stats like ‘for every $1 spent, they generate $X in revenue and Y jobs.’ How come private firms aren’t in that game if it is so successful?

Just asked GPT to make a list of feds that have fish biologists to make the point. Funny because they missed a few (BIA, BPA, TVA, etc.). Numbering was messed up when I pasted it but you’ll get the point.

You would think with all this coverage, on top of state efforts, we’d be walking across the rivers on the backs of fish!

Here is a comprehensive list of U.S. federal agencies that employ fish biologists in various capacities (e.g., research, management, policy, enforcement). This includes civilian and military-affiliated agencies:


Primary Agencies with Dedicated Fish Biology Programs

  1. U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS)
    • Primary federal agency focused on fish conservation, hatcheries, ESA-listed species, and habitat restoration.
    • Manages National Fish Hatcheries, Fish and Wildlife Conservation Offices.
  2. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
    • National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS): Focuses on marine and anadromous fish biology, stock assessments, ESA/MMPA consultation, habitat restoration.
  3. U.S. Geological Survey (USGS)
    • Ecosystems Mission Area, especially the Biological Resources Division and Cooperative Research Units(CRUs) housed at universities.
    • Conducts ecological and biological research, including tagging, telemetry, disease, and population modeling.
  4. Bureau of Reclamation (USBR)
    • Employs fish biologists to evaluate and mitigate impacts of dams, water diversions, and habitat changes in the West.
    • Often collaborates on hatchery and entrainment issues.
  5. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE)
    • Primarily civil works projects with fish biologists engaged in ESA compliance, fish passage, dam impacts, NEPA, and mitigation.
    • Often embedded within environmental or planning divisions.
  6. Bureau of Land Management (BLM)
    • Manages aquatic habitats on federal lands. Employs fish biologists under the Aquatic Habitat Management Program.
  7. U.S. Forest Service (USFS)
    • National Forest System: Fish biologists manage aquatic resources on national forest lands.
    • Research and Development branch also includes fisheries scientists.
  8. National Park Service (NPS)
    • Employs fish biologists in parks with aquatic systems, often focused on native fish restoration, non-native control, and public education.

Other Agencies with Fisheries-Related Roles

  1. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
    • While not directly employing “fish biologists” in large numbers, EPA hires aquatic ecologists and toxicologists who work on fish-related water quality issues (e.g., bioassessments, criteria development).
  2. Department of Defense (DoD)
  • Each military branch (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines) employs natural resources staff, including fish biologists, on or around military bases under the Integrated Natural Resources Management Plans (INRMPs).
  1. Department of Energy (DOE)
  • Some DOE labs and field offices employ fish biologists to address impacts of hydroelectric projects and nuclear facilities (e.g., Pacific Northwest National Laboratory).
  1. Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC)
  • Not a large direct employer of biologists, but often employs environmental specialists who coordinate with fish biologists and review fish passage, instream flow, and habitat mitigation in licensing.
  1. U.S. Department of State / U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID)
  • Occasionally employs fish biologists in international fisheries and biodiversity programs, including treaty negotiations and capacity-building.
  1. Smithsonian Institution
  • Especially the National Museum of Natural History and Smithsonian Environmental Research Center, which conduct fish systematics, ecology, and conservation research.
  1. National Science Foundation (NSF)
  • Funds fisheries biology research through grants; some PhDs with fish biology backgrounds are employed as program officers or reviewers.
  1. U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA)
  • Forest Service (listed above), and also:
  • Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS): Works with fish habitat via stream restoration.
  • Agricultural Research Service (ARS): Includes aquaculture and fish nutrition researchers.
  • Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS): Occasionally works on fish health and invasive species (e.g., Asian carp).
  1. U.S. Coast Guard
  • Not commonly employing fish biologists, but may coordinate with them on marine protected areas, fisheries enforcement, and spill response.
  1. Department of Homeland Security (DHS)
  • Rarely employs fish biologists directly, but some ecosystem protection and disaster response functions may overlap.

Specialized or Quasi-Federal Entities

  1. Regional Fishery Management Councils (Authorized under Magnuson-Stevens Act)
  • Not federal agencies per se, but federally chartered bodies that often employ or consult with fish biologists (e.g., Gulf, Pacific, North Pacific councils).
  1. Interstate and International Commissions
  • Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC)
  • Pacific States Marine Fisheries Commission (PSMFC)
  • Great Lakes Fishery Commission (GLFC)
  • Often federally funded and staffed by biologists coordinating interstate or international fishery management.
My line of work has had me in the loop with many of those on your list.

Many times when asking the on-site bio what our scope of work is, the answer was not arbitrary, but rather to find a way to support a belief.....a seek and destroy vs recon.

I'm 100% fine with the cuts even though I was given a RIF notice. It's the right thing to do from my perspective.

Wildlife and environmental policy meetings and decisions should be 100% transparent. If you think there's no politics in science, you're not involved.

One of my favorites is the disolved gasses from our dams. Everyone knows the best fishing lies just downstream of dams, but the dams are now, after nearly 100 years in service needing to change the discharge to accommodate a science plan. One would think that if fish didn't like it, they wouldn't be there......or the removal of every steel culvert on usfs land bridge to replace with concrete box bridges.....because fish won't cross the culverts.

It's an industry designed to make research and engineering firms rich.
 
I always wonder how best to interpret stats like ‘for every $1 spent, they generate $X in revenue and Y jobs.’ How come private firms aren’t in that game if it is so successful?
For the case I mentioned about the Coop Units, there are private agencies that are getting these grants or supporting students in my university, but the Coop specifically uses PostDocs and graduate students. Grad students and postdocs are unbelievably cheap in comparison to full fledged and on top of that, there is some level of return on investment with the education and training a new scientist under the wing of established scientists. I won’t speak to other things specifically, but that is the one case that I feel everyone should understand or at least support. If grants were going to private agencies or were done primarily by full fledged scientists, the amount of money taken out of grants for salaries would be at least 2.5X what it is currently with grad students.
 
There are 153 million "taxpayers" in the US. That is the number of people who filed a tax return not the number of people who actually paid taxes or the number of people who get more money back in federal programs than they paid in taxes. The math isn't that easy.
Here's easy math. BLM revenue pays for all of DOI appropriations. This is an attack on Wildlife Science, nothing more
 
Wildlife and environmental policy meetings and decisions should be 100% transparent. If you think there's no politics in science, you're not involved.
You’re wildly correct on this and unfortunately that lack of transparency is causing this, what I feel is, an over correction. The level of politics is pretty wild. People want science-based wildlife management but that does not mean they want science-driven wildlife management. There will always be some level of politics or public influence on management. If we don’t listen to the public and truly take their wants and needs into account, this is where our future is headed.
 
For the case I mentioned about the Coop Units, there are private agencies that are getting these grants or supporting students in my university, but the Coop specifically uses PostDocs and graduate students. Grad students and postdocs are unbelievably cheap in comparison to full fledged and on top of that, there is some level of return on investment with the education and training a new scientist under the wing of established scientists. I won’t speak to other things specifically, but that is the one case that I feel everyone should understand or at least support. If grants were going to private agencies or were done primarily by full fledged scientists, the amount of money taken out of grants for salaries would be at least 2.5X what it is currently with grad students.

Oh I get that and agree, for the most part.

The point I’m making is that the argument that it’s such a wise investment is hard to ground truth if none of these can pay for themselves.

With $36T in debt, over $100T in unfunded liabilities, last I saw, and a never-ending war machine, it’s hard to understand how all these wise investments are paying off.

That includes forestry, wildlife, fisheries, and so on. We throw more money than anyone at these things and how does it keep sliding?
 
My line of work has had me in the loop with many of those on your list.

Many times when asking the on-site bio what our scope of work is, the answer was not arbitrary, but rather to find a way to support a belief.....a seek and destroy vs recon.

I'm 100% fine with the cuts even though I was given a RIF notice. It's the right thing to do from my perspective.

Wildlife and environmental policy meetings and decisions should be 100% transparent. If you think there's no politics in science, you're not involved.

One of my favorites is the disolved gasses from our dams. Everyone knows the best fishing lies just downstream of dams, but the dams are now, after nearly 100 years in service needing to change the discharge to accommodate a science plan. One would think that if fish didn't like it, they wouldn't be there......or the removal of every steel culvert on usfs land bridge to replace with concrete box bridges.....because fish won't cross the culverts.

It's an industry designed to make research and engineering firms rich.

Correct! It’s find evidence for something you know in your heart to be true… not find truth. Numbers are like people, torture them hard enough and they’ll confess to anything.

I know the TDG story all too well! The list of fish bios gets even more extensive when you include clean water act/DOE/401 cert folks. And they can flip the science pretty quickly to serve a mission (like lifting gas caps on the Columbia).
 
Oh I get that and agree, for the most part.

The point I’m making is that the argument that it’s such a wise investment is hard to ground truth if none of these can pay for themselves.

With $36T in debt, over $100T in unfunded liabilities, last I saw, and a never-ending war machine, it’s hard to understand how all these wise investments are paying off.

That includes forestry, wildlife, fisheries, and so on. We throw more money than anyone at these things and how does it keep sliding?
Oh I have 0 interest in increasing the money going to these organizations. I don’t think we need to throw more money here. I just think the current system is correct. I watched Ryan Zinke on a local news channel talk about how we didn’t need as many scientists but we needed front line fire workers. He talked about BLM, USFS, and FWS but whether we all like it or not, those biologists are all working on different missions. Biologists in each agency have a specialization that helps balance the decisions that are made, in an ideal world that is as litigation has prevented this from functioning correctly. As BLM revenue funds the program, then is it true that the organizations are not economically viable? This comes as the golden goose of defense continues failing audits and increasing their budget. Now talking about some contract for a satellite based defense system (Golden Dome) that could take out enemies at a moments notice. That system is projected to cost $25 billion dollars and then have an operating cost of $4-$5 billion dollars a year. Is that really more important than scientific research? I firmly believe it is not but that is what this administration is talking about.

Additionally this is kind of a side note but, I had a friend who started as a hotshot and he immediately rejected what Zinke said because the scientists that show up on the front line were the people keeping the firefighters safe. They are able to steer them away from areas that would kill them.
 
Correct! It’s find evidence for something you know in your heart to be true… not find truth. Numbers are like people, torture them hard enough and they’ll confess to anything.

I know the TDG story all too well! The list of fish bios gets even more extensive when you include clean water act/DOE/401 cert folks. And they can flip the science pretty quickly to serve a mission (like lifting gas caps on the Columbia).
Pretty much if the Columbia riverkeepers are involved, it's going to be expensive and never ending.
 
While true, they do take loans against those assets for liquid cash which are not taxable income. Not to mention being able to legally shuffle things around indefinitely to pay nothing or the minimum amount possible. All of us would do the same if we had the means, but I think the average person is looking to remove some of these legal methods of avoiding tax on the wealthiest individuals and corporations. Just like banning congress and senate from trading stocks.

Exactly. If they can use their stock as collateral, then it has value. Additionally, people that get around taxes by donating to charities (particularly their own) that do not spend the amount of money required yearly just seems like money laundering to me. But there appears to be 0 consequence for doing those things as Elon and his charity/nonprofit have done that the last two years with what appears to be no consequence.

So you guys are cool with paying extra taxes when you take out a car loan, mortgage or any other type of loan right? After all the personal loan, car and home market dwarfs the few billionaires taking out loans and if they decide to start taxing them well it sure isn’t going to generate the supposed benefits so you can be damn sure they will move on to taxing us on our loans once the cat is out of the bag.
 
So you guys are cool with paying extra taxes when you take out a car loan, mortgage or any other type of loan right? After all the personal loan, car and home market dwarfs the few billionaires taking out loans and if they decide to start taxing them well it sure isn’t going to generate the supposed benefits so you can be damn sure they will move on to taxing us on our loans once the cat is out of the bag.
There are ways to tax assets and close loopholes without screwing over the middle and lower class. But sure keep defending people that can buy out our entire government.
 
I did my PhD studies in the Alaska Coop Unit. For those who aren't familiar, these are small USGS-led groups at 44 universities across 41 different states, each of which employs a few professors to lead research responsive to the needs of federal and state resource managers. Losing these would be a disaster for fish and wildlife biology nationwide.

Because the USGS pays their salaries and they have a light class-teaching workload, Coop Unit professors are free to focus their time and competitively-won grant money on doing valuable research and mentoring graduate students. These are favorite tasks for many researchers, so these positions for decades have attracted many of our brightest scientists and produced some of the highest-quality, most applicable research. The units also bring these professors and students together with government scientists regularly, both in conferences and one-on-one relationships. These relationships prepare students for jobs at government agencies, help keep their research grounded in the needs of managers, and facilitate their research logistically by giving them access to under-used government resources—things like trucks, boats, nets, traps, or electronic gizmos that would otherwise be sitting in a shed unused between projects.

It would be hard to find an example of a government program in this field that does more good for less spending, by incentivizing useful research and helping each cooperator (state, fed, university) leverage the unused capacity of the others to meet their missions. The government gets research questions answered for pennies on the dollar compared to doing it themselves, due to inexpensive labor from grad students and the universities providing their office and lab space. The universities get reputation boosts from quality research and producing accomplished graduates whose research costs them very little. The students get excellent material support for their research and contacts and training for future jobs with management agencies. The public gets some of the best, management-oriented research being done in the field to inform better decisions.

Here are a couple examples of the research I did as a grad student in the Alaska Coop Unit:

Developed accurate, efficient methods/software to measure fish and their behavior/habitat from video footage, currently at 89 citations on Google Scholar, and the software has been used for several dozen other fisheries studies in the US and worldwide.

Analyzed the population dynamics of interior Alaska Chinook Salmon and how they're associated with streamflow, currently at 54 citations and influential on several related studies.

There is still a gap between good research and results. You won’t always see more animals on the landscape, because the path from research to policy goes through a bunch of steps that aren’t all grounded in science, most management decisions involve tradeoffs that can’t make everyone happy (i.e. managing for more animals vs trophy quality), and even great management policy can’t fix a harsh winter or a bad cycle of ocean currents. But the answer to those challenges is not to have less reliable knowledge of fish and wildlife. A quality scientific understanding of what’s actually happening in our ecosystems is necessary for any conceivable way of making good decisions.

Any department focused on actual government efficiency should be looking to make more programs function like the Coop Units do, not getting rid of them.
 
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