Tikka updating 300 wsm twist rate- 1-10”

[goathunter]

I think folks mainly get their panties in a twist based upon what they read as minimum recommended twist from the bullet manufacturers.

This is my holdup. Hornady has 1-10 twist minimum stamped on their 200 and 212 eldx bullets. Are they wrong?

 

[ZAR EC]

This is my holdup. Hornady has 1-10 twist minimum stamped on their 200 and 212 eldx bullets. Are they wrong?

It's worth going onto JBM twist rate calculator and entering details of bullet, twist, etc to determine stability. If it's indicating an SG of 1.5 or above that is showing full stability and full BC. If it's below 1.5 knock off 3% per 0.1 less than 1.5 to get an estimate of BC as the bullet may still shoot just fine above 1.2. There are plenty of shooters getting the 180gr eld to stabalise in 9.5" twist 7mm's and the 208gr eld to stabalise in 11" twist 30 cals and the JBM calcs support this. JBM have a field that populates bullet tip length and this is where the differences to other calculators sits. I'm not a ballistician but my own experience mirrors what JBM predicts.

 

[BjornF16]

This is my holdup. Hornady has 1-10 twist minimum stamped on their 200 and 212 eldx bullets. Are they wrong?

It's worth going onto JBM twist rate calculator and entering details of bullet, twist, etc to determine stability. If it's indicating an SG of 1.5 or above that is showing full stability and full BC. If it's below 1.5 knock off 3% per 0.1 less than 1.5 to get an estimate of BC as the bullet may still shoot just fine above 1.2. There are plenty of shooters getting the 180gr eld to stabalise in 9.5" twist 7mm's and the 208gr eld to stabalise in 11" twist 30 cals and the JBM calcs support this. JBM have a field that populates bullet tip length and this is where the differences to other calculators sits. I'm not a ballistician but my own experience mirrors what JBM predicts.

This weekend I shot 208 ELD-Ms (Hornady minimum recommended twist rate 1-10") out of my 1-11" Tikka and they stabilized just fine at 800' DA.

So yes, I believe bullet manufacturers are too conservative and don't account for the plastic tip.

Using the JBM Ballistic stability calculator for 208 ELD-M (bullet length 1.535", plastic tip length 0.175"), I get 1.635 stability factor at Sea Level.

Without the plastic tip length (i.e. 0.0"), I get 1.297 stability factor.

The round holes at 200 yards suggest the bullets were stable.

JBM - Calculations - Stability

jbmballistics.com

 

[grfox92]

This weekend I shot 208 ELD-Ms (Hornady minimum recommended twist rate 1-10") out of my 1-11" Tikka and they stabilized just fine at 800' DA.

So yes, I believe bullet manufacturers are too conservative and don't account for the plastic tip.

Using the JBM Ballistic stability calculator for 208 ELD-M (bullet length 1.535", plastic tip length 0.175"), I get 1.635 stability factor at Sea Level.

Without the plastic tip length (i.e. 0.0"), I get 1.297 stability factor.

The round holes at 200 yards suggest the bullets were stable.

JBM - Calculations - Stability

jbmballistics.com

Forgive my ignorance on this topic, but is a bullet forever stable if it leaves the muzzle stable? For example, you shot those at 200 yards, is it possible the bullet won't behave that way at 600 yards?

Sent from my SM-G990U2 using Tapatalk

 

[Packmansion]

Forgive my ignorance on this topic, but is a bullet forever stable if it leaves the muzzle stable? For example, you shot those at 200 yards, is it possible the bullet won't behave that way at 600 yards?

Sent from my SM-G990U2 using Tapatalk

No, it can become unstable in flight. Go 1:10. Sell the gun or rebarrel with the correct twist for the application. If you want to shoot up to 180 lead and 160 copper 1:11 is good otherwise you'll want a 1:10. Stability is influenced by temperature and elevation. You hunt in a cold lower elevation environment and you might be sending bullets sideways. Doesn't make sense to compromise on something so simple. Tikka caters to Europeans who by and large do not understand firearms. If you look at sako ammunition it's literally 1920s technology. 1:11 belongs in the previous century.JBM is an awesome tool. You'll see with the Tikka you are not above 1.5 with a lot of loads. Be sure to adjust temperature to your hunting conditions. Temperature can play a big role. I'm definitely anticipating my state to introduce a lead ban for hunting in that case a Tikka is basically a paperweight you get neutered to light for caliber low bc turds. Turns a 300win into a 308. Personally I wouldn't develop a load on 1:11 I'd just rebarrel and save the money on the components. I have a 300 win waiting for a rebarrel to 300wsm but I'm slow rolling it. Got brass, dies, headspace and primers first. Tough times right now. Good luck.

 

[wirehead]

From a business perspective, selling off the old inventory at full price is better than having old, new stock laying around that you have to get rid of at a discount.

For people going with the 1-10, does the WSM magazine allow for long heavy bullets?

No

 

[wirehead]

Do you have a preference between these mags? Is the HCA worth the extra $?

I’d like to see someone prove that you can load either mag with 3 rounds installed with the bolt closed… so far, the HCA gen2 doesn’t easily allow it

 

[wirehead]

Berger 205 EH stabilizes out of a 1-11” barrel.

 

[eightyeight mag]

Have put hundreds of 200 gr accubonds and 180 gr ttsx through my lowly 1-11” tikka 300 wsm out to 800 yards and stabilizes just fine. All hand loads.

 

[Packmansion]

Have put hundreds of 200 gr accubonds and 180 gr ttsx through my lowly 1-11” tikka 300 wsm out to 800 yards and stabilizes just fine. All hand loads.

Marginally stable bullets behave differently on impact. It does not inspire confidence with me. This is my personal opinion I just don't want to be in a situation where air pressure increases and temperatures drop and then I'm send bullets sideways into an animal. I can resolve that with $600.

 

[eightyeight mag]

Marginally stable bullets behave differently on impact. It does not inspire confidence with me. This is my personal opinion I just don't want to be in a situation where air pressure increases and temperatures drop and then I'm send bullets sideways into an animal. I can resolve that with $600.

Whatever gives you confidence you should go with.

 

[BjornF16]

No, it can become unstable in flight. Go 1:10. Sell the gun or rebarrel with the correct twist for the application. If you want to shoot up to 180 lead and 160 copper 1:11 is good otherwise you'll want a 1:10. Stability is influenced by temperature and elevation. You hunt in a cold lower elevation environment and you might be sending bullets sideways. Doesn't make sense to compromise on something so simple. Tikka caters to Europeans who by and large do not understand firearms. If you look at sako ammunition it's literally 1920s technology. 1:11 belongs in the previous century.JBM is an awesome tool. You'll see with the Tikka you are not above 1.5 with a lot of loads. Be sure to adjust temperature to your hunting conditions. Temperature can play a big role. I'm definitely anticipating my state to introduce a lead ban for hunting in that case a Tikka is basically a paperweight you get neutered to light for caliber low bc turds. Turns a 300win into a 308. Personally I wouldn't develop a load on 1:11 I'd just rebarrel and save the money on the components. I have a 300 win waiting for a rebarrel to 300wsm but I'm slow rolling it. Got brass, dies, headspace and primers first. Tough times right now. Good luck.

I wouldn’t call SG = 1.6 as marginally stable

Don’t overcomplicate this

 

[gerry35]

Tikka caters to Europeans who by and large do not understand firearms. If you look at sako ammunition it's literally 1920s technology. 1:11 belongs in the previous century.

This is a ridiculous statement. Not everyone in the world hunts like a select group of North American hunters do at long ranges. The vast majority of animals taken worldwide I bet are less than 200 yards.

By the way they were spinning 6.5 mm bullets at a twist rate quicker than 1 in 8 now for over 130 years now. And yes they are quickening up their twist rates in other rounds now too just like everyone else.

 

[Packmansion]

This is a ridiculous statement. Not everyone in the world hunts like a select group of North American hunters do at long ranges. The vast majority of animals taken worldwide I bet are less than 200 yards.

By the way they were spinning 6.5 mm bullets at a twist rate quicker than 1 in 8 now for over 130 years now. And yes they are quickening up their twist rates in other rounds now too just like everyone else.

I should say Europe has a very small minority of people who own guns, gun laws and ammunition regulations are debilitating and Europeans do not have many good affordable options with easy access. This friction prevents Europeans from being up to speed with new technologies despite Tikka being finish I be more fins hunt with mosins than Tikkas. Also Europe is mostly flat and heavily wooded so bc doesn't have much benefit as it does in US. It's amazing Tikka is updating their twists to the proper bare minimum so quickly. I would have expected another decade lol.

 

[BjornF16]

I should say Europe has a very small minority of people who own guns, gun laws and ammunition regulations are debilitating and Europeans do not have many good affordable options with easy access. This friction prevents Europeans from being up to speed with new technologies despite Tikka being finish I be more fins hunt with mosins than Tikkas. Also Europe is mostly flat and heavily wooded so bc doesn't have much benefit as it does in US. It's amazing Tikka is updating their twists to the proper bare minimum so quickly. I would have expected another decade lol.

What?!!

 

[Packmansion]

I wouldn’t call SG = 1.6 as marginally stable

Don’t overcomplicate this

1.6 with 208? Hey I'm not telling you what to do. I've run the numbers for the conditions I plan to hunt in and the bullets I want to shoot and the 1:11 isn't going to inspire confidence with me. I'd just rather go with what I know will work under my circumstances with margin for error. 1:10 is my minimum the only reason I own anything 1:11 is that a complete Tikka is cheaper then a custom action of lesser quality in my eyes. A prefit barrel runs $500 to $1000 and you could customize the length have it threaded and spin it on yourself. I am also planning for my state to ban lead it's very likely with all the sheeple in my home state. If that happens you really limit yourself with a 1:11, even a 1:10 can become limiting with hammers if you want to send something really sleek and heavy.

 

[BjornF16]

1.6 with 208? Hey I'm not telling you what to do. I've run the numbers for the conditions I plan to hunt in and the bullets I want to shoot and the 1:11 isn't going to inspire confidence with me. I'd just rather go with what I know will work under my circumstances with margin for error. 1:10 is my minimum the only reason I own anything 1:11 is that a complete Tikka is cheaper then a custom action of lesser quality in my eyes. A prefit barrel runs $500 to $1000 and you could customize the length have it threaded and spin it on yourself. I am also planning for my state to ban lead it's very likely with all the sheeple in my home state. If that happens you really limit yourself with a 1:11, even a 1:10 can become limiting with hammers if you want to send something really sleek and heavy.

Actually, SG = 1.635 at 800' DA with 208 ELD-M...see post #63 above.

While I would prefer a 1-10" twist, I'm not going to chuck a 1-11" twist barrel just because someone "thinks" it won't stabilize some particular bullet.

 

[wirehead]

I should say Europe has a very small minority of people who own guns, gun laws and ammunition regulations are debilitating and Europeans do not have many good affordable options with easy access. This friction prevents Europeans from being up to speed with new technologies despite Tikka being finish I be more fins hunt with mosins than Tikkas. Also Europe is mostly flat and heavily wooded so bc doesn't have much benefit as it does in US. It's amazing Tikka is updating their twists to the proper bare minimum so quickly. I would have expected another decade lol.

Sako / Tikka
Steyr
Mauser
CZ
Mosan Nagant
Lee Enfield
Bergara

 

[wirehead]

I should say Europe has a very small minority of people who own guns, gun laws and ammunition regulations are debilitating and Europeans do not have many good affordable options with easy access. This friction prevents Europeans from being up to speed with new technologies despite Tikka being finish I be more fins hunt with mosins than Tikkas. Also Europe is mostly flat and heavily wooded so bc doesn't have much benefit as it does in US. It's amazing Tikka is updating their twists to the proper bare minimum so quickly. I would have expected another decade lol.

I was driving through rural Austria not too long ago - I saw a deer stand in every field. I felt like I was back home, driving through bean fields in the southeast.

 

[Packmansion]

I was driving through rural Austria not too long ago - I saw a deer stand in every field. I felt like I was back home, driving through bean fields in the southeast.

I'm not sure you're aware of this but Australia is not in Europe and Australia is probably up there with the US when it comes to long range shooting, hunting, and firearm ownership.