The point Creep is ridiculous

[ElDiablito]

I would hope that if enough people wrote in they would change their minds, unfortunately I understand that is rarely the case.

A lot of low point holders are happy with this change.

 

[CorbLand]

I actually think there is a 4th option Colorado could use to fix point creep. They issue a ton of tags. If you get an elk tag you lose your points. Pretty simple.

That would be 2. that I listed. But it wont happen because for biological and social reasons, they will never issue tags to a level that would solve it.

 

[CorbLand]

Not a bad idea. Give everybody with points a tag, points are gone whether you take the tag or not, and be done with points if that's the goal. Pull the band-aid off in 1 year and move on.

I would support getting rid of points systems but it will never happen. Too many people hold to close too their points. The last GoHunt podcast, one of them said how their brother wont apply in a nonpoint state because he doesnt get anything if he doesnt draw. Participation trophies of the hunting world.

 

[Wetwork]

The States need to stop calling them "points" and just flat out call them YEARS!!! That way when you apply you can tell it will take you this many years to possbily draw specific units.-WW

 

[The_Jim]

GoHunt is a HUGE part of the problem. When I started doing this, I called the Wyoming Game & Parks office and had a lady tell me how to apply. Now all you have to do is get the itch to hunt, pay GoHunt $100(use code nameyourfavoriteinfluencer and save 20%) and all of that information is at your fingertips.

The hunting public managed to make archery mule deer hunting in the Nebraska Sandhills so popular Nebraska had to make archery deer tags a draw for NR

 

[sndmn11]

Not sure of another area where I could get that quality of a hunt.

This statement has oodles of irony, knowing the context of 18 years (at least) have passed. Contrasted by the 18 minutes of effort in applying each year and then stating there is frustration over that "investment".

 

[bergie]

The last GoHunt podcast, one of them said how their brother wont apply in a nonpoint state because he doesnt get anything if he doesnt draw. Participation trophies of the hunting world.

To all that feel this way I just want to say that participation trophies are a wonderful part of our society. I do not think this statement was meant to be demeaning in any way. Everyone should only apply in states where they get a point every year. States that have points have better hunting anyway.

 

[cnelk]

When the YouTube cowboys make their videos and it’s no secret where they hunted contributes to point creep in a big way

 

[dirtytough]

That would be 2. that I listed. But it wont happen because for biological and social reasons, they will never issue tags to a level that would solve it.

Increasing the number of tags is not what I wrote.

I said ‘if’ you get a tag you lose your points. Voucher, draw, reissue, type b, c, etc. You get a tag for that species you lose your points.

 

[dirtytough]

Not a bad idea. Give everybody with points a tag, points are gone whether you take the tag or not, and be done with points if that's the goal. Pull the band-aid off in 1 year and move on.

That’s not what I wrote.

 

[CorbLand]

Increasing the number of tags is not what I wrote.

I said ‘if’ you get a tag you lose your points. Voucher, draw, reissue, type b, c, etc. You get a tag for that species you lose your points.

Yea, I think the part that is throwing me and the other guy off is the "They issue a ton of tags." I read that as "the solution is they issue a ton of tags and you lose your points if you draw." not they already issue a ton of tags and the solution is you lose your points regardless of how they get a tag.


There are states that do that, and it really hasnt helped.

 

[mtnbiker208]

The funny thing about Idaho draw system being random is: As a resident, i can only apply for one species.
So if i want a good elk unit, i can't apply for moose, or sheep or deer, ect. The state has to limit the amount of applicants some how.

 

[dirtytough]

Yea, I think the part that is throwing me and the other guy off is the "They issue a ton of tags." I read that as "the solution is they issue a ton of tags and you lose your points if you draw." not they already issue a ton of tags and the solution is you lose your points regardless of how they get a tag.


There are states that do that, and it really hasnt helped.

What states issue the amount of tags that Colorado does, and if you receive a tag you lose your points?

I can’t think of any.

 

[H@mstar19x3]

It's a huge problem. Lets say you grew up in a non-hunting family. you're a 20-21 year old and have learned about hunting from the internet or friends. now you want to go. oh hey, you won't draw for 10 years. boom there goes a new hunter gone.

 

[CorbLand]

What states issue the amount of tags that Colorado does, and if you receive a tag you lose your points?

I can’t think of any.

I dont know any that issues tags to the level that CO does. How many draw tags does CO issue? I know they issue a ton but not sure if the numbers I have seen included the OTC hunts.

Utah, you can turn your tag back in before a deadline. You get your points back minus one for that year before the deadline. The tag is reissued and the person that it is reissued to loses all their points. While Utah doesnt issue tags close to what CO does, it still doesnt make a dent in point creep. Someone is getting a tag and losing points regardless of who hunts the tag here. Odds are only getting worse, even on our more liberal hunts.



Does Colorado look at all or some of your choices first or only first choice? If a tag is surrendered does it get reissued and does that person lose their points?

Point creep is caused by having more people wanting to hunt than there are tags. The trend over the last 30 years in the West has been more hunters and less tags. Really, no matter how you issue tags or what perimeters you put on them, unless you can reduce number of hunters and/or increase the number of tags, point creep will exist. But like I said in my first post, you either call it point creep or reduced probability of drawing because its happening in all Western states regardless of their draw system.

 

[5MilesBack]

I ask this, because I know guys who have hunted premium units that require 20+ points. These guys are accomplished hunters and have spent an enormous amount of time trying to kill a bull over 400”. None of them have, and they report that a 360+” bull is even hard to find. But, they do see a ton of really good bulls that are huntable.

That last line is what I've always seen the decent draw units as.........not as some mystical area that has 400" bulls running around. It's fun hunting a unit where you're on good mature bulls every time out. I'll generally average 20-22 days of hunting in those type of units, and most of that time is spent passing on bulls. By the end of the season it's been totally worth it whether I decide to notch my tag or not. There are more units than just the NW units that will provide these types of hunts.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Does Colorado look at all or some of your choices first or only first choice?

Colorado’s primary draw is 4 separate rounds of drawing for choices 1-4. They go through all hunt codes awarding tags to applicants who selected that hunt code as their 1st choice until they either run out of tags or run out of 1st choice applicants. For any hunt codes with tags remaining after all 1st choice applicants have been satisfied, they go back through and award those remaining tags to applicants who selected that hunt code as their 2nd choice (and didn’t get their 1st choice tag). If any tags remain after all eligible 2nd choice applicants are satisfied, they proceed to the 3rd choice draw then 4th choice. Any tags remaining after the 4th choice draw go to the secondary draw (then leftover list if any remain after secondary draw).

In the primary draw, you only lose your points if you get your 1st choice tag. If you draw a tag on choice 2-4, you get the tag and gain a preference point.

If a tag is surrendered does it get reissued and does that person lose their points?

If you surrender a tag, you can get your points restored if you surrender it at least 30 days before the season starts.

If you get a reissued tag in the secondary draw or leftover list, you don’t lose your points.

If a tag that took 5 points or more to draw gets surrendered, CPW calls up to 5 applicants who unsuccessfully applied for that tag and offers it to them. If you take the offer, you get the tag and lose your points.

ETA: This is how it currently works in Colorado. Sounds like some of this will change in 2028.

 

[HuntHarder]

Point creep sucks big time. I know the feeling. It's every state and is not going away any time soon...

 

[Bluefish]

It's a huge problem. Lets say you grew up in a non-hunting family. you're a 20-21 year old and have learned about hunting from the internet or friends. now you want to go. oh hey, you won't draw for 10 years. boom there goes a new hunter gone.

Try doing it in your 50’s. At this point, my one co ML elk hunt will be my only one. First year ever drew a tag, second year no tag, then moved. Now a NR. Won’t ever get to do it again.

Fwiw didn’t get an elk, and had a misfire on a nice mule deer. Learned you have to fire a couple primers after cleaning to make sure it will fire.

 

[PathFinder]

Do we all despise the internet hunters yet? Or will that not happen until we're all only hunting once every 5 years?
Corb nailed it above. The root cause isn't the draw system. It's too much demand chasing too few tags. That massive recent increase in demand is driven by all of the absurd attention hunting is getting on the web.
Point based systems end with the people who draw being the ones who outlive everyone else Drawing becomes mathematically predictable to the year, insofar as the number of years occurs before the applicant dies.
Fully random draws also reach a point where the odds are fundamentally zero. They have the accelerated effect of encouraging new people to jump in, because they have the same terrible odds as everyone else.
Nevada's points squaring system is probably the best balance, but the outcome is the same.
If there's any hope for the numbers not getting worse, it's shutting up all of the attention seekers. Maybe it's time they understand that their behavior is destructive and unwelcome.

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