The CPW Youth … err Secondary List is out.

[cnelk]

I truly believe [and it is supported on this thread] any Youth that will participate in the Secondary Draw already has been positively influenced and recruited by their parent(s) or guardian

Regardless of the Secondary Draw

 

[KsRancher]

I truly believe [and it is supported on this thread] any Youth that will participate in the Secondary Draw already has been positively influenced and recruited by their parent(s) or guardian

Regardless of the Secondary Draw

As much as I like the secondary draw for my kids. This statement is 100% true. I don't believe the secondary draw is getting anybody into hunting that isn't already

 

[timberland]

Sounds like a great idea. Nothing better than going along while one of my kids hunts. Wouldn't bother me in the least if I never had another tag in my pocket as long as I could tag along on a hunt with one of my kids

WI does this with draw bear tags, can be gifted to related youth.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Please tell me how youth recruitment will protect hunting… we will never recruit our way into being a majority of the population, oh and if we did, you wouldn’t get to hunt anymore unless you were so wealthy you could buy tags or own a hunting preserve.

I am all for kids hunting, but let’s not fool ourselves into thinking R3 or youth hunts will bring about a miracle we will always be a minority.

I agree. We’re the minority and will be more and more the minority going forward.

I don’t think we’re recruiting youth to save hunting.

I just don’t see how a bunch of grown ass men can say they don’t want youth to have a chance. Any youth getting their first tag will likely NEVER have a chance to hunt 10, 201, 2, 61 early rifle, etc because they were born too late in the point system. How’s that fair to them?

Most of us have been part of the heyday in Colorado hunting. Guys on this post complaining about youth getting a small advantage have killed dozens, maybe 100, elk and deer and are still complaining about having to give up a chance on a secondary list?!

I’ll bow out of this thread, commiserating is always more fun when someone doesn’t come in and mess it up.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Even if you barred youth from the secondary draw, the good tags are still >1% draw odds. Here's the link to the draw odds if you would like to check: https://cpw.state.co.us/thingstodo/Pages/Statistics.aspx.

If you had your way "logic and reason" would suggest you would still effectively have no chance of drawing. It is hard enough to obtain tags even when you are passionate and know how to play the draw game. Any barrier to entry that we can reasonably remove to recruit more youth to protect hunting is a good thing.

Any chance (even if it's statistically small) is superior to no chance. 9 unit 66 archery elk tags were awarded via secondary draw last year. That tag required 4 (resident) and 11 (non-resident) preference points in the primary draw. All 9 of those tags were drawn by youth applicants with a first choice success rate of 39%. If youth and adult applicants had been on equal footing in the secondary draw, first choice odds would have been 1.5% (assuming the same number of total applicants). 1.5% isn't high, but it's better than 0%.

Regardless of how the numbers shake out, I agree with @5MilesBack that it seems logically inconsistent to apply one youth allocation scheme to the primary draw and a vastly different one to the secondary draw. Due to the lenient return policy immediately after the primary draw, the secondary draw list is comprised not just of leftover/unwanted tags. A significant number of tags that required points in the primary draw get returned and added to the secondary draw pool. In the specific example I mentioned above, 5 NR youth applicants got to skip 11 years of waiting to get that tag, and 4 resident youth got to skip 4 years of waiting. Such loopholes seem contrary to the spirit of a preference point system. Perhaps a reasonable compromise for allocating secondary draw tags would be to give youth 100% preference on tags that drew out at second choice or later in the primary draw and to put all applicants on equal footing for tags that drew out first choice in the primary draw.

 

[MallardSX2]

AGAIN!!!!!!!

Before too many of you get your thongs in a bind, I suggest you listen to the video and wait for the proposal to be posted that will be pitched to the CPW Commission in July. It's going to likely change applicant behavior well into the future.

They are still working on the memo summarizing the recommendations. Once it is finalized, it will be posted on both the Engage CPW and CPW Commission webpages. That should be around July 8th.

You can watch the meeting here:

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Any youth getting their first tag will likely NEVER have a chance to hunt 10, 201, 2, 61 early rifle, etc because they were born too late in the point system. How’s that fair to them?

Point creep can't continue forever. Even for those ultra premium tags, points required to draw will eventually level off. If a youth starts building points early, he likely will get a chance at one of those hunts if he sticks with it. That's not the route I would choose for myself or my kids (I like to hunt frequently and don't care much about trophy quality), but the path to those tags is clear and open to anyone who wants to pursue it.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

AGAIN!!!!!!!

Before too many of you get your thongs in a bind, I suggest you listen to the video and wait for the proposal to be posted that will be pitched to the CPW Commission in July. It's going to likely change applicant behavior well into the future.

They are still working on the memo summarizing the recommendations. Once it is finalized, it will be posted on both the Engage CPW and CPW Commission webpages. That should be around July 8th.

You can watch the meeting here:

Can you give us a specific timestamp? The odds of any of us actually watching a 7 hour long video is less than the odds of getting a decent tag in the secondary draw.

 

[MallardSX2]

If someone isn't getting a tag right now, it's because they don't want to hunt that bad. It's really that simple.

That applies to Residents, Nonresidents, resident youth and NR youth.

Everyone can get a tag right now.

IF, you watch that video you'll see that changes ARE potentially coming and that SHOULD help everyone.

The only people that will suffer are the people who continue to turn in tags and its long past due that these people are punished for their sins.....

 

[MallardSX2]

Can you give us a specific timestamp? The odds of any of us actually watching a 7 hour long video is less than the odds of getting a decent tag in the secondary draw.
View attachment 726633

NO. I. WILL. NOT.

If you got time to get on here and gripe, you got time to watch the video.

Please watch the video. At least "earn" the right to complain.

Almost everything BIG GAME TAG RELATED is related/tied to what they decide in July.

I love to bitch as much as the next guy but at least I made the time to watch the video to form an opinion based on what is potentially going to happen.

It's worth your time. Watch it and then form your opinion. It basically summarizes everything we have complained about for years on here.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

I just don’t see how a bunch of grown ass men can say they don’t want youth to have a chance. Any youth getting their first tag will likely NEVER have a chance to hunt 10, 201, 2, 61 early rifle, etc because they were born too late in the point system. How’s that fair to them?

Most of us have been part of the heyday in Colorado hunting. Guys on this post complaining about youth getting a small advantage have killed dozens, maybe 100, elk and deer and are still complaining about having to give up a chance on a secondary list?!

That's the thing for me. I wasn't part of your heyday even, but I just have a hard time being envious of kids getting tags residents or not. Let the kids get a handful of extra tags and have a great hunt, once they're 18 they'll feel the pain of the point system and draw game the same as the rest of us. lol

 

[TrinityAlps]

Point creep can't continue forever. Even for those ultra premium tags, points required to draw will eventually level off. If a youth starts building points early, he likely will get a chance at one of those hunts if he sticks with it. That's not the route I would choose for myself or my kids (I like to hunt frequently and don't care much about trophy quality), but the path to those tags is clear and open to anyone who wants to pursue it.

This is not true, and the reason why some western states had to abandon the true preference point system. Applicants were able to do the simple arithmetic and realize they would not draw in their lifetime. In order to keep people engaged, states developed new strategies like allocating some % of tags to go random or switching to a bonus point system.

 

[TrinityAlps]

Please tell me how youth recruitment will protect hunting… we will never recruit our way into being a majority of the population, oh and if we did, you wouldn’t get to hunt anymore unless you were so wealthy you could buy tags or own a hunting preserve.

I am all for kids hunting, but let’s not fool ourselves into thinking R3 or youth hunts will bring about a miracle we will always be a minority.

The answer to protecting hunting is certainly not less hunters.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

This is not true, and the reason why some western states had to abandon the true preference point system. Applicants were able to do the simple arithmetic and realize they would not draw in their lifetime. In order to keep people engaged, states developed new strategies like allocating some % of tags to go random or switching to a bonus point system.

Which part is untrue? Everybody dies or gets too old to hunt (and then dies). As long as points can't be transferred to another person and you can only gain one point per year, human longevity puts a (soft) cap on the maximum points any given tag will require. Point creep can certainly keep some tags out of some people's grasp, but I stand by my assertion that point creep can't continue ad infinitum...it will level off eventually.

 

[realunlucky]

Which part is untrue? Everybody dies or gets too old to hunt (and then dies). As long as points can't be transferred to another person and you can only gain one point per year, human longevity puts a (soft) cap on the maximum points any given tag will require. Point creep can certainly keep some tags out of some people's grasp, but I stand by my assertion that point creep can't continue ad infinitum...it will level off eventually.

So your saying all you have to do is out live your competition.

In that perspective I guess I agree that your right any tag is a possibility if you live long enough and keep buying points lol

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[cnelk]

I took a look at the CPW Youth PPs

 

[ScreamingPotato]

So your saying all you have to do is out live your competition.

In that perspective I guess I agree that your right any tag is a possibility if you live long enough and keep buying points lol

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Guys gonna start buying their kids points while they're still in the womb.

 

[MallardSX2]

Guys gonna start buying their kids points while they're still in the womb.

They likely won't fit in many wombs by the time they are allowed to start building points in Colorado. LMAO.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

So your saying all you have to do is out live your competition.

In that perspective I guess I agree that your right any tag is a possibility if you live long enough and keep buying points lol

You only need 5 points to have a chance (albeit small) at Colorado's premium tags via the hybrid draw. To be guaranteed one of those tags by drawing it straight up with preference points, then yes, you'll have to live long and be patient, which doesn't seem unfair for a once-in-a-lifetime quality tag that thousands of other folks also want.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

They likely won't fit in many wombs by the time they are allowed to start building points in Colorado. LMAO.

Just name them all the same like George Foreman, the youngest will end up being able to hunt when he's 80 years old.