Returned Elk Tags

[Mighty Mouse]

Would like to see a process where before the Secondary draw starts, people that didn’t get drawn in their target unit get a chance at those returned tags. Give them like a 3 day window to say they want to be in the drawing again.

Agreed. It's frustrating to see a tag you want and applied for 1st choice in the primary draw show up on the secondary draw list...then watch it get drawn again by someone else...then watch it get returned again...then try to snag it on leftover day but miss out because your Internet connection isn’t fast enough.

 

[COelk89]

I drew a archery pronghorn tag I burned 5 points on as a resident, it was my biggest hunt planned for the year other than picking up elk and deer left over and of course the obligatory bear (tag already secured). Then I drew NM archery elk. I know my capabilities and to give the attention required to be successful in my elk hunt without experiencing burnout as well as making sure I had time off work, I knew I needed to get rid of that pronghorn tag.

Until I read the little disclaimer at the bottom of my successful draw, I did not even realize there was an opportunity to get points and money back. Now the 47 bucks is not much and I could definitely have eaten that money, but I am also trying to reasonably budget right now while also doing the things I think I need to do to give my self the best chance at future tags while also still hunting every season. I just got done paying for an out of state elk tag, still waiting on refund money in other states and still have points and licenses to purchase in other states. Paid over a hundred dollars for a moose point and a bear tag last week to Colorado. So I opted surrendered my tag before June 3rd to get my money back and points restored. The way I see it, I pay more than my fair share to all of these agencies for my opportunities, so me surrendering my tag for money and points is not having my cake and eat it too. It is not like I get a point this year for surrendering the tag.

 

[MallardSX2]

I like it, but it’s flawed. Would like to see a process where before the Secondary draw starts, people that didn’t get drawn in their target unit get a chance at those returned tags. Give them like a 3 day window to say they want to be in the drawing again.

Watch this:

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I drew a archery pronghorn tag I burned 5 points on as a resident, it was my biggest hunt planned for the year other than picking up elk and deer left over and of course the obligatory bear (tag already secured). Then I drew NM archery elk. I know my capabilities and to give the attention required to be successful in my elk hunt without experiencing burnout as well as making sure I had time off work, I knew I needed to get rid of that pronghorn tag.

Until I read the little disclaimer at the bottom of my successful draw, I did not even realize there was an opportunity to get points and money back. Now the 47 bucks is not much and I could definitely have eaten that money, but I am also trying to reasonably budget right now while also doing the things I think I need to do to give my self the best chance at future tags while also still hunting every season. I just got done paying for an out of state elk tag, still waiting on refund money in other states and still have points and licenses to purchase in other states. Paid over a hundred dollars for a moose point and a bear tag last week to Colorado. So I opted surrendered my tag before June 3rd to get my money back and points restored. The way I see it, I pay more than my fair share to all of these agencies for my opportunities, so me surrendering my tag for money and points is not having my cake and eat it too. It is not like I get a point this year for surrendering the tag.

I don't fault you, but this is a great example of how Colorado's leniency with returns contributes to point creep. The tag you returned will now remove 0 points from the pool instead of 5. This one instance isn’t going to move the needle on overall point creep, but thousands of instances probably does. If CPW would make tags acquired via secondary draw and leftover list burn points, I wouldn't have as strong an objection to a lenient return policy. Again, I'm not faulting you in particular, you're just playing by the rules as written.

 

[The_Jim]

I have 4 kids, so I am definitely biased, but our world is so busy that any opportunity we can give a father to spend uninterrupted time with his child is a good thing regardless of how stupid the Colorado return policy is.

The tag is going to get re-issued either way. It can get picked up by someone who is smart enough to work the re-issue system or it can give a Father and his child an opportunity to take a break from the world and spent some real quality time together.

 

[Jethro]

I drew a archery pronghorn tag I burned 5 points on as a resident, it was my biggest hunt planned for the year other than picking up elk and deer left over and of course the obligatory bear (tag already secured). Then I drew NM archery elk. I know my capabilities and to give the attention required to be successful in my elk hunt without experiencing burnout as well as making sure I had time off work, I knew I needed to get rid of that pronghorn tag.

Until I read the little disclaimer at the bottom of my successful draw, I did not even realize there was an opportunity to get points and money back. Now the 47 bucks is not much and I could definitely have eaten that money, but I am also trying to reasonably budget right now while also doing the things I think I need to do to give my self the best chance at future tags while also still hunting every season. I just got done paying for an out of state elk tag, still waiting on refund money in other states and still have points and licenses to purchase in other states. Paid over a hundred dollars for a moose point and a bear tag last week to Colorado. So I opted surrendered my tag before June 3rd to get my money back and points restored. The way I see it, I pay more than my fair share to all of these agencies for my opportunities, so me surrendering my tag for money and points is not having my cake and eat it too. It is not like I get a point this year for surrendering the tag.

No shame in playing the game by the rules that are bestowed upon us. If I was given a vote on the short tag surrender period, I would vote to abolish it and I have used that loophole to my advantage on one occasion.

To the original question, if my points were involved I would surrender it now. If it was a 2nd choice tag I would return it as soon as I knew I didn't want it. I would not take the future life of that tag into consideration. If it goes in 2nd draw and a youth gets it, so be it, although I also think the 2nd draw is too heavily favored to youth. But again, I don't make the rules. Only my opinion.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Youth get preference for some tags, not all. In general I think it is better to give the next generation more opportunities or we all will suffer down the line, particularly if Colorado continues in the blue direction

We are already suffering point creep, over crowding about to lose otc… I think it’s best to educate the youth early you know

 

[COelk89]

I don't fault you, but this is a great example of how Colorado's leniency with returns contributes to point creep. The tag you returned will now remove 0 points from the pool instead of 5. This one instance isn’t going to move the needle on overall point creep, but thousands of instances probably does. If CPW would make tags acquired via secondary draw and leftover list burn points, I wouldn't have as strong an objection to a lenient return policy. Again, I'm not faulting you in particular, you're just playing by the rules as written.

I see what you mean, but if you start going down that road then you have to start pooling residents and non residents in the 2nd draw which currently there are no quotas for that or reissue tags. My 5 points is worth a hell of a lot more than a non residents 5 points for quality of hunt whether season or unit. I drew a deer tag last year with 3 points that take non resident 10 points. I bank points for deer and elk and get one or both tags off the leftover list for tags that are a 0-2 pt draw for a resident generally. You could also get those same tags every year and have the equal opportunity as me without burning your points. Would you prefer to start splitting resident/nonresident and requiring a point burn on leftover draw?

My point is I like the system now because I live here to hunt and I have the opportunity to hunt more than I can. I think that is the way it should be.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Unpopular opinion I’m sure, but 2nd draw should be Resident youth preference only, leftovers should be resident only for 24 hrs

 

[COelk89]

Unpopular opinion I’m sure, but 2nd draw should be Resident youth preference only, leftovers should be resident only for 24 hrs

I concur. Not unpopular at all. Why should non residents hiring bots to snipe tags have the same opportunity as us.

 

[GunsAreFun]

Watch this:

Can you summarize the 7 hour video? Lol

 

[High Climber]

The Youth already had a chance to get the the tag

Kinda silly that it’s youth only in the second draw, by all means a youth hunter should be able to put their name in the hat but 100% preference is odd. I never had a “special” elk or deer tag when I was a kid nor did my buddies and we still love all things hunting. Sorry just don’t buy that a kid needs a premium tag to ensure that they want to keep hunting in the future… and yes I will enter my kids for the second draw

 

[MallardSX2]

Can you summarize the 7 hour video? Lol

No. Watch it and embrace the burn.

If you know literally anything about the current system, tag allocations and preference points, you'll feel like a damn genius after hearing them talk. So, it just might be worth the watch. lol

 

[COelk89]

Just watching some of the working group meeting MallardSX2 posted. There are some good things discussed in there, the ice breaker is just the first couple of minutes and give you some of the decision makers perspective and it is as diverse as ours. One solution I heard to some of the valid surrender/point restoration complaints in this thread is to make sure the license gets offered to the next person in line. I am not sure the tag I drew will be offered to next in line since it actually only took 4 points to draw and I believe to go to next in line they have to be a 5 point resident draw on a 3 year average or something. But sending the tag to next in line could probably satisfy some of the non resident complaints that their 1st choice on the original draw ends up going out in the leftover or reissue without them getting a sniff at it. I can empathize. The elk tag I am saving points for was 2 pts a few years ago, likely to be more than 5 next year and I only have 3 right now. I don't know if I will catch up.

 

[Hnthrdr]

I concur. Not unpopular at all. Why should non residents hiring bots to snipe tags have the same opportunity as us.

Mostly unpopular with the NR crowd haha Yeah it is getting tougher and tougher with all the attention 2nd draw gets now and leftover, used to be kind of reliable… not so much anymore. Someone advocated for it and I am all for it, but their idea is you can only get a leftover or 2nd draw tag in units you applied to in the primary. Ie you put in for 1-4 choices, well those are the units you can try to get 2nd draw or leftovers in. I thought that was a solid idea honestly

 

[Lil-Rokslider]

Good point. I should have rephrased my post...CPW did ask my opinion, they just didn't heed it. I fill out every survey they send and have submitted comments on multiple occasions. Their survey questions though are often along the lines of "Would you prefer A) a turd hot dog or B) a turd hamburger?".

C) A Turd hotdog, hamburger, sandwich, and taco are all the same thing.

 

[COelk89]

Mostly unpopular with the NR crowd haha Yeah it is getting tougher and tougher with all the attention 2nd draw gets now and leftover, used to be kind of reliable… not so much anymore. Someone advocated for it and I am all for it, but their idea is you can only get a leftover or 2nd draw tag in units you applied to in the primary. Ie you put in for 1-4 choices, well those are the units you can try to get 2nd draw or leftovers in. I thought that was a solid idea honestly

Yeah that would not hurt my feelings at all. Like most folks I hunt a pretty small group of units and some of the hunts I can still somewhat reliably pick up a point and still draw second choice. Every couple years there might be one that sticks out type of thing, and honestly drawing those types of tags is just starting to occur for me as I approach a decade of playing this game a little more each year. The aforementioned surrendered tag was the most points I have ever attempted to use with only 6 years of residency in CO at the moment. I place the highest value on the opportunity to hunt but also have trophy aspirations, maybe a 60-40 split. I value those high opportunity 2nd season Rifle deer tags as maddening as they are sometimes so much just for that chance to deer hunt right outside my town. Man I hope the elk bounce back, I tried to draw cow for my choice units 4th season as a 2nd choice and no dice. Hopefully I can pick one up leftover since I will be here this Thanksgiving.

 

[COelk89]

LOL I should probably rephrase my sentence to say I hunt the same small group of units as everyone else.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Yeah that would not hurt my feelings at all. Like most folks I hunt a pretty small group of units and some of the hunts I can still somewhat reliably pick up a point and still draw second choice. Every couple years there might be one that sticks out type of thing, and honestly drawing those types of tags is just starting to occur for me as I approach a decade of playing this game a little more each year. The aforementioned surrendered tag was the most points I have ever attempted to use with only 6 years of residency in CO at the moment. I place the highest value on the opportunity to hunt but also have trophy aspirations, maybe a 60-40 split. I value those high opportunity 2nd season Rifle deer tags as maddening as they are sometimes so much just for that chance to deer hunt right outside my town. Man I hope the elk bounce back, I tried to draw cow for my choice units 4th season as a 2nd choice and no dice. Hopefully I can pick one up leftover since I will be here this Thanksgiving.

I’m with you, I am a life long resident and burned my points on a “trophy” tag last year that honestly didn’t live up to the hype for me. I think there are plenty lower point units even otc hunts where I felt more alone and saw better animals. Not to say there aren’t awesome units but I’m not one for waiting. Yep I’m in a tough spot with another kiddo coming in July and unsure of how okay my wife will be with trying to sneak out for later seasons after her maternity leave, trying to hunt close to home this year?

 

[COelk89]

I’m with you, I am a life long resident and burned my points on a “trophy” tag last year that honestly didn’t live up to the hype for me. I think there are plenty lower point units even otc hunts where I felt more alone and saw better animals. Not to say there aren’t awesome units but I’m not one for waiting. Yep I’m in a tough spot with another kiddo coming in July and unsure of how okay my wife will be with trying to sneak out for later seasons after her maternity leave, trying to hunt close to home this year?

I didn't burn a pile last year but burned 3 on a 3rd season deer tag in a unit that is a producer and I have friends who have shot 200" deer. Was a tough year after winter kill but I managed a respectable buck and my personal best. 3rd season was also awful weather last year. I had 180" aspirations and this was the best buck we saw by far and on of few. It was worth it for me, but I also learned there is a lot more to setting expectations than what others have pulled out of a unit in the past. I've heard Steve Rinella say something to the effect of "don't go chasing ghosts..." Deer are creatures of habit and inherit those habits, but units change through time for the good and bad.