Texas school shooting

[Newtosavage]

Yea I can imagine the level of anxiety you and your wife must be going through. I have a 2 year old so its starting to run through my mind daily. Our thoughts are getting her in a school that is safer with armed security or teachers or doing a joining a hippie compound where every parent pitches in one day a week teaching a smaller group of kids.

What are you wishing to be done to keep your wife and kids safe?

Unrelated, maybe not popular. But I think 18 -21 age should remain legal to purchase pistols, shotguns, bolt actions. Then 25 for the semi auto AR's of the world. Couple with that with better system for background checks and that should help mitigate school shootings.

I agree with you on the "why" schools are targeted but also would add these places are also gun free safe zones that these lunatics know they can get away with a killing spree.

Like most difficult problems, the solution will be multi-faceted and will only reduce the risk. With so many guns in our culture now, there will never be any going back. We've chosen our own fate.

Safer campuses through better design and more SRO's would be part of it. But so many communities think those things are a waste of money (meanwhile they sink millions into football stadiums). Requiring mental health screenings and proficiency testing along with a waiting period that looks something like what we have now for suppressors would be another step in the right direction. Requiring that responsible adults accept legal liability for a young person who possesses firearms would be another. Just like co-signing on a home or car loan. That could be done. Plenty of parents, uncles, people in the community could vouch for a young person. If they aren't willing to sign for them, then maybe there is a problem we all need to know about.

But the way we do school needs to change too. These kids (and some adults) are going back and shooting up schools for a reason. Because the worst experiences of their lives came from that place or a place like it. Many of them are seeking revenge for being cast out by the "cool kids" etc. when they were young. A better public education system that took care of the whole child and not just taught to the test and allowed cliques to form would help prevent some of these things too.

Giving teachers the ability to flag students so SRO's can investigate whether they have access to a firearm in their home situation would help as well.

And yes, taking away high capacity magazines is needed. Just because someone wants to play doomsday prepper or get their jollies off by blasting up a range is not enough reason for civilians to have high capacity magazines. Sportsmen and women can do all they need to do with reasonable capacity magazines. Exceptions could be granted for certain situations - again like applying for class 3 firearms or suppressors. But an individual not known to any dealer should not have access to high capacity magazines.

Again there are lots of things we can actually do if these things bother us as much as we claim they do.

 

[Newtosavage]

If we put qualifications on a right then why stop at gun ownership. Why not have qualifications for voting, thats a much more dangerous thing than owning a gun. Elected officials have killed far more “kids” than mass school shootings. Why not have qualifications for illegal search and siezure, we coud catch a whole lotta crime if we just gave up a few rights….

You are suggesting that we can make things safer by giving up some rights. And that is just ass backwards. If you want to give up freedoms to be more safe, there are other countries you can go to where you will find just that. The door is open.

And i totally understand the personal feelings on this stuff, my daughter is going to be a elementary school teacher and we have discussions often on a number of different issues with public education. Does the thought of her living thru a school shooting scare me? You bet. But i think my suggestions on how we can soend money to make scholls more safe are reasonable, reasonably accesible to acheive, and would do significant help to thwart the problem.

But again, we have to remember (not saying you didnt) the problem isnt a gun issue, its a hurting marginalized person issue. Until that is dealt with on a large scale, we will continue to see people wanting to kill other people.

We ALREADY HAVE qualifications on a "right." How many times does it have to be said?

We give up some "rights" in exchange for a safe and orderly society in which to live. This is well known and documented by our founding fathers.

And yes, PART of the problem IS a gun issue. Not admitting that is disingenuous.

 

[BjornF16]

We ALREADY HAVE qualifications on a "right." How many times does it have to be said?

We give up some "rights" in exchange for a safe and orderly society in which to live. This is well known and documented by our founding fathers.

Please give specific examples where the founders gave up or limited rights for a safe and orderly society…

 

[Newtosavage]

Alright, I'm out on this. Good discussion and I appreciate everyone having a chance to vent. We all need it right now. Summer is here and we're in for 5 months of absolute BS where I live so maybe that has me on edge. LOL I literally cannot wait for October to arrive. Every year at this time I ask myself why in the hell do I still live here.

 

[BjornF16]

Alright, I'm out on this. Good discussion and I appreciate everyone having a chance to vent. We all need it right now. Summer is here and we're in for 5 months of absolute BS where I live so maybe that has me on edge. LOL I literally cannot wait for October to arrive. Every year at this time I ask myself why in the hell do I still live here.

Ok…since you’re bailing, I’ll help you:

Wasn’t it Patrick Henry who said:

“Give me Safety, or give me Death!”

Wait…maybe it was:

“Give me Security, or give me Death!”

 

[BjornF16]

I may be confused on that great orator, Patrick Henry; but more recently in the 20th Century, the esteemed (by some) Hubert H. Humphrey, former Democrat Vice President (and liberal/progressive extraordinaire) said:

“Certainly, one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms. ... The right of the citizen to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America but which historically has proven to be always possible."

 

[JJJ]

well it's what you were trying to do.

No, I was not. I was stating my opinion on the fact that like it or not, when somebody has a group of kids, they’re responsible for them and their safety. The first line of defense. Could be a teacher or a coach or a parent watching a small group.
And if you’re gonna be that triggered I’d rather not engage with you.
I’m not your enemy

 

[ETtikka]

The media gives these killers exactly what they want, attention!!

Regardless of where someone stands on the 2A understanding, the media could be a lot smarter and quit giving these troubled kids exactly what they want

 

[Wags]

Like most difficult problems, the solution will be multi-faceted and will only reduce the risk. With so many guns in our culture now, there will never be any going back. We've chosen our own fate.

Safer campuses through better design and more SRO's would be part of it. But so many communities think those things are a waste of money (meanwhile they sink millions into football stadiums). Requiring mental health screenings and proficiency testing along with a waiting period that looks something like what we have now for suppressors would be another step in the right direction. Requiring that responsible adults accept legal liability for a young person who possesses firearms would be another. Just like co-signing on a home or car loan. That could be done. Plenty of parents, uncles, people in the community could vouch for a young person. If they aren't willing to sign for them, then maybe there is a problem we all need to know about.

But the way we do school needs to change too. These kids (and some adults) are going back and shooting up schools for a reason. Because the worst experiences of their lives came from that place or a place like it. Many of them are seeking revenge for being cast out by the "cool kids" etc. when they were young. A better public education system that took care of the whole child and not just taught to the test and allowed cliques to form would help prevent some of these things too.

Giving teachers the ability to flag students so SRO's can investigate whether they have access to a firearm in their home situation would help as well.

And yes, taking away high capacity magazines is needed. Just because someone wants to play doomsday prepper or get their jollies off by blasting up a range is not enough reason for civilians to have high capacity magazines. Sportsmen and women can do all they need to do with reasonable capacity magazines. Exceptions could be granted for certain situations - again like applying for class 3 firearms or suppressors. But an individual not known to any dealer should not have access to high capacity magazines.

Again there are lots of things we can actually do if these things bother us as much as we claim they do.

The mental health screening is a point of contention for many. We’ve all seen that medical professionals can be swayed based on agendas. That part of the process could potentially be used against citizens that are completely sane. I know we’d all like to think that wouldn’t happen however we all should know better as well.

I’ve personally not seen pushback from a community in regards to the SRO program and adding additional officers. I’m not saying that doesn’t happen, but in my area it’s been very well accepted and the community voted a tax increase to fund it. I’d say now is the time for more communities to get something voted on and add staffing to schools. If they're going to put all this effort into trying to ban a firearm they should put that effort into getting those types of Changes made NOW. I’d also start looking at physical layout & making improvements.

This shooters mom would have co signed for him. I’d put a years salary on it. There are states already have laws punishing parents who allow minors access to firearms that are used in a crime.

The wait period effectiveness is debatable. However installing an egregious wait period similar to suppressors for a gun purchase is ridiculous. Normal law abiding citizens shouldn’t have to wait months to pick up a firearm. Mandatory “testing” takes place in my state for pistols unless you have a hunting license. We also have a 10 day wait. Neither have stopped anything.

What’s stopping teachers from reporting disturbing behavior to SROs now?… they have every right to express concern.

Standard capacity mag (30) reduction won’t stop much. Most of us have a sub 2 second mag swap. I live in a state where we’re the most restricted on the AR platform. I can tell you those laws haven't changed a damn thing other than making it less enjoyable for the law abiding citizens to own them.

We all agree these things are absolutely terrible. However, evil will find a way, period. Even if we completely outlawed the AR platform these events would STILL take place. The mechanism may be different but there would still be loss of life on mass scales. I watched an insurgent throw a Molotov cocktail into a small bus full of people… imagine that being a school bus full of kids and how easy that would be for a school aged kid to make and do?…

Add more SROs, fund those agencies so they can train & maintain training. Harden the exteriors of schools & or completely rebuild them & install mechanisms to keep kids safe. Getting a local tax raise for those things should be no factor IMO.

 

[littlebigtine]

i might get eaten alive for posting this but I see it as a fair comparison. Lets be clear. I am not trying to hijack this thread and throw it into a “pro-life” “pro-death” debate BUT I see the safegaurds and restrictions put around abortion and its state laws as essentially trying desperately to achieve the same thing that I would hope all of us would agree upon what needs to be done with guns. Gun ownership is our right. But killing somebody with one is not. Because modern weapons are so incredibly deadly the prerequisites written below in my screenshot seem fair. The man in Uvalde wasnt schizo, bipolar or a “mental health patient”. He played violent video games and was bullied and the moment he turned 18 he bought 2 ARs and shot 21 people dead. He was desensitized to life. How do you try cure that? You make it mandatory to become sensitized to the reality of what guns do. I will never forget the first big game animal I killed as the most invigorating and simultaneously regretful moment of my life. That is the reverance that I (try my best to) keep everytime I aim a gun at an animal. Only when we cure a disregard for REAL life will this violence end.

 

[BjornF16]

i might get eaten alive for posting this but I see it as a fair comparison. Lets be clear. I am not trying to hijack this thread and throw it into a “pro-life” “pro-death” debate BUT I see the safegaurds and restrictions put around abortion and its state laws as essentially trying desperately to achieve the same thing that I would hope all of us would agree upon what needs to be done with guns. Gun ownership is our right. But killing somebody with one is not. Because modern weapons are so incredibly deadly the prerequisites written below in my screenshot seem fair. The man in Uvalde wasnt schizo, bipolar or a “mental health patient”. He played violent video games and was bullied and the moment he turned 18 he bought 2 ARs and shot 21 people dead. He was desensitized to life. How do you try cure that? You make it mandatory to become sensitized to the reality of what guns do. I will never forget the first big game animal I killed as the most invigorating and simultaneously regretful moment of my life. That is the reverance that I (try my best to) keep everytime I aim a gun at an animal. Only when we cure a disregard for REAL life will this violence end.

Is your real name Nelson T. Shields?

Nelson T. Shields, founder of Handgun Control Inc.: "We're going to have to take this one step at a time, and the first step is necessarily -- given the political realities -- going to be very modest. ... Right now, though, we'd be satisfied not with half a loaf but with a slice. Our ultimate goal -- total control of handguns in the United States -- is going to take time. ... The final problem is to make the possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition -- except for the military, police, licensed security guards, licensed sporting clubs and licensed gun collectors -- totally illegal" (The New Yorker, July 1976).

The Uvalde perp was mental…no sane person would purposely cut himself (self mutillation). There were other indicators as well. No one acted on them and therein lies a major problem.

self-mutilation

Definition of self-mutilation in the Medical Dictionary by The Free Dictionary

medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com

 

[GSPHUNTER]

i might get eaten alive for posting this but I see it as a fair comparison. Lets be clear. I am not trying to hijack this thread and throw it into a “pro-life” “pro-death” debate BUT I see the safegaurds and restrictions put around abortion and its state laws as essentially trying desperately to achieve the same thing that I would hope all of us would agree upon what needs to be done with guns. Gun ownership is our right. But killing somebody with one is not. Because modern weapons are so incredibly deadly the prerequisites written below in my screenshot seem fair. The man in Uvalde wasnt schizo, bipolar or a “mental health patient”. He played violent video games and was bullied and the moment he turned 18 he bought 2 ARs and shot 21 people dead. He was desensitized to life. How do you try cure that? You make it mandatory to become sensitized to the reality of what guns do. I will never forget the first big game animal I killed as the most invigorating and simultaneously regretful moment of my life. That is the reverance that I (try my best to) keep everytime I aim a gun at an animal. Only when we cure a disregard for REAL life will this violence end.View attachment 415198

Dumbest thing I have ever read.

 

[FLATHEAD]

They walk among us.

 

[littlebigtine]

Is your real name Nelson T. Shields?

Nelson T. Shields, founder of Handgun Control Inc.: "We're going to have to take this one step at a time, and the first step is necessarily -- given the political realities -- going to be very modest. ... Right now, though, we'd be satisfied not with half a loaf but with a slice. Our ultimate goal -- total control of handguns in the United States -- is going to take time. ... The final problem is to make the possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition -- except for the military, police, licensed security guards, licensed sporting clubs and licensed gun collectors -- totally illegal" (The New Yorker, July 1976).

The Uvalde perp was mental…no sane person would purposely cut himself (self mutillation). There were other indicators as well. No one acted on them and therein lies a major problem.

self-mutilation

Definition of self-mutilation in the Medical Dictionary by The Free Dictionary

medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com

I am not arguing to restrict the ownership of guns. I would like the ownership of guns to be taken more seriously.

 

[littlebigtine]

Dumbest thing I have ever read.

seems a little rash but at least its the best of the worst

 

[littlebigtine]

They walk among us.

officially hijacked

 

[*zap*]

100,000+ od deaths a year. They give out free needles....
10,000+ drunk driving deaths a year. (pelosi's hubby arrested for this yesterday)....

pelosi wants my guns but her hubby drives drunk and she is a drunk while making decisions that effect the world..

they can KMA.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

100,000+ od deaths a year. They give out free needles....
10,000+ drunk driving deaths a year. (pelosi's hubby arrested for this yesterday)....

pelosi wants my guns but her hubby drives drunk and she is a drunk while making decisions that effect the world..

they can KMA.

Ha so true. How is Pelosi still allowed to politic still?

 

[*zap*]

Someone should give her a breath test right after a vote....the disqualify her from office.

 

[Red Letters]

I’m not sure how’s she passes the breath on the mirror test to see if she’s still alive

it seems her brain has rotted causing her eyes to sink in