Texas legalizes shooting invasive sheep from a helicopter for sport

[cuerro viejo]

This is patently false.

The terms "non-game" (which refers to native animals) and "exotic animal" are each clearly defined in the Texas Parks and Wildlife code (Title 31, Part 2, Chapter 65) and are both subject to myriad regulations therein.

There are zero protections in place that would keep them from adding two lines into the wildlife code to prevent the use of exotic animals in commerce.

only thing false is the live stock part (falls under TAHC-exotics aren’t livestock) and exotic proof of ownership requirements. Exotic ownership that doesn’t meet ownership markings etc are where they stand LO property. Thus why you have to have landowner permission to retain procession. Land owner can trap and shoot or sale at will.

 

[yfarm]

“There are zero protections in place that would keep them from adding two lines into the wildlife code to prevent the use of exotic animals in commerce.”

I am trying to understand your point here, is it to suggest that this would outlaw paying to hunt exotics in Texas? You are familiar with the A&M study that showed hunting as a major source of ag income? Suspect the ag and hunting lobbyists would torpedo that. Do you believe outlawing paying for hunting access will improve access to private land in Texas for exotics?

 

[PORK]

Same thing. No ownership, need to repel that legislation

Not the same thing. Wild gives the illusion to the uninformed that they belong on the landscape.

 

[alexnelon]

“There are zero protections in place that would keep them from adding two lines into the wildlife code to prevent the use of exotic animals in commerce.”

I am trying to understand your point here, is it to suggest that this would outlaw paying to hunt exotics in Texas? You are familiar with the A&M study that showed hunting as a major source of ag income? Suspect the ag and hunting lobbyists would torpedo that. Do you believe outlawing paying for hunting access will improve access to private land in Texas for exotics?

Several people have been in this thread falsely and ignorantly claiming that exotics are somehow not subject to legislation in an attempt to combat my position that, if TPWD outlawed selling hunts for nuisance animals like hogs and Aoudad, landowners would be less motivated to feed and breed those animals.

I’m not saying anything about access or opportunity or anything like that.

I’m saying if TPWD actually wanted to get rid of aoudad to save DBH habitat, they could make it happen with a paragraph.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Not the same thing. Wild gives the illusion to the uninformed that they belong on the landscape.

valid point! Touché

 

[cuerro viejo]

Several people have been in this thread falsely and ignorantly claiming that exotics are somehow not subject to legislation in an attempt to combat my position that, if TPWD outlawed selling hunts for nuisance animals like hogs and Aoudad, landowners would be less motivated to feed and breed those animals.

I’m not saying anything about access or opportunity or anything like that.

I’m saying if TPWD actually wanted to get rid of aoudad to save DBH habitat, they could make it happen with a paragraph.

No that’s not what people said. You forget who runs this state and TPWD.

Do you think Arch "Beaver" Aplin Or Jeffery Hildebrand is going to allow state management over exotics on their ranches? Lol. You think King, Brewster, Oconner, Longfellow, Duval, Spade etc with their millions if not billions in hunting and oil revenue is going to allow that….. that’s funny.

Reason why elk got moved to exotic status and will stay there.

History. Land owners run Texas

 

[yfarm]

No question there are high fence operations in the hill country and brush country that view aoudad as a cash crop but once you get west of Ft Stockton into bighorn habitat don’t see those operations let alone aoudad specific feeding or breeding.

 

[diamond10x]

No question there are high fence operations in the hill country and brush country that view aoudad as a cash crop but once you get west of Ft Stockton into bighorn habitat don’t see those operations let alone aoudad specific feeding or breeding.

There are outfitters and ranches that make lots and lots of money off of selective harvest of aoudad for trophies instead of population control in the entire Trans Pecos. High West Outfitters says hello.

 

[yfarm]

The distinction here is the selective breeding and feeding done on high fence properties with culling versus selective hunting which is routinely practiced by hunters in virtually every locale. Are you opposed to any hunting of aoudad aside from population control? Or is it the concept of paying for access to hunt on private property whether the rancher charges that or a middleman? The most committed BH sheep hunters in Texas apparently have no issues with the hunting operation of Jim Breck Bean.
Commitment defined as individual time, political and financial capital dedicated to restoration of big horn sheep in the state.

 

[cuerro viejo]

There are outfitters and ranches that make lots and lots of money off of selective harvest of aoudad for trophies instead of population control in the entire Trans Pecos. High West Outfitters says hello.

High west use to get/guide 15 plus desert BH tags, now they are back filling it with aoudad. I’m sure they would rather not have to sell 90 plus aoudad rams to equal same revenue

 

[Q_Sertorius]

High west use to get/guide 15 plus desert BH tags, now they are back filling it with aoudad. I’m sure they would rather not have to sell 90 plus aoudad rams to equal same revenue

So… they are eradicating the aoudad on their land?


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“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[cuerro viejo]

So… they are eradicating the aoudad on their land?


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“Keep on keepin’ on…”

No, they lease. But they use to hunt/get a bunch of LO DBHS permits. To equal same revenue it takes roughly 90 guided Aoudad Rams to = 15 guides DBHS, or 10 DBHS to 55 aoudad etc. They aren’t killing 90 aoudad rams( they might but probably not) but you get the drift. They would much rather have the DBHS populations than aoudad. Same with the landowners that were on the DBHS tag rotation.

With that said with Movi and aoudad I doubt the TXDBHS ever return to that many permits again. It’s hard to get a DBHS over 8 with Movi, and 9 is about tops… so Aoudad is new Revenue replacement for DBHS if you previously had them and gravy if you didn’t.

But aoudad do compete directly with livestock stocking rates

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I just figured that anyone serious about helping native sheep species (and profiting off them) would be in favor of eradicating the exotics that compete for the same habitat.


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“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[cuerro viejo]

I just figured that anyone serious about helping native sheep species (and profiting off them) would be in favor of eradicating the exotics that compete for the same habitat.


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“Keep on keepin’ on…”

Yes and no. You don’t need a permit to hunt aoudad, but you do need one awarded to your ranch to hunt DBHS.

One thing Texas ranches don’t love is government, and especially relaying on government for a permit. With that said core DBHS mountain range is tiny compared to the 40 million plus with out DBHS, but with aoudad

 

[RdRdrFan]

I’m saying if TPWD actually wanted to get rid of aoudad to save DBH habitat, they could make it happen with a paragraph.

No they can’t. They do not have the power.

Your ignorance is relative to how things operate in the political realm in Texas is showing. ZERO chance any such reg gets implemented by TPWD or law passed by the legislature that does what you are asserting they can or would do.

If Yoskowitz himself wanted it done the Commissioners would vote it down unanimously and he would very possibly lose his job for gross incompetence. That’s how ridiculous the proposition is.

And at the state capitol you would be hard pressed to find a single legislator who would write it up. If they did it would be an issue that would finally unite both sides of the aisle. It would lose in spectacular fashion.


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[diamond10x]

High west use to get/guide 15 plus desert BH tags, now they are back filling it with aoudad. I’m sure they would rather not have to sell 90 plus aoudad rams to equal same revenue

I’m well aware of the monopoly they have on the DBH permits. They’re also on record saying they manage aoudad herds for trophy purposes and not population control.

Honestly I don’t know if they really care all that much whether they have more DBH permits vs aoudad, other than it’s a lower workload. They play both sides of the fence with trying to sustain large herds and big rams of aoudad while basically having a monopoly on the DBH permits.

If WSF, TBHS, TPWD, outfitters, and landowners were serious about controlling aoudad for the purpose of DBH and mule deer conservation and they would be doing much more than they are currently.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I’m well aware of the monopoly they have on the DBH permits. They’re also on record saying they manage aoudad herds for trophy purposes and not population control.

Honestly I don’t know if they really care all that much whether they have more DBH permits vs aoudad, other than it’s a lower workload. They play both sides of the fence with trying to sustain large herds and big rams of aoudad while basically having a monopoly on the DBH permits.

If WSF, TBHS, TPWD, outfitters, and landowners were serious about controlling aoudad for the purpose of DBH and mule deer conservation and they would be doing much more than they are currently.

You also have to remember only a select few of their leased ranches have/had Deserts, where just about every ranch in transpecos from Fort stockton to El Plaso have aoudad(or will at somepoint). When you compare time and effort DBHS pay more with less over head, but you have to have them first. Aoudad is an adaption for transpecos outfitters.

Vast majority of transpecos has aoudads, same can’t be said for DBHS. Unfortunately TXBH or WSF or TPWS cant and wont do anything realistically about aoudad. Remember I hate them, and I use shoot everyone I could. As long as Hunters pay 4500 for Niligai, or Axis or 9k for aoudad, landowners will capitalize on the revenue. This is country where stocking rates are 1-2 section per cow…


TPWD is ran by big ranches period. Hell TAHC is ran by big ranches. Pollis isnt becoming Gov of Texas any time soon, nor would he last long enough to appoint enough open seats

 

[cbeard64]

So much ignorance posing as confidence in this thread it makes my head spin.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

So much ignorance posing as confidence in this thread it makes my head spin.

What specifically?


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[cuerro viejo]

VWhat specifically?


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“Keep on keepin’ on…”

What the state can do vs will do about exotics… specifically about Aoudad/Niligi/ etc on private property.

“Will do” is ultimately where policy lies. Taking away control of exotics from LO, isn’t happening.