Struggling with cartridge selection.

[FredH]

Yes, if you want a "brush busting" bullet, a smoothbore musket would probably be about the only one that would work. Other than that, a shotgun, but nothing with a rifled barrel will be reliable for "brush busting".

Saying a gun will bust brush is missing the point. A good "brush" gun provides plenty of penetration in the animal shot at so you can break bone and reach vitals from various angles with the hoped for exit to leak blood out of.

 

[Thegman]

Saying a gun will bust brush is missing the point. A good "brush" gun provides plenty of penetration in the animal shot at so you can break bone and reach vitals from various angles with the hoped for exit to leak blood out of.

Which has nothing to do with busting through brush for the bullet to get to said animal...

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Yes, if you want a "brush busting" bullet, a smoothbore musket would probably be about the only one that would work. Other than that, a shotgun, but nothing with a rifled barrel will be reliable for "brush busting".

.50 BMG does really well too. Especially with Black Tips.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[Ringbill27]

Did you ever mod a magazine? Moving the feed lips back to the center of the groove fixed all of my feed problems. I was in a hurry and used the corner on a grinder wheel. Ought to clean it up a bit with a dremel but both mags I did work just fine.

I heavily modded my mag but have not taken the feed lips back that far. I’ll give it a go.

Saying a gun will bust brush is missing the point. A good "brush" gun provides plenty of penetration in the animal shot at so you can break bone and reach vitals from various angles with the hoped for exit to leak blood out of.

This is what I’m looking for. I like two holes in an animal.

Which has nothing to do with busting through brush for the bullet to get to said animal...

I never actually said brush busting.

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

You seem ill informed. soft point bullets expand, lose some weight and if all goes well exit. Lots of damage. 2600 fps must not be all that slow as the 223 77 gr. TMK from the average 16" barrel runs about that speed. Now if you are talkiing about a 45-70 running 400 grain bullets yes.

Not sure how I am "ill informed", when just repeating my personal experiences over a few decades of hunting, LOL. I have personally shot or seen my wife shoot dozens of critters with heavy slow bullets, 100% of them that were not CNS hits did not bang-flop (but they did 100% not go very far and come home in my truck after). That covers 168s at 2650 out of a 308, 180s out of a 303 British, 180s at 2700 out of a 30-06, even 150s out of a 308 at 2800, etc. All the bang-flops I've seen that were not CNS hits (half dozen or so) had an impact velocity north of 3k FPS. Not saying 3k FPS is a requirement, just what I have observed first hand.

 

[StupidLightweight]

My opinion is this: for brush hunting, pulling the .243 barrel is a step backwards in both performance and price. You'll be money ahead to chop it at 16 inches, thread it, and run your .30-cal can. I don't think there's a cartridge on earth that'll outperform a .243 from close to mid-range distances.

Now, if the goal was a long-range hunting hammer, then I could see the advantages of rebarreling to run a faster-twist barrel for high-BC projectiles. Save your money and time. Don't rebarrel!

 

[FredH]

Not sure how I am "ill informed", when just repeating my personal experiences over a few decades of hunting, LOL. I have personally shot or seen my wife shoot dozens of critters with heavy slow bullets, 100% of them that were not CNS hits did not bang-flop (but they did 100% not go very far and come home in my truck after). That covers 168s at 2650 out of a 308, 180s out of a 303 British, 180s at 2700 out of a 30-06, even 150s out of a 308 at 2800, etc. All the bang-flops I've seen that were not CNS hits (half dozen or so) had an impact velocity north of 3k FPS. Not saying 3k FPS is a requirement, just what I have observed first hand.

Sad, my luck has been much better. There are plenty of 30 caliber bullets that expand very quickly and put game down fast. I personally like for them to run a bit with a lung shot to give the heart time to pump the blood into the chest. I would have to say the all time favorite medium velocity deer dropper for me has been a .358 diameter 200 gr. round nosed corelokt started at 2500 fps.

 

[Schmo]

Sad, my luck has been much better. There are plenty of 30 caliber bullets that expand very quickly and put game down fast. I personally like for them to run a bit with a lung shot to give the heart time to pump the blood into the chest. I would have to say the all time favorite medium velocity deer dropper for me has been a .358 diameter 200 gr. round nosed corelokt started at 2500 fps.

Now we’ve seen it all. Everyone wants them dead as fast and possible, and you want them to run. Kinda mind blowing honestly. There’s no need for them to run.

 

[FredH]

Now we’ve seen it all. Everyone wants them dead as fast and possible, and you want them to run. Kinda mind blowing honestly. There’s no need for them to run.

20 yards means nothing. No matter what you shoot you will have one run a ways. Unlike you confetti bullet lovers who obviously hate eating hearts and don't mind smearing lead fragments everywhere I am just going to keep doing what has worked for me since 1971. In that time I have used all kinds of bullets and gone through more than a few bullet fads. There was a time when Hornady would post bullet adds in magazines like Guns&Ammo bragging that their bullet would stay inside and not exit. Hornady Spire points have always been pretty soft in mid weight for caliber bullets. Controlled expansion can be described as what the bullet designer considers control. The Ballistic Tip when it first came out was too soft in many peoples minds and now the mid and upper weight for caliber Ballistic Tips are fast opening and weight retaining very good bullets. Sierra bullets were at one time heavily derided for being too soft and not penetrating enough. Now the Gamekings are very good controlled expansion bullets. The TMK's are there for those who like fragments. It is OK to not.

 

[Schmo]

20 yards means nothing. No matter what you shoot you will have one run a ways. Unlike you confetti bullet lovers who obviously hate eating hearts and don't mind smearing lead fragments everywhere I am just going to keep doing what has worked for me since 1971. In that time I have used all kinds of bullets and gone through more than a few bullet fads. There was a time when Hornady would post bullet adds in magazines like Guns&Ammo bragging that their bullet would stay inside and not exit. Hornady Spire points have always been pretty soft in mid weight for caliber bullets. Controlled expansion can be described as what the bullet designer considers control. The Ballistic Tip when it first came out was too soft in many peoples minds and now the mid and upper weight for caliber Ballistic Tips are fast opening and weight retaining very good bullets. Sierra bullets were at one time heavily derided for being too soft and not penetrating enough. Now the Gamekings are very good controlled expansion bullets. The TMK's are there for those who like fragments. It is OK to not.

My bad. I’m sorry for using bullets that kill game quickly and cleanly. I guess I need to go to tougher bullets “so they can run a ways”. I’m sorry for using the most ethical solution.

Oh, btw, I don’t use bullets because it’s a fad, I use them because they work really well.

 

[wind gypsy]

https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y...F9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/r4NGi8DEuuH2E/giphy.gif

 

[KenLee]

20 yards means nothing. No matter what you shoot you will have one run a ways. Unlike you confetti bullet lovers who obviously hate eating hearts and don't mind smearing lead fragments everywhere I am just going to keep doing what has worked for me since 1971. In that time I have used all kinds of bullets and gone through more than a few bullet fads. There was a time when Hornady would post bullet adds in magazines like Guns&Ammo bragging that their bullet would stay inside and not exit. Hornady Spire points have always been pretty soft in mid weight for caliber bullets. Controlled expansion can be described as what the bullet designer considers control. The Ballistic Tip when it first came out was too soft in many peoples minds and now the mid and upper weight for caliber Ballistic Tips are fast opening and weight retaining very good bullets. Sierra bullets were at one time heavily derided for being too soft and not penetrating enough. Now the Gamekings are very good controlled expansion bullets. The TMK's are there for those who like fragments. It is OK to not.

"Confetti bullets"!!!
That's above my creativity. Ill just stick to "splatter bullets".

 

[KenLee]

https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y...F9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/r4NGi8DEuuH2E/giphy.gif

Rot-ney!

 

[Q_Sertorius]

20 yards means nothing. No matter what you shoot you will have one run a ways. Unlike you confetti bullet lovers who obviously hate eating hearts and don't mind smearing lead fragments everywhere I am just going to keep doing what has worked for me since 1971. In that time I have used all kinds of bullets and gone through more than a few bullet fads. There was a time when Hornady would post bullet adds in magazines like Guns&Ammo bragging that their bullet would stay inside and not exit. Hornady Spire points have always been pretty soft in mid weight for caliber bullets. Controlled expansion can be described as what the bullet designer considers control. The Ballistic Tip when it first came out was too soft in many peoples minds and now the mid and upper weight for caliber Ballistic Tips are fast opening and weight retaining very good bullets. Sierra bullets were at one time heavily derided for being too soft and not penetrating enough. Now the Gamekings are very good controlled expansion bullets. The TMK's are there for those who like fragments. It is OK to not.

It’s shocking to me that the firearms industry would constantly seek to sell more and “better” gear to consumers.

Consumer shoots deer with muzzleloader. Everyone is happy for about 300 years.

Consumer misses many deer because he rarely can afford to practice unless he is a professional hunter or aristocrat.

Cartridges and machine-rifling are invented. Industry proliferates. Many new cartridges are introduced. Many more quickly become obsolete. Consumer shoots many animals with .44-40’s and .45-70’s.

Consumer misses many deer because he rarely can afford to practice unless he is a professional hunter or aristocrat.

Smokeless powder is invented! All blackpowder rifles are obsolete! Industry celebrates!

Consumer uses .30-30 Winchester and equivalents to kill many deer. Everyone is happy because they don't have to shoot 500-grain bullets and the recoil is so mild relative to that.

Consumer misses many deer because he rarely can afford to practice unless he is a professional hunter or rich.

Industry introduces “far superior” cartridges better for the bolt actions that are military standard now. Consumer starts using .30-06 and equivalents to shoot deer. Many, many deer are killed. As one would expect with cartridges designed to kill dangerous 150-250 pound mammals at 2000 yards.

Consumer misses many deer because he rarely can afford to practice unless he is a professional hunter or rich.

Industry revives long-range marksmanship competitions previously done with black powder weapons and switches them to modern cartridges.

Industry offers awesome new .300 Winchester Magnum! It delivers way more velocity and a flatter trajectory than that puny old .30-06! No one can win a long-range competition competing against it!

Industry celebrates!

Consumer takes .300 Win Mag out deer hunting and blows the front shoulders totally to hell.

Consumer misses many deer because he rarely can afford to practice unless he is a professional hunter or rich.

Industry offers a “tougher bonded bullet with controlled expansion.”

Consumer gets tired of his shoulder hurting, so he switches to the new .308 Winchester. Which is based on a military cartridge and rifle combination that was basically obsolete before it was issued.

Consumer uses the tough bonded bullet in his .308 Winchester to shoot deer. It doesn’t perform well.

Consumer misses many deer because he rarely can afford to practice unless he is a professional hunter or rich.

Industry offers him a super fast cartridge that “kills with hydrostatic shock!.” Sells many magnum rifles. Many more deer shoulders are blown to hell. Consumers shoulder is still sore, but he won’t dare admit that he’s a pussy.

Consumer misses many deer because he rarely can afford to practice unless he is a professional hunter or rich. And his shoulder hurts. He’s probably better off not practicing and just winging it.

Military adopts 5.56, based on a puny little varmint cartridge, for killing 150-250 pound mammals with lethal intent. Army changes powder and doesn’t issue cleaning kits. It turns out that killing people with this combination is hard. Army establishment says, “we should have kept the M-14.” But smarter people know better, so they simply fix the M-16 and the old M193 ammo.

There are fewer consumers hunting every year. Industry lobbies to have as many different seasons as possible to sell a bow, a muzzleloader, a shotgun, a rifle, an atlatl, and a Javelin missile to each hunter. Each season is about two weeks long.

Consumer now has to be proficient with many different weapons if he wants to hunt. But he still doesn’t have any money for ammo since he has to buy all those different weapons. And he doesn't have any time because he has to be proficient with all those weapons. So, to make himself more sure of success, he has to chase the latest and greatest technology to succeed in the two weeks of each season.

Industry rejoices!

Consumer misses many deer because he rarely can afford to practice unless he is a professional hunter or rich.

America gets into a bunch of new wars. This forces the military to perfect the M-16 platform and its ammo. Eventually, the OTM that is “only open-tipped for superior ballistic performance” turns out to be ******* great at killing 150-250 pound mammals. A new generation of warriors - and a lot of people who “almost joined the military, but…” - learns that it is fun as **** to shoot 5.56. A lot. And you can get really good when you do that. These red-blooded Americans - a dying breed - and those who want to be like them, are just about the only people who still hunt except for the most stubborn and conservative people on the planet. Those people still go to church because their daddies did. And they hold just as fiercely to their fathers’ gun lore. Good pistols have a “four” in the cartridge name and all hail the .30-30 (“if you are a kid”), the .30-06 (“it was good enough for your grandpappy on D-Day.”), the .308 (“it’s just as good as the .30-06! We would have won Vietnam if we kept using the M-14!”), and .300 Winchester Magnum (“if you are man enough to shoot it! You are, right?”).

The industry continues to offer new .30-30, .30-06, .308, and .300 Winchester Magnum equivalents, while occasionally changing the bore diameter and bullet type. Boomers continue to disparage 5.56 because it sucked in Vietnam. Boomers run Fish and Wildlife in many states, so we still can’t use 5.56 for deer. And the industry would rather that everyone owns eight hunting weapons than one.

The industry is very happy.

Consumer misses many deer because he rarely can afford to practice unless he is a professional hunter or rich.

But don't worry, the industry promises him that the 2026 model will make up for all his shortcomings!
____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[KenLee]

It’s shocking to me that the firearms industry would constantly seek to sell more and “better” gear to consumers.

Consumer shoots deer with muzzleloader. Everyone is happy for about 300 years.

Consumer misses many deer because he rarely can afford to practice unless he is a professional hunter or aristocrat.

Cartridges and machine-rifling are invented. Industry proliferates. Many new cartridges are introduced. Many more quickly become obsolete. Consumer shoots many animals with .44-40’s and .45-70’s.

Consumer misses many deer because he rarely can afford to practice unless he is a professional hunter or aristocrat.

Smokeless powder is invented! All blackpowder rifles are obsolete! Industry celebrates!

Consumer uses .30-30 Winchester and equivalents to kill many deer.

Consumer misses many deer because he rarely can afford to practice unless he is a professional hunter or rich.

Industry introduces “far superior” cartridges better for the bolt actions that are military standard now. Consumer starts using .30-06 and equivalents. to shoot deer. Many, many deer are killed.

Consumer misses many deer because he rarely can afford to practice unless he is a professional hunter or rich.

Industry revives long-range marksmanship competitions previously done with black powder weapons and switches them to modern cartridges.

Industry offers awesome new .300 Winchester Magnum! It delivers way more velocity and a flatter trajectory than that puny old .30-06! No one can win a long-range competition competing against it!

Industry celebrates!

Consumer takes .300 Win Mag out deer hunting and blows the front shoulders totally to hell.

Consumer misses many deer because he rarely can afford to practice unless he is a professional hunter or rich.

Industry offers a “tougher bonded bullet with controlled expansion.”

Consumer gets tired of his shoulder hurting, so he switches to the new .308 Winchester. Which is based on a military cartridge and rifle combination that was basically obsolete before it was issued.

Consumer uses the tough bonded bullet in his .308 Winchester to shoot deer. It doesn’t perform well.

Consumer misses many deer because he rarely can afford to practice unless he is a professional hunter or rich.

Industry offers him a super fast cartridge that “kills with hydrostatic shock!.” Sells many magnum rifles. Many more deer shoulders are blown to hell. Consumers shoulder is still sore, but he won’t dare admit that he’s a pussy.

Consumer misses many deer because he rarely can afford to practice unless he is a professional hunter or rich. And his shoulder hurts. He’s probably better off not practicing and just winging it.

Military adopts 5.56, based on a puny little varmint cartridge, for killing 150-250 pound mammals with lethal intent. Army changes powder and doesn’t issue cleaning kits. It turns out that killing people with this combination is hard. Army establishment says, “we should have kept the M-14.” But smarter people know better, so they simply fix the M-16 and the old M193 ammo.

There are fewer consumers hunting every year. Industry lobbies to have as many different seasons as possible to sell a bow, a muzzleloader, a shotgun, a rifle, an atlatl, and a Javelin missile to each hunter. Each season is about two weeks long.

Consumer now has to be proficient with many different weapons if he wants to hunt. But he still doesn’t have any money for ammo since he has to buy all those different weapons. And he doesn't have any time because he has to be proficient with all those weapons. So, to make himself more sure of success, he has to chase the latest and greatest technology to succeed in the two weeks of each season.

Industry rejoices!

Consumer misses many deer because he rarely can afford to practice unless he is a professional hunter or rich.

America gets into a bunch of new wars. This forces the military to perfect the M-16 platform and its ammo. Eventually, the OTM that is “only open-tipped for superior ballistic performance” turns out to be ******* great at killing 150-250 pound mammals. A new generation of warriors - and a lot of people who “almost joined the military, but…” - learns that it is fun as **** to shoot 5.56. A lot. And you can get really good when you do that. These red-blooded Americans - a dying breed - and those who want to be like them, are just about the only people who still hunt except for the most stubborn and conservative people on the planet. Those people still go to church because their daddies did. And they hold just as fiercely to their fathers’ gun lore. Good pistols have a “four” in the cartridge name and all hail the .30-30 (“if you are a kid”), the .30-06 (“it was good enough for your grandpappy on D-Day.”), the .308 (“it’s just as good as the .30-06! We would have won Vietnam if we kept using the M-14!”), and .300 Winchester Magnum (“if you are man enough to shoot it! You are, right?”).

The industry continues to offer new .30-30, .30-06, .308, and .300 Winchester Magnum equivalents, while occasionally changing the bore diameter and bullet type. Boomers continue to disparage 5.56 because it sucked in Vietnam. Boomers run Fish and Wildlife in many states, so we still can’t use 5.56 for deer. And the industry would rather that everyone owns eight hunting weapons than one.

The industry is very happy.

Consumer misses many deer because he rarely can afford to practice unless he is a professional hunter or rich.

But don't worry, the industry promises him that the 2026 model will make up for all his shortcomings!
____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

"We don't need to f'n practice, Randy!"

 

[FredH]

Which has nothing to do with busting through brush for the bullet to get to said animal...

Exactly.

 

[Sniper4hire]

Welp,
It took me contributing to one thread as a new member to see we have a bunch of ego maniac, know it all petty little bitch boys group on here. bye now.

 

[06 SB]

338 Federal and do not look back.

 

[HandgunHTR]

Welp,
It took me contributing to one thread as a new member to see we have a bunch of ego maniac, know it all petty little bitch boys group on here. bye now.

Oh NO! People on the internet have opinions and they differ from mine!

I must throw a tantrum and call everyone names then leave. That will show them.

 

[Reburn]

Welp,
It took me contributing to one thread as a new member to see we have a bunch of ego maniac, know it all petty little bitch boys group on here. bye now.