Struggling with cartridge selection.

[Okie_Poke]

Welp,
It took me contributing to one thread as a new member to see we have a bunch of ego maniac, know it all petty little bitch boys group on here. bye now.

 

[UnckleBob]

I picked up a Tikka T3x 243win youth last year with the intention of pulling the barrel and rechambering in something.

I’ve been struggling with what that new cartridge would be. I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about the purpose of this rifle? I’ve narrowed it down to a short barreled lightweight brush stalker running heavies for whitetail. Looking for a good chance for bang flops.

I’ve tossed around the 308win running 200-220s, 358win and even the 450 BM as options.

I have a 30cal can but wouldn’t be opposed to a larger one down the road. I do reload so ammo selection isn’t a worry. Bullet selection could be.

The 358win is winning the fight so far. Thoughts?

After reading through the thread, I realize you want something different. I assume you want to keep the same bolt, so I have limited my suggestions to fit that criteria.

1) The 7BC is supposed to be awesome with short barrels. Frankly, I want you to build one so that I can see your results.

2) 8.6BO if you want to shoot suppressed.

3) 35 Whelen

Btw - I think a short 243 would be unique and fit your needs. But, I get your project as well. Let us know how your build turns out.

 

[Ringbill27]

1) The 7BC is supposed to be awesome with short barrels. Frankly, I want you to build one so that I can see your results.

It’s kinda of interesting but I haven’t looked into it since it was released. Have they figured out how to reload the 7BC yet?

 

[FredH]

It’s kinda of interesting but I haven’t looked into it since it was released. Have they figured out how to reload the 7BC yet?

Well 80K psi is going to be super loud. Hard to say if you would want to do it without a high quality suppressor. In fact I consider the 7 BC to be exactly not what I want in a hunting cartridge, a gimmick to get what we already have several times over in standard cartridges. The same technology has shown to be a disaster in the military in the 277 Fury.

 

[UnckleBob]

Well 80K psi is going to be super loud. Hard to say if you would want to do it without a high quality suppressor. In fact I consider the 7 BC to be exactly not what I want in a hunting cartridge, a gimmick to get what we already have several times over in standard cartridges. The same technology has shown to be a disaster in the military in the 277 Fury.

The 7 BC was designed around the fact suppressor users (like me) want compact rifles without giving up performance.

If someone orders a 7 BC and doesn't plan to use a suppressor, I agree that there are better options.

 

[z987k]

Well 80K psi is going to be super loud. Hard to say if you would want to do it without a high quality suppressor. In fact I consider the 7 BC to be exactly not what I want in a hunting cartridge, a gimmick to get what we already have several times over in standard cartridges. The same technology has shown to be a disaster in the military in the 277 Fury.

How has it been a disaster? Have you shot 277 fury from a bolt rifle? Have you hunted with it?

 

[FredH]

How has it been a disaster? Have you shot 277 fury from a bolt rifle? Have you hunted with it?

Case separations, weight of ammo, burning out suppressors, handles like crap in the military semi auto. No I haven't shot a Fury in a bolt gun. I mean I already have a 270 so what is the point.

 

[z987k]

Case separations, weight of ammo, burning out suppressors, handles like crap in the military semi auto. No I haven't shot a Fury in a bolt gun. I mean I already have a 270 so what is the point.

It outperforms a 270win by quite a bit. With less recoil.
Gives you at least 1 more down than a 270wsm with equal performance for barrel length with a lot less recoil.

I can see it possibly not working out for the military but all those points mean nothing to a hunter.
Its lighter than anything else in its performance category. It recoil less than anything else in its category. We don't do strings of fire or auto. And bolt guns, that take pressure the best of any actions work fine with it.

 

[wind gypsy]

Case separations, weight of ammo, burning out suppressors, handles like crap in the military semi auto. No I haven't shot a Fury in a bolt gun. I mean I already have a 270 so what is the point.

Got any links showing this info? I'd like to read more. Sounds about like one would expect the result to be throwing crazy pressure behind heavier bullets in a battle rifle..

 

[FredH]

Got any links showing this info? I'd like to read more. Sounds about like one would expect the result to be throwing crazy pressure behind heavier bullets in a battle rifle..

The cases are two piece so that adds to the problem. Suppressors require different gas settings than unsuppressed.

 

[FredH]

It outperforms a 270win by quite a bit. With less recoil.
Gives you at least 1 more down than a 270wsm with equal performance for barrel length with a lot less recoil.

I can see it possibly not working out for the military but all those points mean nothing to a hunter.
Its lighter than anything else in its performance category. It recoil less than anything else in its category. We don't do strings of fire or auto. And bolt guns, that take pressure the best of any actions work fine with it.

Not less recoil. Velocities are not as advertized. It is nothing more than the 308 case necked down to .277 and a steel head added. As a military cartridge the 7.62x51 is a far better overall choice. Interesting that uppers for the Sig rifle are available in 6.5 Creedmoor and 7.62x51.

 

[HandgunHTR]

The cases are two piece so that adds to the problem. Suppressors require different gas settings than unsuppressed.

So, you state that the cartridge is a problem for the military and then post up something that is mostly about 1) a problem with the weapons system and 2)the fact that the Army decided that a 140 round load out was adequate.
You additionally stated that the "weight of the ammo" was a concern and then advocate for them going back to the 7.62X51? How does that make sense?

As a counterpoint, there are people out there using the Fury brass to push standard 308 based cartridges to new heights.

https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/ackley-improved.383755/page-8 (check out lancetkenyon's posts about his 260AI).

 

[z987k]

Not less recoil. Velocities are not as advertized. It is nothing more than the 308 case necked down to .277 and a steel head added. As a military cartridge the 7.62x51 is a far better overall choice. Interesting that uppers for the Sig rifle are available in 6.5 Creedmoor and 7.62x51.

Yes less recoil. You must not be familiar with how recoil works, but the powder mass must also be accelerated in addition to the bullet weight. A smaller powder mass moving the same bullet the same speed will always have less recoil. In the case of a 277 fury vs 270wsm(it's ballistic equivalent), it's about 15% less recoil energy.

It's not quite a 308 necked down. The shoulder is pushed forward quite a bit and it's at a sharper angle. It's more like a 277-08AI with the steel case head. It has about 2gr H2O more case capacity than a 308.

I don't really care if the military likes it. Even in an all brass case, this is a really good hunting cartridge if someone want's to shoot 27 cal. I couldn't think of a better one in 27 for an all purpose 27 cal. Within 50fps of 270 win(brass case) in a short action, again less recoil, deadly to well past what almost anyone is actually capable of shooting game. Fully modernized with the 1-7 saami spec twist, AI shoulder.

 

[FredH]

So, you state that the cartridge is a problem for the military and then post up something that is mostly about 1) a problem with the weapons system and 2)the fact that the Army decided that a 140 round load out was adequate.
You additionally stated that the "weight of the ammo" was a concern and then advocate for them going back to the 7.62X51? How does that make sense?

As a counterpoint, there are people out there using the Fury brass to push standard 308 based cartridges to new heights.

https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/ackley-improved.383755/page-8 (check out lancetkenyon's posts about his 260AI).

It is interesting that your take is usually some 30 degrees off top dead center. Yes the cartridge misses on several points. Reliability with a 80K psi round is sketchy. It burns out suppressors quickly. I didn't advocate going back to the 7.62x51 only that it is better as to reliability in military semi auto rifles. It also is not true that the Army made the decision that 140 rounds is adequate, that would be the kickback artists working with Sig, obviously no one that has carried a rifle into today's battlefields considers 140 rounds adequate.

Also who cares what a bunch of wildcatters come up with? Another fad that will pass. Burned out barrels and speeds few actually need.

 

[Sandhills]

That’s what I’m looking for in a cartridge.

405 Winchester. Barnes makes a bullet for it I believe

 

[Ringbill27]

405 Winchester. Barnes makes a bullet for it I believe

Uffda I like it! Being rimmed not sure it would work in a tikka. I like where your heads at tho. Big, different and coppers.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Welp,
It took me contributing to one thread as a new member to see we have a bunch of ego maniac, know it all petty little bitch boys group on here. bye now.

Ah. You’ll be alright man. Take some time to read a bit here and then go try things for yourself and report back.

Also, you can’t leave. I was wondering what your rates are, as I am currently in the need of a sniper to shoot along side me and teach me the ways.

 

[Ringbill27]

Burned out barrels and speeds few actually need.

From all the reading I’ve done across all the threads on this forum. The conclusion I’ve come to is that most on here don’t care about burning out barrels or having too much speed.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

From all the reading I’ve done across all the threads on this forum. The conclusion I’ve come to is that most on here don’t care about burning out barrels or having too much speed.

Yeah it’s insane the amount of guys who complain on here about barrel life and then shoot just a couple boxes of ammo a year max.

I have two 22 Creed barrels over 2K rounds now and are showing no signs of slowing yet. I was told that is a 1,200 round max cartridge.

 

[FredH]

Yeah it’s insane the amount of guys who complain on here about barrel life and then shoot just a couple boxes of ammo a year max.

I have two 22 Creed barrels over 2K rounds now and are showing no signs of slowing yet. I was told that is a 1,200 round max cartridge.

What make barrels? Stainless?