Struggling to see the point of 6.5's

[Darryle]

You guys are light years ahead of me, I look at what a particular cartridge can do for me and my hunting scenario. I have three 280 Ackleys, the last to show up was a 6 1/4lb Pierce Titanium. I have no need for another 7mm.

The 6.5 Creedmoor gives me plenty of trigger time, low recoil, ability to spot my hits and misses and the ability to hunt out to 500yds if I desire.

I have used this article to help educate a new shooter or co-worker wanting a first or new rifle. It is probably not anything any of y'all didn't already know, but I like how it breaks down a few things. It is also nice to point a new hunter to Academy or Gritr and they walk in and find a good variety of ammo on the shelf ready to go.

Starline 6.5 Creedmoor Pdf

Regardless, I am enjoying the discussion y'all are having.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

BC compensates greatly for wind- it’s by far the biggest factor in wind drift. MV only helps at ranges that really are the easiest to judge wind at.




What 6.5 mono has a BC of .590?

Form, what do you make of the G9 Defense 6.5 CM 113g. Long Range Hunter with a MV of 3150 (24" bbl) and a BC of .585? They are Brass as opposed to Copper and the two part design, reportedly, expands into the low 1,000's fps.
When I run the numbers, they appear to really outperform the 127 LRX with their .478 BC and slower velocity.

 

[Kenn]

I'm struggling to see the point of offering an opinion to someone who already knows everything.

 

[Newtosavage]

I'm struggling to see the point of offering an opinion to someone who already knows everything.

And yet you still couldn't help yourself.

And they say conservatives don't believe in cancel culture.

 

[Formidilosus]

Form, what do you make of the G9 Defense 6.5 CM 113g. Long Range Hunter with a MV of 3150 (24" bbl) and a BC of .585? They are Brass as opposed to Copper and the two part design, reportedly, expands into the low 1,000's fps.
When I run the numbers, they appear to really outperform the 127 LRX with their .478 BC and slower velocity.

Well, I can’t find much info about them. One, it’s highly improbable that the 113gr has a .585 bc. Two, I would need to see legitimate terminal ballistics testing in properly calibrated 10% organic gel at high, mid, and low impact velocities. But there is no magic here, monos- all of them create relatively narrow, deep penetrating wounds compared to lead core fragmenting projectiles.

 

[Newtosavage]

Well, I can’t find much info about them. One, it’s highly improbable that the 113gr has a .585 bc. Two, I would need to see legitimate terminal ballistics testing in properly calibrated 10% organic gel at high, mid, and low impact velocities. But there is no magic here, monos- all of them create relatively narrow, deep penetrating wounds compared to lead core fragmenting projectiles.

Form, I respect your experience in this area so let me ask you - would you leave this barrel a 6.5 CM or have it rechambered to 6.5 PRC, or just go with something else altogether? Because that's really what I'm trying to decide. Thanks.

 

[Formidilosus]

Could you run whatever numbers you run VS the 6.5creed for a 6 creed? It seems high BC at high velocity while staying under X recoil threshold is the winner for hit probability. So, in Colorado a good big game choice for hit probability might be a 115 Berger from a 6creed VS a 6.5creed load of similar recoil?

A 112gr Barnes MatchBurner (.624 G1) at 2,900fps is a 91% hit rate at 400y-

Also, I am curious how those same bullets from your 6.5creed screenshots probability compares when velocity increases say for 6.5PRC, 6.5-300 etc., or decreases 6.5br, 6.5grendel, etc. I am certain there's intersection where velocity/recoil helps and where it becomes detrimental.

147gr ELD-M at 3,240fps MV (26Nos) has a 96% hit rate-


Worth noting that 5% is about where you start noticing differences in the field when shooting a lot. This is also keeping the rifle precision ES the same at 1moa and that’s is not reality at all.


6.5 Grendel at 2,400fps MV with 147gr ELD-M is an 85% hit rate at 400y-

 

[Rick M.]

Form's got me digging into the 6mm CM now. Seems like a great choice for deer and antelope when using copper monos.

 

[Formidilosus]

Form, I respect your experience in this area so let me ask you - would you leave this barrel a 6.5 CM or have it rechambered to 6.5 PRC, or just go with something else altogether? Because that's really what I'm trying to decide. Thanks.

I mean this genuinely- I would start with what makes you happy.

Having said that, for me, I would drop to a 6CM or 22CM. You get higher MV and higher impact velocity, the same or higher hit rate, lower recoil, and because of monos and the increased impact speed, expanded diameter and wound channels will be so similar in all of them as to be indistinguishable.

 

[Newtosavage]

I mean this genuinely- I would start with what makes you happy.

Having said that, for me, I would drop to a 6CM or 22CM. You get higher MV and higher impact velocity, the same or higher hit rate, lower recoil, and because of monos and the increased impact speed, expanded diameter and wound channels will be so similar in all of them as to be indistinguishable.

That's good advice but I'm trying to figure out what would make me happy.

6CM makes more sense to me, from what I know about it. I'll look into that.

So your silence on the 6.5 PRC is an omission or on purpose?

Thanks.

 

[fwafwow]

 

[grfox92]

Is that reality? Can you please point out anyone in this thread that is objectively doing what you stated? Who has said anything remotely close to “the greatness of the mighty 6.5”? The OP asked for what he missing, and people are replying with exactly what he is missing, generally with facts.

I think you misinterpreted my point. This thread went from 0-200 posts in less then 24 hours. I can think of a handful of threads that have ever grown that fast on this forum.

You missed the sarcasm. This thread actually has me strongly considering getting a 6.5cm. When I do I'm hoping you can help me pick a scope.

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

 

[z987k]

A 112gr Barnes MatchBurner (.624 G1) at 2,900fps is a 91% hit rate at 400y-
View attachment 484235







147gr ELD-M at 3,240fps MV (26Nos) has a 96% hit rate-
View attachment 484238

Worth noting that 5% is about where you start noticing differences in the field when shooting a lot. This is also keeping the rifle precision ES the same at 1moa and that’s is not reality at all.


6.5 Grendel at 2,400fps MV with 147gr ELD-M is an 85% hit rate at 400y-

View attachment 484241

I don't see it as a factor, but does it model recoil and have that have an impact on accuracy? I don't think the average hunter is going to shoot a 26nos as well as a 6.5cm.

 

[Newtosavage]

View attachment 484244

well at least you are getting entertainment value out of the discussion. that's not nothing.

 

[Formidilosus]

That's good advice but I'm trying to figure out what would make me happy.
So your silence on the 6.5 PRC is an omission or on purpose?

Thanks.

Haha. No. The 6.5 PRC is a good round. It just recoils more and I understand you have said it’s below your limit, it’s just that with monos there isn’t nearly the increase in terminal performance from one caliber to the next. So unless it just scratches an itch for you, it’s more expense and more recoil for no real gain.

 

[amassi]

They are incredibly popular outside of Cali. I'm not sure why you would think otherwise.

Well they certainly aren't popular in California

 

[Formidilosus]

I don't see it as a factor, but does it model recoil and have that have an impact on accuracy? I don't think the average hunter is going to shoot a 26nos as well as a 6.5cm.

It does not. So that goes into the Rifle Precision part, and it’s important to know that the system is using a 95% probability scenario. So that means “precision” isn’t your best group, or what you think it should do, it’s based off of a a 30 shot extreme spread.

As for recoil and hits in the field (even prone) the difference between 14ft-lbs recoil (6.5cm) and 32ft-lbs of recoil (26nos) is massive. From seeing and testing a lot of shooters (a lot), if a person is a legit 1 MOA shooter (95% probability) in the field with a 6.5 cm level recoil; they are a 2 to 2.5 MOA shooter at least with 30ft-lbs.

I don’t talk about recoil because I am a wimp- I shoot magnums more than most people alive, have killed very large amounts of game with big magnums, and shoot them objectively very well. I talk about it because I constantly see the difference that recoil makes in hit rates and through that- success rates on animals. Recoil is not your friend.

 

[SouthPaw]

Keep the 6.5cm barrel, run this 102g Apex at 3100fps. With a .24 G7 BC and that velocity, the ballistics are solid and recoil will be 6mm CM equivalent being a light 102g. Not much info on terminal performance yet but being a tipped hollow point it's probably equivalent to the LRX or maybe the Cutting Edge lazer if the petals do fragment.

Afterburner .264" (6.5mm) - 102 gr | APEX OUTDOORS

.264" (6.5mm) Caliber, 1:8.6" Min Twist Rate, 102 Grain, Afterburner, 50 Count

www.apex-outdoors.com

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

Well, I can’t find much info about them. One, it’s highly improbable that the 113gr has a .585 bc. Two, I would need to see legitimate terminal ballistics testing in properly calibrated 10% organic gel at high, mid, and low impact velocities. But there is no magic here, monos- all of them create relatively narrow, deep penetrating wounds compared to lead core fragmenting projectiles.

I have some of these coming to compare against the 127 LRX. Maybe I can figure out how to make some gel blocks. They sure look long enough to have the claimed BC. Currently having Shaen cut and thread my Fieldcraft from 21" down to 18" for running suppressed, so that will be the test rifle.

 

[sndmn11]

A 112gr Barnes MatchBurner (.624 G1) at 2,900fps is a 91% hit rate at 400y-
View attachment 484235







147gr ELD-M at 3,240fps MV (26Nos) has a 96% hit rate-
View attachment 484238

Worth noting that 5% is about where you start noticing differences in the field when shooting a lot. This is also keeping the rifle precision ES the same at 1moa and that’s is not reality at all.


6.5 Grendel at 2,400fps MV with 147gr ELD-M is an 85% hit rate at 400y-

View attachment 484241

So going from creed to nosler with the 147eldm Gaines 5% in hot probability.

Did it stay under the recoil threshold?