Struggling to see the point of 6.5's

[z987k]

I don’t talk about recoil because I am a wimp- I shoot magnums more than most people alive, have killed very large amounts of game with big magnums, and shoot them objectively very well. I talk about it because I constantly see the difference that recoil makes in hit rates and through that- success rates on animals. Recoil is not your friend.

I have very much noticed that with my own shooting, as the recoil goes down the accuracy goes up. My largest rifle is now a 3006 and it's not what I reach for first when hunting.

 

[Rick M.]

I mean this genuinely- I would start with what makes you happy.

Having said that, for me, I would drop to a 6CM or 22CM. You get higher MV and higher impact velocity, the same or higher hit rate, lower recoil, and because of monos and the increased impact speed, expanded diameter and wound channels will be so similar in all of them as to be indistinguishable.

What's the impact energy at 400yds for the 6CM vs the 6.5CM with say, the 90g LRX and 127g LRX respectively? No worries if you don't have the data readily available.

Edit: I found a chart from Barnes. Looks like the 6.5CM has about 100 ft.-lbs more energy, but lacks that 2200 velocity to reliably expand the bullet. However, the LRX bullets are supposed to open at lower velocities, so it's almost a wash.

Barnes chart: https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Barnes-CFR-Specs-and-Ballistics.pdf

 

[WeiserBucks]

One thing I think is worth noting at this point. OP and a few others almost universally rejected the information that was presented until Form chimed in, with the same information.

Soooooo, everything we said was bullshit, but when Form provides the same information in a different layout it's not.

 

[JakeSCH]

Apparently some people struggle with the idea that a person can ask an honest question without already having their mind made up. Probably projecting.

I'd still like to hear more about the 6.5 PRC. I've essentially ruled out the CM by now and the thread was never about the CM specifically. It was about 6.5 bore cartridges vs. 7's and others.

I'm in the same boat in CA and primarily shoot mono's, so for me personally the extra recoil is worth the extra velocity required to improve the terminal performance of mono's. I do have a 6.5 PRC and push the 127 LRX at 3300 fps and the 124 hammer at 3400 fps...or you could push the 85 gr ones near 4000 fps.

My question is whether your not you have a magnum bolt face? If not, I wouldn't bother entertaining the PRC.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I'm in the same boat in CA and primarily shoot mono's, so for me personally the extra recoil is worth the extra velocity required to improve the terminal performance of mono's. I do have a 6.5 PRC and push the 127 LRX at 3300 fps and the 124 hammer at 3400 fps...or you could push the 85 gr ones near 4000 fps.

My question is whether your not you have a magnum bolt face? If not, I wouldn't bother entertaining the PRC.

I think his rifle has an interchangeable bolt head, so he could go either way.

 

[Newtosavage]

I'm in the same boat in CA and primarily shoot mono's, so for me personally the extra recoil is worth the extra velocity required to improve the terminal performance of mono's. I do have a 6.5 PRC and push the 127 LRX at 3300 fps and the 124 hammer at 3400 fps...or you could push the 85 gr ones near 4000 fps.

My question is whether your not you have a magnum bolt face? If not, I wouldn't bother entertaining the PRC.

It’s a savage action so bold head swaps are simple. 127 lrx’s at 3300 sound intriguing. Thanks

 

[Newtosavage]

One thing I think is worth noting at this point. OP and a few others almost universally rejected the information that was presented until Form chimed in, with the same information.

Soooooo, everything we said was bullshit, but when Form provides the same information in a different layout it's not.

Sorry you feel that way. Not intentional if it is the case. Feel free to provide examples to illustrate your point though.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Sorry you feel that way. Not intentional if it is the case. Feel free to provide examples to illustrate your point though.

The last couple hundred posts should suffice as an example.

 

[Newtosavage]

The last couple hundred posts should suffice as an example.

Nope. You made the accusation so you need to be more specific or you’ll risk looking like you’re just envious of form.

 

[Formidilosus]

So going from creed to nosler with the 147eldm Gaines 5% in hot probability.

Correct. BC matters much more than MV.

Did it stay under the recoil threshold?

No. The 26 Nosler is over 30ft-lbs of recoil in an 8lb rifle. Where recoil effects start being really noticeable on hit rates in the field is around 12-14ft-lbs.

 

[Formidilosus]

What's the impact energy at 400yds for the 6CM vs the 6.5CM with say, the 90g LRX and 127g LRX respectively? No worries if you don't have the data readily available.

Edit: I found a chart from Barnes. Looks like the 6.5CM has about 100 ft.-lbs more energy, but lacks that 2200 velocity to reliably expand the bullet. However, the LRX bullets are supposed to open at lower velocities, so it's almost a wash.

Barnes chart: https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Barnes-CFR-Specs-and-Ballistics.pdf

You found the answer, but I can not stress enough that ft-lbs of energy has zero relevancy to terminal ballistics. It’s tells you absolutely nothing about what a bullet will do in tissue.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Nope. You made the accusation so you need to be more specific or you’ll risk looking like you’re just envious of form.

I'm not envious of anyone, what do I have to risk? Several members and I told you that BC in a 6.5 was often better than a 7-08 or 284 win given similar velocity/bullet weight and that quality ammo availability was an advantage. Low recoil and good killing ability was also discussed. I'm not going to go back through the thread you started to demonstrate that fact.

 

[Rick M.]

You found the answer, but I can not stress enough that ft-lbs of energy has zero relevancy to terminal ballistics. It’s tells you absolutely nothing about what a bullet will do in tissue.

Perhaps I need to be educated on that. I've always read that a minimum of 1500 ft-lbs is needed for elk, and around 1000 ft-lbs. Is this not the case?

 

[Huntr]

What's the impact energy at 400yds for the 6CM vs the 6.5CM with say, the 90g LRX and 127g LRX respectively? No worries if you don't have the data readily available.

Edit: I found a chart from Barnes. Looks like the 6.5CM has about 100 ft.-lbs more energy, but lacks that 2200 velocity to reliably expand the bullet. However, the LRX bullets are supposed to open at lower velocities, so it's almost a wash.

Barnes chart: https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Barnes-CFR-Specs-and-Ballistics.pdf

I have a 7mm 139gr LRX from an Alaskan moose that barely expanded with an impact velocity of around 1950 fps, so dont believe everyrhing you read.

 

[Formidilosus]

Perhaps I need to be educated on that. I've always read that a minimum of 1500 ft-lbs is needed for elk, and around 1000 ft-lbs. Is this not the case?

Find the “223 for deer, elk, bear, and moose” thread. Read it in its entirety. There is a lot of information about how bullet destroy tissue and kill.

 

[Rick M.]

Find the “223 for deer, elk, bear, and moose” thread. Read it in its entirety. There is a lot of information about how bullet destroy tissue and kill.

Holy smokes! 128 pages!! I thought the "creepy experienced in the backcountry" was heavy reading. I'll check it out.

 

[Formidilosus]

I have a 7mm 139gr LRX from an Alaskan moose that barely expanded with an impact velocity of around 1950 fps, so dont believe everyrhing you read.

Yes. People should understand two things about “expansion”. First, Barnes and most manufacturers consider caliber size expansion “expansion”. That literally means the nose barely opened to .284 from a .284 bullet. Second, when you pull a picture perfect mushroomed bullet out of an animal, that is the maximum size that bullet achieved, and only did so because it met enough resistance to open and stop it- they don’t look like that going through a chest cavity.

What that mean sis that for what almost anyone would consider “acceptable expansion” keep the monos well above 2,000fps impact, and more like 2,200fps plus. The more I see of them at low velocity, they higher that number is going for me- I want 2,400fps impact to feel comfortable with a mono such as Barnes, E-Tip, etc.

 

[Axlrod]

I don’t talk about recoil because I am a wimp- I shoot magnums more than most people alive, have killed very large amounts of game with big magnums, and shoot them objectively very well. I talk about it because I constantly see the difference that recoil makes in hit rates and through that- success rates on animals. Recoil is not your friend.

Correct. BC matters much more than MV.




No. The 26 Nosler is over 30ft-lbs of recoil in an 8lb rifle. Where recoil effects start being really noticeable on hit rates in the field is around 12-14ft-lbs.

In your experience, with reduced recoil, what effect does a muzzle break or suppressor have on hit rates?

 

[280Ackley]

Holy smokes! 128 pages!! I thought the "creepy experienced in the backcountry" was heavy reading. I'll check it out.

Don’t start unless you have about $2K to spend on a new Tikka, SWFA and a bunch of 77TMK’s!!!

 

[MattB]

I'm struggling to see the point of offering an opinion to someone who already knows everything.

A very wise man once said something to the effect of “it’s what you learn after you know it all that counts.”